Rear console light - beware...

[65VerdeGS]

So we had guests from Montreal staying with us for a few days and we took them sightseeing in our '65 Riviera.  They were quite impressed at the car and took a video of the clamshell headlights in action to send to their son. 

 

A couple of days later I went to drive the Riv somewhere but the battery was completely dead.  The interior lights didn't even come on when I opened the door.  I put the battery on the trickle charger for several hours and returned later to discover why the battery had been drained so severely.  As I approached the car I saw the rear cosole light was ON.   One of our guests had perchance either turned the lamp on out of curiosity, or had inadvertently hit the little lever to turn the lamp on when exiting the car.

 

In all my years of owning this car this is the first time this has happened. 

 

This lamp sits at the rear of the console, and illuminates towards the rear seat.  The little switch at its base has two settings: "Auto" and "On".  In Auto mode the lamp turns on when the Drivers door is opened.  Curiously, this lamp will not illuminate if the Passenger door is opened.  Is this how it is supposed to work?  Why wouldn't it light up when someone opens the Passenger door, but only when the Drivers door is opened?

 

The second mode "On" is just that.  This allows the lamp to be turned on when the doors are closed.  Handy, for sure, but herein lurks the danger.  If someone turns the lamp on manually this way it will STAY ON until a) it is manually switched off, or b) the battery is run down to nothing!

 

So, is my rear console lamp is working as per factory?  And, why would Buick allow the light to stay on indefinitely if it's left in the ON position?  Is this a "design flaw"?  Perhaps not, as same would happen if you leave the headlights on, or the glovebox open, right?

 

[SwedeDownUnderR63]

3 hours ago, 65VerdeGS said:

So we had guests from Montreal staying with us for a few days and we took them sightseeing in our '65 Riviera.  They were quite impressed at the car and took a video of the clamshell headlights in action to send to their son. 

 

A couple of days later I went to drive the Riv somewhere but the battery was completely dead.  The interior lights didn't even come on when I opened the door.  I put the battery on the trickle charger for several hours and returned later to discover why the battery had been drained so severely.  As I approached the car I saw the rear cosole light was ON.   One of our guests had perchance either turned the lamp on out of curiosity, or had inadvertently hit the little lever to turn the lamp on when exiting the car.

 

In all my years of owning this car this is the first time this has happened. 

 

This lamp sits at the rear of the console, and illuminates towards the rear seat.  The little switch at its base has two settings: "Auto" and "On".  In Auto mode the lamp turns on when the Drivers door is opened.  Curiously, this lamp will not illuminate if the Passenger door is opened.  Is this how it is supposed to work?  Why wouldn't it light up when someone opens the Passenger door, but only when the Drivers door is opened?

 

The second mode "On" is just that.  This allows the lamp to be turned on when the doors are closed.  Handy, for sure, but herein lurks the danger.  If someone turns the lamp on manually this way it will STAY ON until a) it is manually switched off, or b) the battery is run down to nothing!

 

So, is my rear console lamp is working as per factory?  And, why would Buick allow the light to stay on indefinitely if it's left in the ON position?  Is this a "design flaw"?  Perhaps not, as same would happen if you leave the headlights on, or the glovebox open, right?

 

All internal lights, including the rear console, turns on when I open either one of the doors on my ‘63. I have also run into someone by mistake putting the rear console light into the on position but that was detected before the battery had suffered too much.

I have replaced all my internal lights with LED which should make the battery last longer in case it happens again but nothing last forever…

[XframeFX]

6 hours ago, SwedeDownUnderR63 said:

I have replaced all my internal lights with LED which should make the battery last longer in case it happens again but nothing last forever…

Same here. Cool white 194 & C9 equivalents for the instrument panel (although no longer have a dimming feature until I devise a controller) and Warm 1142s popular with RV'ers. I may switch back to regular 194s. But, the latter I especially like because how many times do we leave the door open to check under the dash for fuses and that #%@&! turn signal switch! Six lights are ON with the door. 1142 COB LEDs are emit little heat so no toasted lenses.

10 hours ago, 65VerdeGS said:

this lamp will not illuminate if the Passenger door is opened.

One of the 3 contacts of your passenger door switch is NG. Our Rivs are so high end, they are the only GMs of the era to have 3-Pole door switches. I had mine repaired by Gord W. Wiggle the plunger, see if that rear console light comes ON.

Pole-1 is for the sail panel pair. Pole-2 is for console pair & Map light. This leaves Pole-3 for that rear console light.

 

1142 Style Warm COB Light Listed as 1511:

https://www.amazon.ca/GRV-Ba15d-Power-13-5050-White/dp/B07N1CNRVS?ref_=fsclp_pl_dp_7&th=1

 

[65VerdeGS]

12 hours ago, XframeFX said:

One of the 3 contacts of your passenger door switch is NG. Our Rivs are so high end, they are the only GMs of the era to have 3-Pole door switches. I had mine repaired by Gord W. Wiggle the plunger, see if that rear console light comes ON.

Pole-1 is for the sail panel pair. Pole-2 is for console pair & Map light. This leaves Pole-3 for that rear console light.

Thanks John for this information!  I figured it was kind of illogical for the rear console light to come on only when the driver's door was opened.  I'll wriggle the door switch and likely this will confirm your suspicion.  

 

Who is Gord W, and how do I reach him?

 

Thanks,

[RivNut]

Gordon Wolfgang.  His info is in the classified section of the Riview.  He’s moved from Kansas to Florida and having a house built so he’s not doing any switch repairs until he’s settled in the new house.  
 

[gungeey]

Two things I do when getting a "new to me" 63/4/5: Go through the brakes and disconnect the harness for the center console. An old timer named Dick Sweeney taught me 20 or so years ago that it has been the source of fire. I doubt circumstances have changed for the better in that time. The wire sheathing shrinks, especially in the west coast cars where hotter climate, the ends fray from repeated disassembly during repairs. The dried up cardboard heater duct is right in there alongside a set of 60 YO cigar lighters. Perfect storm. Since then I have had personal knowledge of a total loss with a very nice 63 due to fire. So, it's really not so important to me that I see what gear I'm in with a three speed automatic. Steve 9236

[Hazdaz]

Replace everything with LEDs.  I've recently forgotten my side market lights on overnight.  I was sure that the battery would be dead when I found them the next morning. 

 

Car started right up, no problems. 

 

If they were the old-style incandescent bulbs, there is little chance the car would have started up without charging the battery first. 

[XframeFX]

7 hours ago, gungeey said:

disconnect the harness for the center console.

Agree. I am thoroughly familiar with my 1963 electrics and swapped-out the early dash harness for an "After Job" 1963 harness with a different console connector that included a ground contact. This harness is 'just right" not too fat. Schematic for 1964 and 65 spans 2-pages in the shop manual. A little more complex for those years.

 

Some have installed a relay on the switched 12V to reduce load on the ignition switch and connector. Others have installed a fusible link off the horn relay junction.

 

My Mods included swapping both Casco lighters for HD Power-Points with a 20A inline fuse spliced-in to the original 12 AWG feed under the ashtray (image). Otherwise, there's live (unswitched) power inside the console!

As for load on the ignition switch, I took the heaviest load, the 30A Blower and placed it on a 40A brand-name relay (Made in Germany). This free'd-up the Blower slot in the fuse block for a switched 12V accessory on the 14AWG wire.

 

I still pack a fire extinguisher though!😄

 

 

[1965rivgs]

12 hours ago, gungeey said:

Two things I do when getting a "new to me" 63/4/5: Go through the brakes and disconnect the harness for the center console. An old timer named Dick Sweeney taught me 20 or so years ago that it has been the source of fire. I doubt circumstances have changed for the better in that time. The wire sheathing shrinks, especially in the west coast cars where hotter climate, the ends fray from repeated disassembly during repairs. The dried up cardboard heater duct is right in there alongside a set of 60 YO cigar lighters. Perfect storm. Since then I have had personal knowledge of a total loss with a very nice 63 due to fire. So, it's really not so important to me that I see what gear I'm in with a three speed automatic. Steve 9236

  The console harness overheating is a common problem because the only protection the factory built into the circuit is the inline fuse at the base of the lighter assembly....the overheating becomes a possibility because it is easy and very common for someone to remove a blown fuse and reconnect the wiring. There are very simple ways to remedy this like an inline fuse at each lighter or better yet an inline fuse at the hot feed to the entire console.

Tom Mooney

[1965rivgs]

14 hours ago, RivNut said:

Gordon Wolfgang.  His info is in the classified section of the Riview.  He’s moved from Kansas to Florida and having a house built so he’s not doing any switch repairs until he’s settled in the new house.  
 

  Gordon is currently rebuilding the switches.

Tom Mooney

[RivNut]

That probably depends on if his property survived hurricane Ian.  I have a feeling they were caught right in the middle of it.

[65VerdeGS]

On 9/28/2022 at 8:24 PM, 1965rivgs said:

  The console harness overheating is a common problem because the only protection the factory built into the circuit is the inline fuse at the base of the lighter assembly....the overheating becomes a possibility because it is easy and very common for someone to remove a blown fuse and reconnect the wiring. There are very simple ways to remedy this like an inline fuse at each lighter or better yet an inline fuse at the hot feed to the entire console.

Tom Mooney

Thanks Tom for this info.  Is the inline fuse in the lighter under the flap (door) ahead of the shifter?  Is there also an inline fuse connected to the lighter  assembly at the rear of the console?

 

I don't smoke, so have no real need for the lighters.  Would a quick and short term solution be to disconnecting the hot wire at each lighter?  

 

Which amperage fuse should be used if connecting an inline fuse to the hot feed for the entire console? 

[XframeFX]

19 minutes ago, 65VerdeGS said:

Is the inline fuse in the lighter under the flap (door) ahead of the shifter?

 

19 minutes ago, 65VerdeGS said:

Which amperage fuse should be used

Alex, I usually keep all old parts. But those Casco lighters are all crappy, not worth keeping. They are different with the front that accepts a light, also crappy. Both have built-in protection at the base and are unserviceable.

A little more difficult to install an inline fuse on '65s and 64s with the ashtray so low away from the harness connector. Might be easier to do near the fuse block.

 

Console live 12V feed is 14AWG in my '63. I used a 20A fuse to the rear only which is now a powerpoint. The '63 has classy metal knobs. So, I attached the old lighter knob to the powerpoint rubber plug.

The front lighter hole under the flap is now switched USB power with a cool light.

Works for me!