what car is this?

[ackpht]

From the family archives, some relation to my mother's mother's mother. Can anyone identify the car? It looks like it has attachment points for a horse's harness- just in case ?

 

Dan Patterson

[Leif Holmberg]

Similar front suspension as Packard but the rest is not right. https://education.nationalgeographic.org/resource/automobile/

[Ariejan NL]

Many early makes had a similar arrangement of transversal springs, differing in detail. This car seems to fit best with a National Electric road wagon style H of 1901. Small differences are in the dashboard (flat) and the lamp shape (see uploaded folder page), but the springing system and other details do match.

[jp1gt]

I would put my money on the Packard. In those days probably lots of different ideas tested.

[Gunsmoke]

So that would be your Great Grandmother's friend (I'd guess Anne, Mary, Elizabeth, Susan or Lillian!) A wonderful photo of a likely rare early and high end car. it will be interesting to see if one survives.

[arcticbuicks]

that is quite the front axle and suspension........the springs and frame to hold spring shackles ......very interesting ........it looks like it would out handle a rock climbing lifted jeep

[nzcarnerd]

It looks as if the front axle is centre pivot. None of the possibilities offered so far have that.

[nzcarnerd]

I tidied the photo a little. When I saved it to file it came up with a caption beginning 'coxcar...'. I don't think there was a Cox electric car but I think there is a modern company involved.

 

 

[E_Johnson]

It's actually an 1899 or 1900 Waverley Electric and I believe the model/body style is a stanhope due to the folding top and the full seatback cushion. The original factory hard rubber tired wheels have been cut down and retrofitted with pneumatic tires so the car was most likely a few years old when the photo was taken.

My father restored and owns a 1900 Waverley Electric Model 8 "Dos-a-dos" and he has 1899 and 1900 Waverley sales catalogs and period photos of 1899/1900 Waverleys.  When I see him tomorrow, I'll see if I can pinpoint the model number/body style of the car in the photo.

Below is a cropped photo taken at a similar angle of the front of my father's 1900 Waverley.  I apologize for not posting full photos of the car but my father doesn't want photos of it floating around on the internet.

There are two surviving 1899 Waverley Electrics: a runabout/Dos-dos in the possession of the Indianapolis Motor Speedway Museum and a stanhope in the possession of the Auburn-Cord-Duesenberg Museum in Auburn, Indiana.  I have seen these cars in person and also have numerous photos.

There are two surviving 1900 Waverley Electrics, both Model 8 Dos-a-dos, here in the Twin Cities in Minnesota.  The aforementioned one owned by my father (it was orginally owned by Minneapolis realtor Samuel S. Thorpe) and the other which was originally owned by St. Paul confectioner J. George Smith who had the foresight to donate his Waverley to Minnesota Historical Society in 1911.

Also worth mentioning, the first Minneapolis resident to own a commercially produced automobile was newspaper publisher Swan J. Turnblad.  He owned an 1899 Waverley Electric runabout (Dos-a-dos) - he took delivery of the car in early 1900.

To the untrained eye, 1901 National Electrics may be confused with 1899/1900 Waverley Electrics.  National Electrics were manufactured by the National Automobile and Electric Co. and are almost clones of Waverley Electrics.   L. S. Dow and Philip Goetz, who founded National Automobile and Electric Co., were previously with the bicycle company that produced Waverley Electrics.

 

Edited November 25, 2023 by E_Johnson
grammar (see edit history)

[ackpht]

Wow- info jackpot! Hope your father enjoys the photo.

 

From the details of the suspension and wheels I'd say the ID as a Waverley Electric is hard to dispute, unless National copied little details like the pinstriping. The vintage is appropriate. I hadn't known about retrofitting hard-rubber wheels with pneumatic tires, but I guess when they became available, a less-jiggly ride was hard to pass up. Comparing the two I noticed the linkage that "steers" the headlight- the cars in the photos are a little different there, and the car in my ancestor's photo has no fenders- though those don't suggest a different model. 

 

"Cox" was my ancestor's surname which is why I tacked it onto the filename.

 

Now I'm wondering- where do you plug in an electric car in 1905?

 

Dan Patterson

Edited November 24, 2023 by ackpht (see edit history)

[E_Johnson]

Here is more information:

The car is a 1900 Waverley Electric, Model 2 Run-about.  As I posted earlier, the original wheels have been cut down and retrofitted with pneumatic tires.

Attached are pages from a 1900 Waverley Electric Vehicle sales catalog showing the Model 2 Runabout as well as the "Facts and Figures" (specifications) page.  It is a single seat, two passenger car - the driver and one passenger.

My father and I ruled out 1899 because the Model 2 Runabout is not pictured or listed in the 1899 sales catalog.  It's also not listed ord picture in an earlier edition of the 1900 catalog but it is listed in a later edition of the 1900 catalog which I have posted.

Per the catalog, the cars came with wood wheels with hard rubber tires as standard.  Buyers could also order the cars with wire wheels and pneumatic tires.  (The 1899 Waverleys in Auburn and Indianapolis, Indiana have wire wheels and their original, tubeless pneumatic tires.)

I also included two pages showing the Model 8 Dos-a-dos which is the model my father owns.  Note that one is shown with wooden wheels and fenders like my father's car while the other has wire wheels and pneumatic tires and no fenders.  The Model 8 Dos-a-dos is a two seat, four passenger car.  Dos-a-dos is French for "back-to-back."  The two passengers in the back seat face rearward and so they are back-to-back to the driver and front passenger and all four share the same back rest.  The back seat passengers rest their feet on a tailgate which can be closed and locked when not in use.

The cars could be ordered with either leather or wool upholstery.  The car in your photo has leather upholstery. My father's car has leather upholstery while its twin sister, which is owned by the Minnesota Historical Society, has its original wool upholstery. 

The cyclops headlamps on Waverleys are stationary and are not connected to the steering mechanism.  What you are probably looking at on the Cox's car is possibly the wiring loom/conduit for the headlamp.  On my father's car, the headlamp wires are routed differently - they go through the floor and lie in a groove on the top side of the floorboard and are covered by the wool floor mat.  Also, the tiller bracket on my father's car is nickel plated but the portion that can be seen below the floorboard was originally painted black over the plating.  However, my father did not paint it and that's why it highly visible in the photo while in your photo, it is black so it blends into the backgroud.

Although the 1901 National Electrics are very similar and share many design elements as 1899-1900 Waverley Electrics, National Electrics do not have the unique, pivoting front axle like Waverleys do.

Edited November 25, 2023 by E_Johnson
spelling and grammar (see edit history)

[E_Johnson]

Here's a photo of William E. Metzger and his wife in a highly decorated 1900 Waverley Model 2 runabout, same model as in your photo.

William Metzger was an early automotive pioneer in Detroit.  He originally sold bicycles and then quit that endeavor to sell Waverley Electric automobiles and was involved with Oldsmobile, Cadillac, Northern Manufacturing, E-M-F, etc.

You can read about him here (although take it with a grain of salt because some of the dates aren't 100% accurated):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_E._Metzger
 

[ackpht]

The photo of your father's car shows a link running from one end of the tie rod to a pivot to another link that runs to the bottom of the shaft holding the lamp. If that's not for turning the lamp with the front wheels it certainly looks like it. If not, what is it for? The Cox car has a similar link running to one end of the tie rod but the other connections appear to be different.

[E_Johnson]

That is the bottom of tiller bracket, pitman arm and drag link on the driver's side of the car for the steering system.  The headlamp is not connected to the steering system - it is stationary and mounted on a forged bracket.

Below is photo of the of the front axle showing the above as well as the driver's compartment showing the nickel-plated tiller and tiller bracket.  The bottom portion of the tiller bracket on the underside of the floorboard was originally painted black over the nickel plating but my father left it unpainted.

[Oldtech]

What does it use for Batteries? I'm guessing it had an array of 6 volts originally. 

[ackpht]

Aha! I stand corrected, sir. I hadn't thought of that.

 

The angle of the photos makes it look like it runs up to the lamp. So maybe Tucker did invent the idea...