Court Ordered Title Transfers (Pennsylvania)

[human-potato_hybrid]

Have any Pennsylvanians used this process to title a car that could otherwise not be titled? If so, what was your circumstances and the outcome?

 

I have such a situation with one of my project cars. For those unaware, Pennsylvania requires notarized title transfers and on top of that there is no bonded title process, so there are plenty of cars floating around with no titles and this is the only recourse to defective or missing titles aside from out-of-state titling.

Edited October 24, 2023 by human-potato_hybrid (see edit history)

[Steve Moskowitz]

There is an attorney in Harrisburg area, Bryan Shook who specializes in collectible cars.  He has helped a lot of people get titles.  He is an AACA member.

[60FlatTop]

I bought a car in Pennsylvania in January 2023. It was just a casual sale, no dealer. I had it picked up and shipped to New York. Normally I would just tell the owner to sign the title and put it in the glove box. The seller clued me in. He had to have the title notarized in PA with the transfer to me. Otherwise I would probably still be jumping hoops.

 

Point 2, you will frequently see my strong recommendation to immediately tale the steps to transfer legal ownership by actually licensing your acquisition as soon as you get it. Not 10 tens after investment of time and money.

I wonder what the total value of the open titled, semi-completed projects is worldwide. And who owns them.

[tenugent]

I bought a riviera from a dealer in Penn.with signed tittle,here in Illinois they wouldn't let me transfer it in my name without bill of sail?

[greenie]

Yep, Pennsylvania titles require careful handling, or you could be ship out of luck. 

[ILIKECARS53]

Yes PA is not a very easy state to register out of state autos either daily driver or collectible.  Be very careful.  It maybe worth it to seek professional help before you get started.

Good luck.

[human-potato_hybrid]

13 hours ago, tenugent said:

I bought a riviera from a dealer in Penn.with signed tittle,here in Illinois they wouldn't let me transfer it in my name without bill of sail?

11 hours ago, ILIKECARS53 said:

Yes PA is not a very easy state to register out of state autos either daily driver or collectible.  Be very careful.  It maybe worth it to seek professional help before you get started.

Good luck.

• For transferring a title INTO Pennsylvania, you only need to do the same as needed to transfer the title in its own state. Normally this is just you both name and sign, then date, and odo. PA will accept any title that is completed properly from another state.
• For titling IN or OUT OF Pennsylvania, the bare minimum is that the seller must go to a notary and in the presence of the notary fill out the whole title including writing the buyers name, then it must be notarized. The only part that can be done later is the buyer signing the title. This is so buyer and seller need not be in the same physical location. However, the most common thing if you are picking the car up in person is to go to the notary together and fill out the whole thing there: the notary will help you. If selling a car from the estate, you must bring a notarized copy of the short certificate with you to notarize the title and provide one to the buyer that they will submit with the title application, otherwise the DMV will not accept the title.

So for normal sales where you have a title, it's not too difficult as long as you know what you're doing. Anyone that doesn't accept a title after doing the above has their head up their rear end. The main problem is if you either don't have a title, or only have a defective title with no way to contact the owner, there is not much recourse.

Edited October 25, 2023 by human-potato_hybrid (see edit history)

[human-potato_hybrid]

14 hours ago, 60FlatTop said:

Normally I would just tell the owner to sign the title and put it in the glove box. The seller clued me in. He had to have the title notarized in PA with the transfer to me. Otherwise I would probably still be jumping hoops.

Yup, best case you would mail it back to them, they would have to go to a notary, scratch out their first signature, re-sign it properly and notarize it, and mail it back to you.

[R Walling]

13 hours ago, ILIKECARS53 said:

Yes PA is not a very easy state to register out of state autos either daily driver or collectible.  Be very careful.  It maybe worth it to seek professional help before you get started.

Good luck.

When you state professional help, do you mean legal or medical?

[Restorer32]

18 hours ago, Steve Moskowitz said:

There is an attorney in Harrisburg area, Bryan Shook who specializes in collectible cars.  He has helped a lot of people get titles.  He is an AACA member.

He helped my Brother get a court ordered title for a 1949 Triumph convertible. Took time and money but we appreciate what he did for us

 

[Restorer32]

Figure about a year and maybe $800 to get a court ordered title in Pa.

[human-potato_hybrid]

11 hours ago, Restorer32 said:

Figure about a year and maybe $800 to get a court ordered title in Pa.

How much was lawyer fees? DIY it seems to be in the $200 range (court costs, newspaper ads, certified mail, then title fees).

[Steve S. in PA]

I have gone through the court to obtain a title here in PA at least a dozen times. I did not use a lawyer. The process is time consuming, but it is not difficult.  Basically you are challenging PennDOT to prove in court that you do not own the vehicle. They will offer to cooperate  with you if you agree to follow their procedure. Eventually you will state your case before the judge, and unless someone in the courtroom raises an objection, the judge will issue an order identifying  you as the owner of the vehicle. That court order is then submitted to PennDOT with an MV-41 application for title, and eventually you will get your title. There is a bit more involved, but that is the general process. It works.  

[Paul from PA]

Start with form DL-135 Fill it out, send $14 to the state and see what info they have on the vehicle if any. With that info go to the courthouse to set a date to hear from anyone that may come forward to claim the vehicle. Notify in writing anyone associated with the title. Post it in the local paper and law journal twice. Show up at the hearing before the judge for his verdict. It does take time and some money but it can be done I did it for a 2008 Mercedes