John DePrey Posted January 6, 2023 Share Posted January 6, 2023 2 hours ago, Axial_Flow said: Hey John Interesting observation about the lower shock mount plate. I intend on keeping this car as close to original as possible, but I would be interested how you mounted a modern type tubular shock. Bottom is easy, upsize to 1/2" and use a spacer, for the top i fabricated stud mounts using 2" angle iron and 1/2" bolt shanks, they mount where the Houdaille units did. I'll dig up pics off my laptop... I can usually get the swing arm shocks to work but they never seem to match. Iirc the Gabriel 81676 shock worked out lengthwise, I'll double check that #. The car handles noticeably smoother on lumpy country roads where I like to drive her... mom n dad said the same about their Commander after I made the same mod. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John DePrey Posted January 6, 2023 Share Posted January 6, 2023 one caveat, the flipped bracket changes the shock length, so the one I use might bottom out on a correct one... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studerex Posted January 11, 2023 Share Posted January 11, 2023 On 1/5/2023 at 11:15 PM, John DePrey said: one caveat, the flipped bracket changes the shock length, so the one I use might bottom out on a correct one... somewhere I have a kit supplied by studebaker for 1941 champion to convert from lever to tube rear shocks. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nvonada Posted January 13, 2023 Share Posted January 13, 2023 On 1/10/2023 at 7:59 PM, studerex said: somewhere I have a kit supplied by studebaker for 1941 champion to convert from lever to tube rear shocks. I have never seen anything like that. I would love to see what that looks like. I have probably bought 8 NOS shocks for mine to get 4 good ones and now one is leaking. Was there an accessory part number for that? Thanks, Nathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axial_Flow Posted January 19, 2023 Author Share Posted January 19, 2023 Not much of an update. My daughter had her 11th birthday last Friday and between friend and family get togethers not much shop time. Did make it out there Monday and knocked out a few items. Reassembled the driveshaft Note to self, next time, do not paint the driveshaft until its fully assembled. Aligning the U-joint caps is hard on the yoke paint...... Installed the driveshaft a little bit of blue Loctite on the rear U-joint to rear axle yoke hardware Filled the transmission and OD section Used a quart bottle and pump to fill with GL1 from Napa A few notes from installing the U-joints into the driveshaft. I always make sure the snap ring groove is perfectly clean. I always make sure the yoke inside surface is rust/dirt free and polished a little. I use some 320 grit paper in a slotted bolt and chuck it in my drill. The idea is not to remove metal, just clean up the surface to allow the new U-joint to press in gently. I use a ball joint press for this job, I find it a little easier than a bench top vise. Most of the time very little force is needed to press in the U-joint if all is well. I had a clearance issue with the greaseable U-joint I attempted to install in the transmission slip joint yoke. The yoke does not have much "depth" and the U-joint body was hitting the cap that seals the internal splines of the slip joint yoke. My solution was to use a non-greaseable type. The non-greaseable has a forged steel center section (thinner) instead of the cast steel center section (thicker) of the greaseable type. This worked pretty well and I used the same type on the rear driveshaft end as well. Also, my rear transmission mount is looking really bad, like the rubber melted out of it from the transmission seal leaking. I have not found a replacement yet but wondering if I can attach new rubber to the metal mount? Not sure how it was bonded originally. Anyone have a suggestion or know of parts for sale? Next on the list is engine oil pan and gas tank. I just remembered that when the car was sitting outside with its nose lower than the rear, gas was leaking from somewhere.....I believe it was coming out of the fuel pump weep hole as it sorta looks like something was leaking from that area as its clean around the hole. Will need to source a kit or send it off for rebuilding. Until next time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary_Ash Posted January 19, 2023 Share Posted January 19, 2023 I can't see the shape of the rear transmission support from your pictures. However, I did make a cradle with rubber pad for my 1948 M5 truck in which I installed an earlier OD transmission. I cut a strip of 1" thick nitrile rubber and attached it to the mount with Pliobond glue. See the attached JPG for details. Ideally, the rubber should be vulcanized to the metal but few shops do that anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nvonada Posted January 20, 2023 Share Posted January 20, 2023 Not sure about the President, but on my Champion the fuel level in the tank when full is above the fuel pump level. If you have any sort of leak (or disconnect the fuel line from the pump) it will "self adjust" by leaking gas anywhere. Ask me how I know... Anyway, anything leaking up front could show up if you have a full tank, jack up the rear, or park on a hill. I have seen NOS tranny mounts on e-bay from time to time and if you check with our wonderful vendors you might get lucky. Of course, even a NOS mount has rubber 50 or more years old on it... Nathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axial_Flow Posted February 10, 2023 Author Share Posted February 10, 2023 @Gary_Ash Your mount looks very similar to mine, I will probably go down that road to repair mine. Where did you source the rubber? I was looking at McMaster-Carr. All, I have come upon a major delay in this project, remodel of our master bathroom. My wife has been giving me friendly reminders since about January when I intended on starting the remodel. Hopefully I can knock out the bathroom by mid March and get back to more fun projects for when the weather is a little warmer. Happy wife, happy life, right? I will still be actively checking this forum, but don't expect any updates on the President for a few weeks. Thank you for your support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary_Ash Posted February 10, 2023 Share Posted February 10, 2023 Yes, you can buy BUNA N/Nitrile rubber from McMaster Carr. They have 1" wide x 1/2" thick x 36" long strips in 40 durometer for about $25. Their part number is 1372N19. They also have 1 oz tubes of Pliobond adhesive for $6.20, part number 7468A22. This is the best stuff to glue the rubber. Wear gloves when you use it because it won't come off your skin easily. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axial_Flow Posted August 3, 2023 Author Share Posted August 3, 2023 On 2/10/2023 at 10:15 AM, Axial_Flow said: I have come upon a major delay in this project, remodel of our master bathroom. My wife has been giving me friendly reminders since about January when I intended on starting the remodel. Hopefully I can knock out the bathroom by mid March and get back to more fun projects for when the weather is a little warmer. Happy wife, happy life, right? I will still be actively checking this forum, but don't expect any updates on the President for a few weeks. Months Thank you for your support. After a very long time and many delays throughout the first half of the year, I can finally say I have completed my master bathroom remodel. I attached a few pictures of the final product, sorry I don't have any before pictures. The bathroom was a typical 90s master bath, carpet flooring, single vanity sink, large one piece mirror, fiberglass shower with cheap door. I did all the work myself, the shower took the longest. The shower was a compete rip out and start over, down to the studs. I have done a lot of floor tile, but never wall tile. Glad its done and I can move onto more fun projects. So this is the part when I say I am getting back to work on the 1941 President, however, that isn't exactly what I plan on doing with all my extra free time I have now. Back in November of last year, my goal was to show this car in the HPOF category at Hershey. This does not seem possible right now, so instead of rushing to get it done, I am shooting for Hershey 2024. I don't think I mentioned it much on here, but another project that has been on going is the 1920 Studebaker Special Six engine rebuild. That project has had a lot of delays with sourcing parts, getting parts made, and machine shop work. I think I can finally make some steps getting this engine back together, or at least make some progress. I want to start a new thread on the 1920 Studebaker so I can share some information. Picture of the car below when I was removing the pistons. I will dust off this thread again when I can get back to the President, its a very special car and deserves to be brought back from its years of slumber. Kind regards, 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studerex Posted August 4, 2023 Share Posted August 4, 2023 Cover car 1985. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axial_Flow Posted February 6 Author Share Posted February 6 Hello again, It has been about a year since I got off this project to tackle a bunch of other projects and activities. Last Friday I decided I needed to get back on this car if I had hopes of bringing it to Hershey this year. I got the car situated on the lift and I either wanted to one: refill the engine oil/change filter and perform a compression test or two: pull the oil pan to clean and inspect. I borrowed an inspection camera/bore scope that plugs into your laptop, I stuck this into the oil pan drain hole and started to look around, not happy with what I saw, I removed the engine oil pan. Glad I did, while not awful, there was enough sludge and dirt to possibly cause a problem or at worst, bearing failure. The other issue was the oil strainer was mostly plugged with this same dirt. While I had the pan off, I took off the oil pump to flush and clean it out. The pump seems to be in pretty good condition, the shaft end play is out of spec (0.010") and there is a little bit of backlash in the pump shaft & gear, but I don't think it is anything to worry about. I was going to slightly lap the pump cover on a plate of glass and some emery cloth to clean up the surface some. There is also an odd spot of wear on the pump output tube, not sure what wore that spot, the crank isn't close to contacting it at any place in rotation. Besides some dirt, the inside of the engine seems ok. I was not planning on removing any connecting rod caps or main bearing caps to check bearings. The rods are tight on the crank and I really don't want to go looking for more trouble since this should be a low mileage and running engine not long ago. Agree or disagree?? The other trouble is dealing with the sludge in the oil pan under the rear baffle section. I am currently soaking the oil pan in gas and stirring it up once in a while. If I can't get the sludge out from under the baffle, I will probably cut the spot welds and remove the baffle, clean, and weld it back in. That is the current attack plan right now. I am trying to get some gaskets lined up so I can put the pan back in and hopefully move onto the next check/step. A few pictures below showing some of the items above. I also threw in a few pictures of the on going Special Six project. I should start a new thread on that project once I get further along. It feels good to be back. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axial_Flow Posted February 6 Author Share Posted February 6 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axial_Flow Posted February 6 Author Share Posted February 6 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studerex Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=10228459019369332&set=gm.10158035048641076 Old post on facebook of your car. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stude Light Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 That oil pickup is supposed to float in the oil and not rest on the bottom of the pan so you may want to make sure it isn’t “oil logged”. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axial_Flow Posted February 8 Author Share Posted February 8 On 2/6/2024 at 5:59 PM, Stude Light said: That oil pickup is supposed to float in the oil and not rest on the bottom of the pan so you may want to make sure it isn’t “oil logged”. Yes indeed, the service manual gives a good overview of the operation of the oil pump strainer or "Floto". Float On Top of Oil???? They also warn not to disassemble the Floto. After a few trips in the ultrasonic cleaner (I had to weight it down due to its floating properties), there is still some dirt in the middle of the screen area. If this dirt is really oil based, I wondered if I could "bake" the dirt out if it by cooking it in my toaster oven (note, not the toaster oven in the kitchen). I don't know if this would hurt it or if I should bent the tabs over to remove the lower part to fully clean the screen? Maybe I am over thinking how clean this screen needs to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stude Light Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 My LaSalle uses the same pickup. I did bend the tabs and pulled off the cover to clean out the screen better. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimy Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 59 minutes ago, Axial_Flow said: Yes indeed, the service manual gives a good overview of the operation of the oil pump strainer or "Floto". Float On Top of Oil???? They also warn not to disassemble the Floto. After a few trips in the ultrasonic cleaner (I had to weight it down due to its floating properties), there is still some dirt in the middle of the screen area. If this dirt is really oil based, I wondered if I could "bake" the dirt out if it by cooking it in my toaster oven (note, not the toaster oven in the kitchen). I don't know if this would hurt it or if I should bent the tabs over to remove the lower part to fully clean the screen? Maybe I am over thinking how clean this screen needs to be. I have a Flot-o pickup in my 1934 Pierce 8, which had been overhauled before I acquired it. After about a year, I observed a drop in oil pressure when climbing a significant grade. I dropped the pan and found that the Flot-o was hinged on a cotter pin which was just a tad too thick. I surmised that either wear on the cotter or a couple of specks of grit on the cotter kept it from truly floating when the engine was no longer level. Installed next smaller diameter cotter which has served well the next 15,000 miles. So if your floating pickup is hinged on a cotter, check the diameter of the cotter and go for the Goldilocks "just right" fit. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John DePrey Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 if your engine is original it ran non detergent oil, and the sludge is normal. Many don't know that's why the shop manual instructs to pull and clean the pan yearly, and is probably also why it's a floating pickup... to stay out of the sludge. mine is original and has 40+ psi at road speeds and had sludge. I continue to run NAPA non detergent oil to avoid rinsing the sludge/dirt that may be elsewhere into the oil system and crank/cam bearings. Some have said that it would be fine but I like my 40+ psi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimy Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 35 minutes ago, John DePrey said: if your engine is original it ran non detergent oil, and the sludge is normal. Many don't know that's why the shop manual instructs to pull and clean the pan yearly, and is probably also why it's a floating pickup... to stay out of the sludge. mine is original and has 40+ psi at road speeds and had sludge. I continue to run NAPA non detergent oil to avoid rinsing the sludge/dirt that may be elsewhere into the oil system and crank/cam bearings. Some have said that it would be fine but I like my 40+ psi. See attached photos of "crank turds" from oil passages in a (not mine) Pierce-Arrow crankshaft. "Detergent" oil is a misnomer; it has the magnificent benefit of holding small solid contaminants in suspension so they go out with oil drain. "Non-Detergent" allows contaminants to settle out wherever the oil is when the engine stops, not just in the pan but in oil passages in the crank and elsewhere. With detergent oil, the contaminated oil left in the galleries last change will almost certainly come out the next change. In the early 1950s, there may have been SOME "detergent" oils which turned stuff loose, but not in the last 50 years at least. Thirty years ago I believed what you do now, so I weaned a worn 1925 Pierce 80 engine off non-det by partial detergent changes: (1) 3 qts det + 6 qts non-det, (2) 6 qts det + 3 non-det, (3) all 9 detergent. I had pulled and cleaned the pan and copper lines feeding the mains before the first. Didn't have any oil analysis done, but I pulled the pan 15 years later and found it clean. My advice: Pull the pan, clean it out--and any accessible lines, go to 100% detergent all at once. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John DePrey Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 I cleaned the pan a couple years ago, it was nasty. But I know there’s gotta be sludge elsewhere so I decided to continue with non detergent for awhile. Still haven't convinced myself to switch, maybe I'll clean the pan out again and perhaps roll the dice. Mainly I thought axial would better understand why things were nasty in there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stude Light Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 I did a lot of oil research when I worked at GM and am 100% with @Grimy on this. The word “detergent” conjures up a vision of some heavy duty cleaning compound that makes your engine sparkle inside and is really a poor descriptive word. The additives in “detergent” oils help neutralize the acids formed from combustion byproducts and keep the new combustion contaminants (mostly carbon and carbon containing compounds) dispersed and in suspension of the oil so they don’t precipitate out. The ability to clean out deposits already formed is almost nil. I would never run a non-detergent oil in any of my engines and most of them don’t have oil filters. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axial_Flow Posted February 20 Author Share Posted February 20 Short update I got the oil pan all cleaned up without removing the rear baffle section. I used a combination of hot water pressure washer, brake clean & compressed air. The only problem is it took off most of the paint on the outside. I decided to remove the remaining paint and get it prepped for paint. Does anyone have a recommendation for paint that would match the original paint on the engine? At least one Studebaker parts vendor lists paint and so does Bill Hirsch. Or if someone has a modern paint code, that would work too. The oil pump is all cleaned up and ready to go back on. Strainer is also all clean ready to go back on as well. I did find a problem with my intake manifold, it appears to have a large crack. The crack is in the area of the preheat section and I don’t think it will cause an issue like a vacuum leak. My heat riser valve is missing some parts and could be in the off position, so exhaust may not even leak from the crack. Until the engine is running, I won’t know if the crack is a problem. All for now 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axial_Flow Posted March 13 Author Share Posted March 13 I’m in need of some help. I am getting hung up on installing the oil pump and timing it correctly. I have the service manual and by advice of this forum in another post (Gary) I only focused on the text. I am fairly sure I got it right assuming my cap wired correctly per the firing order. I got the tongue of the oil pump close to parallel with the cam, with the smaller offset portion of the coupling opposite of the cam. My rotor ends up in this position which more or less aligns with #1 cylinder spark plug wire. Can anyone who owns a President with autolite distributor confirm this is correct? Thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axial_Flow Posted March 25 Author Share Posted March 25 End of March update After spending too much time over thinking the oil pump timing, I got to a point where I felt I had it under control. The part that kept throwing me off was the service manual says to time up the oil pump on top dead center compression for #1 cylinder. The distributor rotor position was past the #1 cylinder terminal and heading towards the next cylinder, but this is normal operation as #1 cylinder fires well before TDC. Once I backed up crankshaft and aligned it to the firing timing (mark) position, the rotor was more or less aligned to the #1 cylinder terminal. I can finally put that to bed and finish the oil pump install. Nothing abnormal about installing the pump and pick-up. I replaced some of the hardware I wasn't happy with and found the perfect cotter pin to secure the float pick-up tube. With everything in order I was ready to install my newly painted oil pan. I used Bill Hirsch paint and I was happy with how it turned out. For the gasket, I used Permatex to glue the gasket onto the pan and applied a light coat of grease on the top surface of the gasket. My intent is the next time I need to drop the pan, the gasket will stay with the pan and I should be able to reuse the gasket, or at least the gasket won't stick to the engine. Also, a note for others, the crankshaft must be in a certain position to be able to remove and install the pan. The counter weights need to be "out of the way" to allow the pan to clear the underside of the engine. I also changed the engine oil filter. Nothing crazy exciting, pretty standard partial flow filter element. I do intend on doing another oil change in probably 500 miles or so to flush anything out. I will most likely use Shell 15w-40 'diesel' oil for the first oil refill. I have a few items I want to do before attempting to start the engine. Clean oil pressure regulating valve Reinstall rear tappet cover & road draft tube Clean and gap points & reinstall distributor I did note that the upper distributor bushing must be worn because I can cause the points to open if I push on the shaft. Need to look at that later. I also want to test the vacuum advance. Test oil pressure with all spark plugs out and cranking with starter Compression test to verify no stuck valves or other issues If all that checks out, I'll probably connect a remote fuel tank (boat tank) and use an electric fuel pump and see if I can start the engine. I plan on videoing that when the time comes. I also learned something new about this car, I found out that the panels just below the hood/above the fenders are removable and help provide better access to the engine. Nice to know Pictures from the activities above 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axial_Flow Posted 24 minutes ago Author Share Posted 24 minutes ago Good evening all. I reached a big milestone today, I have a running engine! And I must admit, it runs very well for not completely cleaning the carburetor and only filling the points and installing new spark plugs. Links to video clips: The first video the fast idle cam was stuck, I got it freed up and we had normal idle. some details leading up to this fantastic milestone. With advice from forum members, I removed the oil pressure relief valve and cleaned it. It was stuck in the bore and had burnt oil cooked on it. The small orifice in the piston was plugged. Got it all polished up and reinstalled. Filled up the oil pan with 8 quarts of 15w-40. I installed an oil pressure gauge I have that is known to be accurate. With all the plugs out, I cranked over the engine until I got oil pressure. It took about 3 sessions of 15 seconds of cranking to get 25 psi of oil pressure. I filled the points, installed the distributor, spark plugs, and wires. I did a quick and dirty carb clean. Connected an electric fuel pump to a gas can to carb and after fighting some battery issues got it started with little issues. Had to adjust the timing a little but really I think it wanted to run. There is a lot of smoke due to a lot of oil put into the cylinders over the past few years and I think a lot got into the exhaust manifold and pipe and it take some time to burn off completely. Next I need to clean the gas tank, and rebuild the fuel pump. Then I can move onto the brakes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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