Mid 80s vs early 90s Rivieras

[Kink56]

I currently have a 1992 Riviera. 3800 Series I engine, standard suspension (wish it had the GranTouring option). Has anyone here owned or own both say a 1982-1985 Riviera with the Oldsmobile 307 5.0 130-140 hp engine AND a 1991-1993 Riviera with its 170 hp engine? If so, how do they compare as far as freeway and mountain acceleration, handling, comfort and ride?  I have had 3 1996 Series II Supercharged Rivs, miss their performance. But I have other big 1994-96 GM cars with LT-1s to satisfy my need for freeway fliers.  I also owned a 1990 Brougham with the 5.7 and towing package. It was beautiful, but a dog on the highway compared to my 1994-96 Roadmasters. I kind of expect even LESS from a Riv with the 5.0 Olds to tell you the truth. Hopefully ride and comfort will be enough to make them enjoyable. 

[dship]

I owned a '85 Riviera with the anemic 307 Olds V8 at the same time that I owned a '92 Riviera with the 3800 naturally aspirated pre-Series I V6.  Even though the 307 Olds had 8 cylinders, the '92 was obviously peppier with an electronic overdrive tranny.  The '92 had better response in each of the categories you've mentioned.

 

BTY, my '91 Reatta came standard with the "Sport-FE3" suspension (Grand Touring).  It can be a little stiff verses the "Soft Ride-FE1" suspension on my '92.  

[Kink56]

Thank you. This is exactly the input I was looking for. I see a lot of praise on the 1979-1985 Rivieras. So I was hoping for AT LEAST better ride, comfort and handing. I had a 1970 Electra Custom with its 455 engine and 2:56 rear gears. My 1994 Roadmaster with the LT1 and also 2:56 rear gears eats the Electra alive. The fastest 100% stock car I have ever owned was a 2001 Eldorado ETC. I have had 6 Northstar cars in my life. I decided to quit while I was ahead. Don't want to encounter the head bolt pulling problem. ALL except one of mine leaked oil. The one that didn't was a 1996 DeVille with 250,000 miles. Dry as a bone underneath when I sold it. But DAMN, I LOVE that generation of Eldorado. 

 

I believe the pre Series I last year was 1990. The Series I ran from 1991-1995. In 1995 the naturally aspirated 3800 in the Riviera was the Series II, but the Supercharged version was still a Series I. In 1996 either version was a Series II. 

Edited December 16, 2023 by Kink56 (see edit history)

[RivNut]

In the past I’ve had a few of the 5.0 liter olds powered Rivieras - two 1983 Twentieth Anniversary cars, an 84 convertible, and an 85 coupe - and a 1993 and currently 1990. I liked the ride of the bigger cars but hated their (lack of) performance.  The 90 and the 93 are both much more drivable.  I took the 1985 to Harrisburg and we decided to take the scenic way back to Kansas through West Virginia.  I would have sold it for bus transportation home after going through the mountains.  The 1993 went with us to Colorado Springs and did fine. The 1990 went to Chicago and through the Ozark Mountains to Branson and did fine.  I had a 1995 that had the supercharged V6 and it was the best of all.  But none compared to my 1994 Roadmaster Wagon with its LT1 ‘Vette engine.  IF I had the funds and space (and permission) I would look for a 6.6 liter Olds like was used in the Pontiac Trans Am (remember Smoky and the Bandit) and put it into an 84/85 Riviera.

[Pat Curran]

Had an Olds 307 in a 1985 Cutlass.  It was leisurely at best but adequate. Owned many 3.8’s in my life but the supercharged Series II in my 1997 Riviera was the best.  I wouldn’t mind another.

Had a 4.0 Northstar in a new 1996 Aurora (although it was never advertised as a Northstar but was a 4.0 version), it used a quart of oil every 1,200 miles.  I dumped it and went back to a 3800.  Never again considered a Northstar.

Edited December 16, 2023 by Pat Curran (see edit history)

[Kink56]

Well that pretty much tells me I would NOT enjoy having one. Thank you!

 

I have also had a 63, but I do not like the Dynaflow. Had a 67 GS and LOVED it. Also had a 1971, and loved it too. I am currently enjoying my 1992. It has the wire caps. I am looking for a really nice set of the Aluminum turbine style wheels for it. 

[Kink56]

Four of my Northstars were the 4.0 Auroras. One 98 Autobahn and the others were 1999 Autobahns. LOVE THE HECK OUT OF THEM! None of my Northstars used oil. I changed oil every 3000 miles. Tell you what, they performed better and handled better than my 3 1996 Supercharged Rivieras. But both the Rivs and Auroras felt so solid, like they were made of a solid tube of steel. The suspension was firmer on the Autobahns than the Rivieras though. The first thing I do whenever I get a late 90s or newer GM is flush out the DexCool and put Prestone universal long life coolant.  I also did this for my friend. Her DexCool was seeping out of the o-rings in the crossover tubes. I change to Prestone yellow coolant and the seeping IMMEDIATELY stopped. You might as well put orange Jello in your radiator as DexCool. 

[RivNut]

19 minutes ago, Kink56 said:

Well that pretty much tells me I would NOT enjoy having one. Thank you!

 

I have also had a 63, but I do not like the Dynaflow. Had a 67 GS and LOVED it. Also had a 1971, and loved it too. I am currently enjoying my 1992. It has the wire caps. I am looking for a really nice set of the Aluminum turbine style wheels for it. 

The Dynaflow is a good transmission but it does have parasitic power loss and will leak. I parked over a drip pan with kitty litter in it and would clean it about once a year.  I drove my 63 as a daily driver for 15 years and loved it. It got retired because of 180k+ miles, bad brakes and leaking exhaust.  But it was still a great car.  Loved that Dynaflow hum.  Can’t wait to get it back on the road again, but gotta finish the 64 first. 

[Kink56]

If I had the dough, I would have a 1964, 1966 GS and a 1970 Riviera each, right now. 

[RivNut]

27 minutes ago, Kink56 said:

Well that pretty much tells me I would NOT enjoy having one. Thank you!

 

I have also had a 63, but I do not like the Dynaflow. Had a 67 GS and LOVED it. Also had a 1971, and loved it too. I am currently enjoying my 1992. It has the wire caps. I am looking for a really nice set of the Aluminum turbine style wheels for it. 

A friend of mine who lives in Topeka has a 1985 Cadillac.  He loves the “Flatlander” as he calls it but doesn’t venture into the hills with it.  

 

I have a really nice set of the aluminum turbine wheels for sale with new Cooper radials on them.  They come with a 1990 Riviera Gold Package attached to them.  1st in class at the 2018 ROA meet. 

 

[Kink56]

To tell you the truth, I consider my former 1990 Brougham D'Elegance with the Chevy 5.7 L05 engine AND my current 1992 Riviera flatlander cars. I am spoiled with my Fleetwood and Roadmaster LT-1 cars that can pass 7% grades in a single bound, and enter freeway on ramps at 90 mph and drop in merging traffic like a ghost. My measure of a car is how it can get 900 miles behind it, from Tucson to Denver in under 14 hours comfortably. And I have to stop to pee every 2 hours! 

[Kink56]

Nice 1990. I have no idea what the attraction is with the wire hubcaps on so many Buicks and Cadillacs in the 80s and 90s. They really add to the "old lady" aura. Those turbines look sweet. I think Skylark 15" road wheels would look good too. But many caution against 114.3 mm wheels on a 115 mm bolt pattern, even though they fit fine. I guess the stress could cause the studs to snap. 

[RivNut]

33 minutes ago, Kink56 said:

Nice 1990. I have no idea what the attraction is with the wire hubcaps on so many Buicks and Cadillacs in the 80s and 90s. They really add to the "old lady" aura. Those turbines look sweet. I think Skylark 15" road wheels would look good too. But many caution against 114.3 mm wheels on a 115 mm bolt pattern, even though they fit fine. I guess the stress could cause the studs to snap. 

The biggest difference there is the offset. Skylark Road wheels are for RWD cars, the 114.3 wheels are for FWD.

[dship]

I've owned two Cadillacs with the NorthStar 4.6V8 engine; a 1999 ETC (sold it and bought my 1991 Reatta) and my current 2000 ESC.  I have to admit I've never had any oil or head gasket issues with either Caddy.  Now that I no longer own a Riviera, I plan to drive my 2000 Eldorado to the 2024 ROA National in KY.  Maybe I can slip it in with the 6th or possibly the 8th gen Rivieras!

[NTX5467]

I always respected the Olds 350 V-8s (1972 and thereabouts) as great engines.  Better in many respects than the Chevy 350 everybody drooled over.  But the 307 version of that engine family needed lots of help to get to the 160s in horsepower, it seems.  I was appalled at how many vacuum lines and such there were on the engine!  Only Fords of the time could compete in that respect.  Then I drove a middle 1980s Buick Estate Wagon with the Olds 307.  With only me in the car, I accelerated up an Interstate grade, starting at 65mph at WOT.  Heard the secondaries kick in, but no increase in speed.  I thought "This car is gutless now, but what about with 6 passengers, their gear, and a 1000 lb travel trailer on the back, ALL within the maximum GM recommendations!  Yikes!  The Chevy 305 4bbl would probably have performed better, by comparison.

 

I never did hear of anybody re-tuing the motor as to different emissions calibrations.  That customer demographic would probably not have considered that, but it HAD to have helped that poor engine.  Better to put it out of its misery (even in the Cutlass 4-4-2 and its "garbage truck" shifter and put a good-running Olds 350 or 403 in its place.

 

I have a 2005 Impala with the Chevy 3.4L V-6 and a 2005 LeSabre Limited with the normal 3800 II V-6.  The engines are 20 horsepower apart, with the Chevy at 180 and the Buick at 200.  Same 2.84 drive ratio.  The LeSabre might be 100 lbs heavier, but its "Buick torque" is immediately-available off-idle and makes the car move effortlessly getting up to speed from idle.  No issue with crusing at 80mph (which is 2100rpm in OD), either.  Harkens back to when engines were larger and cars were heavier.

 

The 2005 Impala, by comparison, its throttle response is more linear in feel.  It takes "throttle" to move it down the road in OD.  Not a slouch at WOT, just that the Buick V-6 feels like a rocket in comparison.  I'm suspecting the 3800 I motor might still run nicer than the Chevy 3.4, though.

 

So, while I would have liked for a Riv to have the 307 (before I drove a 307 Olds V-8 car), the little Buick 3800 can actually have better driving dynamics in the real world just because of how it comes off-idle eagerly.  The Olds 403 was a facatory option in later 1970s Toronados.  Yet it seems that few people considered that one of the "should be" best high-performance fwd cars of that era.

 

Happy Holidays!

NTX5467 

Edited December 17, 2023 by NTX5467 (see edit history)

[XframeFX]

On 12/16/2023 at 4:06 PM, RivNut said:

But none compared to my 1994 Roadmaster Wagon with its LT1 ‘Vette engine.

1970 was the end of high compression engines in American cars with a few Mopar and Ford exceptions for a last hoorah in 1971 (Boss Mustang 351C).

So, for the remainder of the '70s, they were 'Duds". But there's a secret unknown to me until now? 1974 Roadmaster LT1 what?

9.0 : 1 compression ratio in 1974?

Googled just now:

https://www.curbsideclassic.com/curbside-classics-american/curbside-classic-1974-buick-estate-wagon-hold-the-fake-wood-please/

 

https://www.motortrend.com/features/buick-roadmaster-b-body-lt1-engine-future-classic/#:~:text=Obviously%2C you'll want the,package was code for performance.

 

Flash forward to the late 80s and early 90s, I've noticed Roadmaster wagons at self serve wrecking yards in both Calgary and Edmonton with TPI induction SBC engines. I briefly considered the TPI but no, best to keep life simple.

 

MERRY CHRISTMAS!

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 23, 2023 by XframeFX (see edit history)

[Kink56]

You do not want the L05, you want the 1994-96 LT-1. 

[RivNut]

The 94 - 96 Buick Roadmaster and Chevy Caprice wagons had a detuned LT1 ‘Vette engine rated at 260 HP.  If you can find one with the towing package, you’ll find auxiliary oil cooler, dual cooling fans - one electric, one mechanical - transmission cooler, dual exhausts with stainless pipes, a posi rear end, and with the right trailer hitch, a towing capacity of 7,000 lbs.  If it had not have been for a bunch of rust issues, I’d still have mine.  Kind of like driving your living room couch down the highway. 

[Pat Curran]

Don’t forget that Pontiac created some magic with the SD455 in 1973 and 1974.  It was the last hurrah!

[RivNut]

1 hour ago, Pat Curran said:

Don’t forget that Pontiac created some magic with the SD455 in 1973 and 1974.  It was the last hurrah!

I had a ‘73 Pontiac Grand Am around 86 or 87.  I can remember the date because my daughter graduated in 87.  A few years later we were talking about cars we still wished that we had. She brought up the Grand Am. I asked her why and she told me “It was the fastest car at Northwest High School.”  Glad I didn’t know at the time.  
 

The Grand Am was quite a car. Lemans body, Grand Prix interior, and 455 Pontiac power.

[EmTee]

I would love to have a '73 Grand Am.  The SD-455 was originally planned to be available in the Grand Am, however, plans changed... 

[Pat Curran]

The original Grand Am was Pontiac’s first attempt at a Euro car.  I liked it!