Coach paint material source

[Don Jr.]

Hi, Looking for a Coach paint supplier in the United States. Everything I have found is in Europe and they cannot ship to the USA. Found a few vintage Carriage builders in the US that may have a source but thought I would ask here first. Found great videos and tutorials on doing this process. Thanks.

[JFranklin]

I am not sure of the specifics you require, but I have bought coach black from different paint suppliers in Oregon.

[RansomEli]

TCP Global has a color library that includes coaches and carriages. They can mix the color desired in acrylic enamel, single stage urethane, acrylic lacquer and base coat-clear coat.

 

https://www.autocolorlibrary.com/pages/coaches-carriages

 

 

[mechanician]

I think you mean something like this:

 

http://libertyonthehudson.com/

 

no experience with them, but I have thought about trying it. Would be interested to hear how it works out. Presumably you are painting something pre ‘20s?

[Don Jr.]

Yes. Very interested in experimenting  trying the technique. Father son project. Found a guy who used General Finish Milk paint. Came out quite well. I located a buggy shop in Amish area of Penn. Trying them too. See there are several methods and paints to accomplish this. On line videos demonstrating applying it looks like a skill set you need to acquire but willing to try. The above site is about 1 hr. south of me so will try them too. Being told the Rustoleum paint just does not behave well. My first car a 1966 Mustang had that Blue paint that peeled off at the car wash. So after a pizza party  a few friends and several 6 packs we painted the car Rustoleum Blue with a black top. Just married no extra money for this but it stuck well enough to drive it for a year until I could afford a decent car. Thanks.

[George K]

Here’s a page from a 1919 book explaining automobile painting then. Ronan japanning is the only original supplier still in business. Good luck.

[Don Jr.]

Wow, thank you for this. Yes I will try them first. The forum is a great resource and appreciate it. Hope they are in the US otherwise companies will not ship to me.

[Don Jr.]

HI, contacted Ronan. Their site got me excited with their colors available.  Well it was a bust . Their tech advisor said I should  go to Kirker Products and work thru a distributor in Ohio using  their products instead. Not what I expected. Very disappointing indeed. Thought I had a winner here. Am going to contact Carriage builders next. But thanks for your help. Appreciate the help.

[jdome]

You might try " 1-SHOT " sign painter's enamel. 

[George K]

You always have to buy through a distributor. You can buy Ronan japan on Amazon or a local art supply store. 

[Don Jr.]

Yes I would but they come on very small quantities. Tomorrow I will contact another source and see what I can ascertain from them. The guy today told me if I use their Rotan Jappan brush applied paint on a panel it would not dry for several weeks or possibly a month before I could touch it or sand it for another coat. Find that hard to believe. Even if I cannot purchase paint from England possibly they can steer me to someone in the US for this.

[Don Jr.]

I was hoping that Ronan could give me some support on what I was doing. I should have suspected when the tech told me Ronan was a subsidy of Kirker paints. Yes I see I can buy on line but need help in identifying and selecting what I am buying and procedure of application would be great. Guess anytime brush painting comes up am always steered to traditional air spraying technique. Being taught the fine points of bodywork from a friend who is very accomplished at the moment. It too is an art form. He make it look easy as I watch him and his projects.  I am working on a race car body panels at the moment. I see him and he shows me what to do then I go off and work at it. We meet once a week for him to critique my progress. He said I am getting better.

[Bloo]

I looked into this 2 or 3 years ago and was hoping the situation had improved and @Don Jr. would get some better options. Apparently not. When I looked into this, there was no coach paint in the USA at all, and UK would not ship. This all sounds very familiar.

 

The coach paint you can get in the UK is still not quite traditional coach paint. The tutorials will tell you it does not quite lay down when brushed like the old stuff, but it is by far the closest thing you can get.

 

@jdome mentioned One-Shot. That is meant to be laid with a brush, but is for sign painters and as far as I know is sold only in small quantities for a high price. I do suspect it is the closest USA product to coach paint.

 

This thread has also gone off in the direction of japan colors. That might not be quite the same thing as coach painting(?). It does take forever to dry. As I understand it, paint was the biggest bottleneck in car production in the brass era, and why Ford settled on a simple black and dried it in an oven. There is something called "japan drier" (what a surprise). If I remember correctly mixing in too much degrades the quality of the job. It does speed things up. Another modern gotcha is that "japan drier" may or may not contain the same metals as it did in the teens.

 

I think the reason you probably aren't getting guidance from Ronan is that probably nobody has used japan colors that way in decades, building up colors on a panel of steel or wood and then varnishing over it. They probably literally don't know how. I'll bet the last time that was done in the US was less than 10 years after the advent of nitrocellulose lacquer. As for me, I would love to read the rest of that book @George K posted a page from.

 

On 12/18/2022 at 2:55 PM, Don Jr. said:

Being told the Rustoleum paint just does not behave well.

Spot on. It is nothing like coach paint. The coach painting methods I have seen online simply would not work with it. I have had some success brushing it, but to say it is uncooperative might be the understatement of the year. If you are going to brush it, be sure to put Penetrol and hardener in it. Penetrol so it will lay down, and hardener so you can sand it down and recoat when it inevitably does not do quite what you wanted it to. Rustoleum will lift when you recoat if there is no hardener, and they don't sell hardener.

 

@Don Jr., if you do some coach painting, please post about it and let us know if you were able to obtain appropriate supplies and how it went.

 

Edited December 20, 2022 by Bloo (see edit history)

[George K]

Real carriage painting is very labor intensive. I have done much research and also have done the work. Remember in the early days paint on an automobile was a maintenance item. Just like wooden boats. I don’t know what you’re trying to accomplish or on what period automobile. Here’s some photos out of pre 1920 painters books. 

[cxgvd]

This is the paint I use to brush on a wooden body and the associated metal parts.  Antique paints are obsolete. go modern.  I use the old time techniques, drying time, brushes et all, but with modern epoxy primers, polyester filler and not alkyd enamel but urethane alkyd.  My local Dulux store even matches the colour of the parts I give him.  The old coach or wagon painters would have been thrilled to use the modern products we have today.

 

Best of luck with your project, Gary

 

[George K]

Here’s a schedule of work circa 1920.

[Don Jr.]

Thank You. My intention is not to stir up a controversy here. Have contacted a few Carriage builders to see what they recommend. Fully understand this difficulty in obtaining paint form UK. Possibly something has changed in procuring a suitable paint. As I said I was in contact with a guy who did quite a good job using a Waterborne milk paint for his car. Came out quite nice but company he used is closing out colors I am seeking. Placed an order only to find out they did not have stock they claimed.