model T starter turns the wrong way

[bobby simmons]

1923 model T starter turns the wrong way

[Steven Meixner]

I'm going to follow this. I've never heard of a reverse rotation starter for a T. Dual engine boat if it was 40 years newer.

[Mark Gregush]

Didn't you ask this question on the Model T Ford Club of America site and got all kinds of responses? If so, as I recall the starter was rebuilt by someone a while back. In any case, why not just get another starter or fix the one you have. 

Starters don't care if positive or negative ground, they turn the same way they were made to turn. If it is turning the wrong direction, someone found and fitted some weird windings. The only way to fix what you have, would be to install or have installed new field coil windings. Not something most home shops can do without some specialized tools/equipment. 

[Oldtech]

As I recall the brushes are in the end cap. if the cap is installed incorrectly, i.e 1/4 turn out, wouldn't this cause reverse rotation. Just a thought

[Mark Gregush]

2 hours ago, Oldtech said:

As I recall the brushes are in the end cap. if the cap is installed incorrectly, i.e 1/4 turn out, wouldn't this cause reverse rotation. Just a thought

The brush holder is riveted to the end cap and its location is set by the terminal bolt. Other than the wrong field windings being used, the other could be the wires are switched around. 

[Fordy]

you have 2 x brushes off the fields that are 2 pairs in series and linked to the main stud. You also have 2 brushes to the armature. the brushes for each need to be 180 degrees apart - so field brushes are at 90 degrees to armature. One pair of brushes is grounded, and one is not - possibly you have them on the wrong way? I cannot remember if it's the field or armature that gets the grounded brushes, but I think it's the armature. Either way I have a pile of overhauled T starters here in Australia, but they are a long way from you!

Steve

[Mark Gregush]

When applying power to the starter, looking at the saft end, which way does it turn, should be counterclockwise? If it turns clockwise, your best bet at this point might be to get a different starter. They are not rare or hard to find. 

Here is one on eBay, if nothing else, you can compare it to what you have. Such as does the bendix match what is shown?

Model T Ford Starter 6 Volt Rebuilt Complete Ready To Install | eBay

You Tube video about rebuilding the starter, might help:

 

Edited February 17 by Mark Gregush
Added info. (see edit history)

[Frank DuVal]

Starter (and most DC motors) rotation is determined by the relative electromagnetic fields of the field and armature. Simply reverse the armature to field lead wiring. 

Edited February 18 by Frank DuVal (see edit history)

[Mark Gregush]

Repairing a Common Model T Starter Problem by Ron Patterson – Model T Ford Fix

 

Edited February 19 by Mark Gregush (see edit history)

[60FlatTop]

On 2/17/2024 at 3:26 AM, Fordy said:

Either way I have a pile of overhauled T starters here in Australia, but they are a long way from you!

Probably one of those southern hemisphere starters is the reason for the whole problem. I thought all the stuff down there was upside down.

 

And you have to be careful about those hemispheres. There are four of them, you know.

[human-potato_hybrid]

Reverse the polarity of the field windings without changing the armature setup, or vice versa, and you will correct this issue.

[Mark Gregush]

22 hours ago, human-potato_hybrid said:

Reverse the polarity of the field windings without changing the armature setup, or vice versa, and you will correct this issue.

Reversing the polarity is for a generator to realign the residual magnetism when changing the ground. Starters like used in the Model T or A, don't care what way the current flows, they still turn the same direction as built. There are 4 brushes used, two receive power from the battery and 2 are return path, grounded. Pretty sure if the pigtails were mounted to the grounded brush's, the motor would not even turn, just a direct short through the field windings to ground with power bypassing the armature.  

 

[Frank DuVal]

Mark, I said, and Human Potato repeated, to change the polarity of the field windings with regard to the armature windings. This is how DC machines work. The magnetic field relation between the armature and field determines the direction the armature turns.

 

Reverse the wires to the starter, no rotation change, as the relationship of the armature to field has not changed. Reverse just the field connections, then the rotation is the other way! Or vice versa, reverse just the armature wires.

 

In your picture, that would be ground the two armature brushes marked "pigtails" and connect the leads from the field coils to the brushes currently grounded in the picture. That would reverse the magnetic field of the armature.😉

 

🛠️🛠️

[ramair]

I hope that this thread will help someone in the future, but I doubt it will help the OP, as he has not viewed any of this since last Saturday.  I believe he joined, posted twice and now it’s just “crickets”

[human-potato_hybrid]

13 hours ago, ramair said:

I hope that this thread will help someone in the future, but I doubt it will help the OP, as he has not viewed any of this since last Saturday.  I believe he joined, posted twice and now it’s just “crickets”

Hopefully this will help someone in 2037 😉

Edited February 23 by human-potato_hybrid (see edit history)