1930 Hudson wooden spoke wheel repairs

[timecapsule]

One of my wooden spoke wheels needs repairing on my 1930 Hudson.  Over the years most of the round wood tenons that protrudes into the steel rim have worn.  I did try driving in some steel small sliver spacers and then secured those steel spacers with epoxy but with all the forces and rotation applied to the spokes that method didn't last and the epoxy failed and the steel spacers worked themselves out after about 500  miles.

  

I'm wondering if anyone has had experience with this and found a good solution?

 

I could try JB Epoxy Putty and force it into all the cavities around the tenons, but I'm not too optimistic about that.  However I have had success with JB Epoxy Putty before, but there is a lot of forces applied to this area when driving alone on rough roads. Not to mention the moisture content of the wood changing through the 4 seasons.  

 

I may have to get serious about it and set up centring  jig and drill out the protruding wood tenons the same diameter as the opening of the steel hole and drill down into the spoke about 2 inches or so.  Then make some Hickory dowels to match the diameter and then drive them into the hole after coating them with epoxy.  I'd have to do one spoke at a time.  After the first spoke is secured, I'd have to set up a dial indicator and take a reading.  Then rotate the wheel 180 degrees and secure the rim where the reading on the dial indicated matched the first reading, before drilling the next hole.  So on and so on, in order to get the wheel true as possible.  That's a pretty serious approach and there would be no turning back.

The good news is that the spokes are all solid, and very dry, and no rot. 

[Old buicks 2]

Have the wheel rebuilt.   You are only putting a bandaid on a problem wheel.   If it collapses while you are traveling on the highway, it will be disasterous and could cost your life.  I don't know where you are located but there are several wheel rebuilders in the country that will do a good job.

[keiser31]

1 hour ago, timecapsule said:

One of my wooden spoke wheels needs repairing on my 1930 Hudson.  Over the years most of the round wood tenons that protrudes into the steel rim have worn.  I did try driving in some steel small sliver spacers and then secured those steel spacers with epoxy but with all the forces and rotation applied to the spokes that method didn't last and the epoxy failed and the steel spacers worked themselves out after about 500  miles.

  

I'm wondering if anyone has had experience with this and found a good solution?

 

I could try JB Epoxy Putty and force it into all the cavities around the tenons, but I'm not too optimistic about that.  However I have had success with JB Epoxy Putty before, but there is a lot of forces applied to this area when driving alone on rough roads. Not to mention the moisture content of the wood changing through the 4 seasons.  

 

I may have to get serious about it and set up centring  jig and drill out the protruding wood tenons the same diameter as the opening of the steel hole and drill down into the spoke about 2 inches or so.  Then make some Hickory dowels to match the diameter and then drive them into the hole after coating them with epoxy.  I'd have to do one spoke at a time.  After the first spoke is secured, I'd have to set up a dial indicator and take a reading.  Then rotate the wheel 180 degrees and secure the rim where the reading on the dial indicated matched the first reading, before drilling the next hole.  So on and so on, in order to get the wheel true as possible.  That's a pretty serious approach and there would be no turning back.

The good news is that the spokes are all solid, and very dry, and no rot. 

Try here....http://www.calimerswheelshop.com/

[Old buicks 2]

Stutzman,  Melvin    33650  Co Rd 12    Baltic, OH   43804    330-897-1391  ext 1    Amish wheelwright   I've had them rebuild about a dozen wheels for me over the years.   EXCELLENT workmanship, fast turn around and a very fair price.   You have to call them and leave a message and they will call you back.   Located about 50 miles NE of Columbus, Oh.
 

[13Caddy2]

I had the same problem with my 19 Studebaker--after trying to patch them back after 4 months--I had Stutzman make me 4 new wheels--1 month later I was back together & driving---

Edited August 28, 2023 by 13Caddy2
not finished (see edit history)

[timecapsule]

Thanks for the suggestions guys.  

[dodge28]

Keiser just gave you the answer, Calimer Wood wheel respoked mine , 1928 Dodge . Beautiful Job. 

[DFeeney]

Have you posted on the AACA forum Hudson page or the Hudson club forum page?  I would think you could find a good used one. 

[timecapsule]

6 hours ago, DFeeney said:

Have you posted on the AACA forum Hudson page or the Hudson club forum page?  I would think you could find a good used one. 

The 1930's were 18  in.  which narrows down the selection.  The 1930 Hudson wheels are different from the 1930 Essex wheels, which narrows it down even more.  Pictures tell many lies, so for something like wooden spoke wheels one would have to see them and check them for being true and sound.     

[Mark Gregush]

21 hours ago, timecapsule said:

The 1930's were 18  in.  which narrows down the selection.  The 1930 Hudson wheels are different from the 1930 Essex wheels, which narrows it down even more.  Pictures tell many lies, so for something like wooden spoke wheels one would have to see them and check them for being true and sound.     

Yes! Some parts are just better to buy in person. 

[Tonz]

Yes, you can repair them successfully... As long as you have no intention of driving with them!

 

My 26 Chrysler 50 with rear brakes only still had the original wheels when I got going. The rears do the drive and braking so  are under more loading than the fronts, obviously they were not safe, as matter of fact one rear wheel went dangerously wobbly after 10 miles.

Luckily a guy named Keith Wilson who lives in the next town 40 minutes away  specialises in wooden wheels and roof bows.

So I bit the bullet and had the four wheels done with new cup bolts and now drive the car feeling a much safer.

[timecapsule]

In the end, I actually did repair the wheel.  But I re-invented the construction of this wheel so now it is much much much stronger than the original method and has zero chance of changing.

It took a bit of planning and thinking and extreme caution going slow and checking and rechecking often.

What I did was reverse the fastening of the spoke to the rim by using a custom made steel peg going down into the spoke.  For the peg portion I used 1/4" bolt that was about 3 inches long and utilized the long unthreaded portion of the bolt and discarded the head and threaded portions.  I had some sleeve type spacers that had an ID that was 1/4". The OD was slightly larger than the inside diameter of the rim portion that the tenon fits in.  I then cut the spacers to match the depth of the steel portion of the rim that the tenon was in, which was about 5/16" in depth. Then I welded the unthreaded 1/4" section inside the spacer. Each peg portion was cut to about one inch long and the end of it was ground on an angle that matched the angle of a 15/64"" drill bit that I would use to drill into the spoke.   I then used my grinder to get the OD of the large portion of the peg to match the ID opening in the rim where the wood tenon used to be. Unfortunately I don't have a lathe or this process would have gone much faster.

 

I fortunately had a spare rear end for the car,  so I set it up at waist height and put the wheel on and tightened the nut.  Then I set up a dial indicator so it would give me a reading as to how true the wheel was when spun, and that was checked multiple times throughout the process.  Then with a dremel tool I cut out the wood tenon on the first spoke.  With that tenon cut out, that end of the spoke was free from the rim. 

 

I found a brass plumbing fitting with internal threads and a nipple to match so I screwed them together and pressed them into the opening where I had drilled out the tenon.  Using straightedges I tapped that fitting with a small hammer until I had the custom made drill bit guide perpendicular to the spoke both ways.  This brass fitting was used as a guide for the 15/64" drill bit to slide in and out.  I got lucky because the ID of that nipple matched the dia. of the 15/64" drill bit.  This guide made sure that I didn't wonder off even slightly with the hand held drill.  Insuring that the hole was being drilled perfectly down through the centre of the spoke.   Before drilling the hole I checked, and double checked and triple checked that the spoke was centred to the rim.  This part was critical or the wheel would have a wobble.  Then I measured the drill bit to match the length of the 1/4" portion of the peg and rapped masking tape around it to use as a depth gauge.  After drilling the hole, I drove in the peg with a hammer until it was flush with the protruding portion of the rim Then I spun the rim 180 degrees and did the same to that opposite spoke.  Insuring that the dial indicator was reading exactly the same once the spoke was free form the rim before drilling the hole.  

 

I followed this procedure for all 10 spokes and after spinning the wheel the dial indicator barely moved .001th.  Then I mig welded the end of the peg to the rim in 4 places.  Letting it cool between each weld.  

 

 

Edited November 14, 2023 by timecapsule (see edit history)

[Larry Schramm]

IMO, Fix it right and have new spokes made.  Safety should not be short cutted.

Edited December 8, 2023 by Larry Schramm (see edit history)

[timecapsule]

13 minutes ago, Larry Schramm said:

IMO, Fix it right and have new spokes made.  Safety should not be short cutted.

I agree, Safety is priority. Which is why I did it my way.  Making the wheel probably 100% stronger that a brand new wheel back in 1930.

[mikewest]

It will never fail if you dont drive it. New wheels are so cheap!

[timecapsule]

1 hour ago, mikewest said:

It will never fail if you dont drive it. New wheels are so cheap!

My car is a daily driver. Almost 365 days a year.  With the exception of when they salt the roads in the winter.  Rather than going for "cheap" wheels, I decided to go with a vastly improved, much stronger,  and much safer wheel.

 If we're talking "cheap", I would think that I probably have maybe $10 material investment, if I was to go and buy the steel that I used.  But I happened to have everything I needed.  So maybe I used a couple bucks of hydro to fire up the mig welder.

 

No disrespect to the wooden wheel replacement companies out there, but you are at the mercy of their choice of the hickory that they use for your particular wheel.  You have to trust them that the hickory is at it's moisture content of equilibrium.  If it's not dry enough, it's a recipe for disaster.  Even if the wood's moisture content is bang on, I'll guaranty that a rebuilt wheel sent to Florida, California, and the north west corner of Canada, will all end up with a different diameter of the tenon after 12 months or so.

  

I was a wood turner for several decades and I would dry fresh cut hardwood, using various methods, too involved to talk about here, but most hardwoods take at least a year to reach their moisture equilibrium, Holly for example takes at least 3 years.  What I'm considering as a custom, is that there is the possibility of oversight or cutting corners on the part of the wheel maker in order to produce prompt service.

  

I've always been of the mind, if you want something done right, do it yourself.

Edited December 8, 2023 by timecapsule (see edit history)