Vintage Dodge trucks - looking for some information

[Ed Kraft]

Hello !

 

While browsing the AACA Forum, I noticed, that here are quite a lot members with a lot of interest and knowledge about Dodge Brothers and Graham Brothers trucks from the 20s and the 30s.

 

I also have an interest in old American trucks, and have been trying to collect the information and materials on the vehicles, made by some American manufacturers from the mid 20's to 1940. In particular, I'm interested in the information on Dodge trucks from 1929 to 1940, and on Graham trucks, built before 1929. My exact interests in Dodge trucks are limited by two conditions:

1) I'm interested in the information on any Dodge truck, that had a load capacity of 1 ton or more (not 1/2 ton, and not 3/4 ton).

2) I'm interested in the information on any Dodge trucks, that had steel cast spoked wheels with rubber tires, and pressed steel wheels with holes (like the 1930s Ford and Chevrolet truck wheels) with rubber tires (not wooden spoked wheels).

 

Unfortunately, the Internet has very few detailed information about the trucks of those years.

Therefore I decided to write here to ask for the help in the following:
- does anyone here have Dodge salesman books from 1929 up to 1940, sale data books, or other sources, that contain the body builders layouts/diagrams of different types of Dodge trucks, that meet my conditions ? I don't mean simple size diagrams, that are in many sales brochures, but the drawings for the body builders with detailed dimensions of the trucks chassis.

I'm looking for this information for a private non-profit project, that explores the history of the American trucks in Europe from the mid 20's to the 1940.

 

If such Forum members are here - could You, gentlemen, share these layouts with me ?

I shall be very grateful to You for the answers, and for Your help (in case if You kindly agree to help me with these materials).

 

And, if You have similar body builders layouts/diagrams for any Graham trucks, that meet my conditions (1 ton or more, steel wheels with spokes or pressed steel wheels) - I will be very happy.

 

Best regards,
Ed.

[countrytravler]

I have a ton of info on heavy trucks. Probably the largest collection that we have gathered in the last 40 years. unfortunately  I do not have time because we just moved our shop to home and a lot of stuff is stilled packed. And to make matters worse, my job is traveling around the country 10 months out of the year. I will share when I can. Here is our 2 ton 34 Dodge tow truck.

Thanks 

Dave

[Ed Kraft]

Thanks for Your answer, Dave ! I have already read Your posts in other topics, including those, where You wrote about Your strong involvement with Your work.

Yes, this is indeed a pity, since You have already mentioned Your collection of Dodge materials and literature, and I am pretty sure, that You could help me with them. I even wrote an e-mail to You on September 15 this year with a similar request.

But life is life, and work is work - there is nothing to argue against these arguments...

Well, I will have to be patient, and wait until You have the time and opportunity to answer me in detail.

 

And yes - Your tow truck is beautiful ! Thank You very much for these photos. This type of truck is one of those, that interest me.

 

 

Best regards,

Ed.

[30DodgePanel]

Try reaching out to this eBay seller. He has a salesmans book that has information you're describing, maybe he is willing to share for the non profit project. 

 

1931 Dodge Brothers Truck Salesman Catalog Brochure 500 Pages | eBay

 

[countrytravler]

On 9/25/2022 at 12:59 PM, Ed Kraft said:

Thanks for Your answer, Dave ! I have already read Your posts in other topics, including those, where You wrote about Your strong involvement with Your work.

Yes, this is indeed a pity, since You have already mentioned Your collection of Dodge materials and literature, and I am pretty sure, that You could help me with them. I even wrote an e-mail to You on September 15 this year with a similar request.

But life is life, and work is work - there is nothing to argue against these arguments...

Well, I will have to be patient, and wait until You have the time and opportunity to answer me in detail.

 

And yes - Your tow truck is beautiful ! Thank You very much for these photos. This type of truck is one of those, that interest me.

 

 

Best regards,

Ed.

 

[Ed Kraft]

On 9/30/2022 at 7:42 PM, 30DodgePanel said:

Try reaching out to this eBay seller. He has a salesmans book that has information you're describing, maybe he is willing to share for the non profit project.

Thanks for the suggestion. Yes, these are exactly the layouts I'm looking for. But, if it were that simple, the life around would be much easier. I wrote already to this seller some time ago, but he did not respond to my request in any way...

Quote

On 10/3/2022 at 10:47 PM, countrytravler said:

Thanks for the good stuff, Dave ! Obviously, the old books contain a lot of useful information and illustrations !
It is interesting to know Your opinions, dear colleagues, what is the exact model and year of the school bus chassis, the photo of which is placed above ?

It was also unexpected to see a three-axle KS-75 heavy duty truck - I did not suspect the existence of this model !
I have a copy of the Chrysler Corporation book "Model chart and serial number guide includes 1953 model starting serial numbers", which, among others, lists the models and serial numbers of Dodge trucks since 1920, but KS-75 model is not there. I wonder, what starting and ending serial numbers were assigned to the vehicles of this exact type ?

Thanks again, Dave ! It would be nice, if such materials about Dodge products continued to be posted here - if there is such opportunity, of course.

 

 

Best regards,

Ed.

Edited October 6, 2022 by Ed Kraft (see edit history)

[30DodgePanel]

Can you be more specific as to what you're wanting on behalf of the private non-profit project?

Are you looking for specs on several truck models sold domestically in the USA or specs for one truck in particular that was shipped to Europe?

 

You've listed many different years per your request so it would help (since there were so many models and variations) to know what the objective is specifically in order to help you more precisely.

 

 

[Ed Kraft]

Yes, there are much more questions about Dodge truck models, than, for example, about Ford or Chevrolet models.

I would like to understand first, what some particular Dodge truck models looked like, and what were the main stages of changing their general appearance.

In particular, in what year, and from what specific model did the standard angular Dodge cab (as in the F-30/UF-30 types, manufactured from 1930) change to a standard cab with rounded corners ? And in what year before 1940, and from what specific model did this cab with rounded corners change to an even more rounded standard cab ?
So, I would like to see general views, chassis views (bird's eye views, general views, detailed views), views of the engines, axles, wheels from different angles of those trucks; it would be nice to see the dimensions of the cabs (if such illustrations exist). And the technical specifications of the models would be great. And, of course, the body builders layouts would be great here too.

 

At the first stage, I am interested in models with a carrying capacity of 1,5 - 2 tons, produced from year:
1930 - UF-30, UF-31, F-30, F-31, F-35, F-36, F-40, F-41, F-42, Special 2 ton - 150 & 165 W.B.
1931 - UG-31.
1932 - UG-30, UGS-50, G-30, G-31, GS-50, UG-43, UG-44, UGS-55, G-43, G-44, G-55.
1933 - H-30, H-31, H-33, H-34, H-43, H-44.

This list is based on data from the Chrysler's "Model chart and serial number guide includes 1953 model starting serial numbers" book.

 

By the way, I carefully read this early thread - Any idea what year this is ? - in which You took an active part. The illustrative materials in that thread show approximately, what materials I am interested in. I have kept the materials from there in my collection.

Other stages will be devoted to the trucks of other types, payloads, and years of production.

Edited October 9, 2022 by Ed Kraft (see edit history)

[nearchoclatetown]

Ed, I am not sure what information you are looking for from those models. But you may find some of it in the AACA library in the DBC collection. Look at the DBC website and go down the list to Burchill collection part 2. There are several heavy truck manuals that I scanned listed there. Copies are available from them. 

[Ed Kraft]

Thanks for the advice, nearchoclatetown.
I'll look up that list on the DBC site.

As experience shows, there is never too much information, and several sources of information are always better, than one source.

[30DodgePanel]

15 hours ago, Ed Kraft said:

Yes, there are much more questions about Dodge truck models, than, for example, about Ford or Chevrolet models.

I would like to understand first, what some particular Dodge truck models looked like, and what were the main stages of changing their general appearance.

In particular, in what year, and from what specific model did the standard angular Dodge cab (as in the F-30/UF-30 types, manufactured from 1930) change to a standard cab with rounded corners ? And in what year before 1940, and from what specific model did this cab with rounded corners change to an even more rounded standard cab ?
So, I would like to see general views, chassis views (bird's eye views, general views, detailed views), views of the engines, axles, wheels from different angles of those trucks; it would be nice to see the dimensions of the cabs (if such illustrations exist). And the technical specifications of the models would be great. And, of course, the body builders layouts would be great here too.

 

At the first stage, I am interested in models with a carrying capacity of 1,5 - 2 tons, produced from year:
1930 - UF-30, UF-31, F-30, F-31, F-35, F-36, F-40, F-41, F-42, Special 2 ton - 150 & 165 W.B.
1931 - UG-31.
1932 - UG-30, UGS-50, G-30, G-31, GS-50, UG-43, UG-44, UGS-55, G-43, G-44, G-55.
1933 - H-30, H-31, H-33, H-34, H-43, H-44.

This list is based on data from the Chrysler's "Model chart and serial number guide includes 1953 model starting serial numbers" book.

 

By the way, I carefully read this early thread - Any idea what year this is ? - in which You took an active part. The illustrative materials in that thread show approximately, what materials I am interested in. I have kept the materials from there in my collection.

Other stages will be devoted to the trucks of other types, payloads, and years of production.

 

 Since you are looking for an extensive amount of material you might also consider purchasing the book by Eric Bannerman. I have not purchased it but it may some of the items on your list. 

New Book! Dodge Truck Serial Numbers 1917 - 1980 Dodge, Plymouth, Fargo, Desoto 9780997589306 | eBay

[countrytravler]

[countrytravler]

[30DodgePanel]

NICE ! 

 

Wouldn't that be fun to own nowdays.

What are the specs on that beaut?

 

[kar3516]

[kar3516]

[kar3516]

[kar3516]

[kar3516]

[kar3516]

[kar3516]

[kar3516]

[Ed Kraft]

To countrytravler:

 

Thank You very much for the new useful material, Dave ! Truly, it is never too late to gain any knowledge.
And indeed, as 30DodgePanel wrote above - what are the specification and exact model of that Dodge with a sleeper cab ?

 

To kar3516:

 

Excellent, dear kar3516 ! Certainly, Dodge trucks of the F60 series are in the range of my interests, and Your materials came in handy.

 

Thank You very much, men !

Edited October 13, 2022 by Ed Kraft (see edit history)

[30DodgePanel]

Just curious, what is the name of the non profit organization that you're attempting to compile information on behalf of and what specific region in Europe? 

[Ed Kraft]

23 hours ago, 30DodgePanel said:

name of the organization that you're attempting to compile information on behalf of and what region in Europe?

I am in Latvia, and not affiliated with any organization. The "private project" in my case means "the amateur research of one person". I understand, that for the serious researches on such historical topic it is necessary to work with the documents in the archives of many different countries, which would require a huge amount of time and money. It is not realistic to implement - I am no longer young, and I have many other things to do. Therefore, I do not set a goal for me "to become famous all over the World". I'm looking for the information "as luck would have it", based on the principle: "Something is found - this is great ! But if I can't find something - well, it doesn't matter; I do what I can.". I also understand, that in terms of the information, these searches can bring meager results, or bring nothing. But at least I'm trying. And if You, dear colleagues, think, that I am asking too much, or asking too many questions - tell me about this, and I will stop doing this.

[countrytravler]

[countrytravler]

 

Edited October 17, 2022 by countrytravler (see edit history)

[countrytravler]

[nearchoclatetown]

Dave, the ads you posted are very similar to the 1919 DB Truck Builder I just had at Hershey show. One of your ads shows the early chain driven rear end. The DB club owned truck has the later rear, 7 to 1 gear ratio making it very slow. It was assembled by a DB dealer in South Dakota. Have you come across any other Truck Builder trucks in your travels? 

[30DodgePanel]

A couple of rare looks at buses from the Graham Brothers era. I find it interesting that the Parlor Coach would climb Pikes Peak daily. 

 

 

 

This one has always confused me as I'm not sure how the passengers got to their seats without climbing over. A nice example of a foreign assembly Graham Brothers of Europe RHD from a builder in Knebworth UK. School bus I presume.

Edited October 18, 2022 by 30DodgePanel (see edit history)

[Ed Kraft]

Thank You both for new interesting images, countrytravler and 30DodgePanel !

Quote

30DodgePanel wrote:

This one has always confused me as I'm not sure how the passengers got to their seats without climbing over. A nice example of a foreign assembly Graham Brothers of Europe RHD from a builder in Knebworth UK. School bus I presume.

The concept of "school bus", and their widespread use is a purely American phenomenon, coming from the old days. In other countries, oddly enough, this type of bus is much less common, although there are enough schools. For example, I have seen just a very few photographs from the United Kingdom and other countries, showing the buses with children. As I read somewhere, if necessary (for example, for excursions or holidays), they rented the buses from the ordinary carriers. Moreover - here I found some interesting information about the "First Student UK" company: "The brand was originally used in the United States for school transport, and was expanded to the United Kingdom in 2000. "First Student UK" was a pioneer in the introduction of task-specific school buses in Britain.". It turns out, that until year 2000 there were no special school buses in the UK.

 

So about this Graham You posted, I'm pretty sure, it's a regular tour bus, or a bus for the intercity transportation. As for the design of its body - there is no secret. Given the direction of travel on the roads of Great Britain, it is safe to say that this bus had individual doors on its left side for each row of the seats. Such body is shown in the illustration below on the example of the Swedish bus on Volvo chassis (I could not find the photo of the similar body on Graham chassis). Obviously, such bus should have the doors on both sides of the body, but in this particular case, the bus customer, most likely, saved his money on the doors on one body side.

Edited October 19, 2022 by Ed Kraft (see edit history)

[stakeside]

On 10/17/2022 at 2:42 PM, countrytravler said:

Great picture showing 8 spoke iron rims on the 3 ton flat bed.

[keiser31]

On 10/17/2022 at 6:27 PM, 30DodgePanel said:

A couple of rare looks at buses from the Graham Brothers era. I find it interesting that the Parlor Coach would climb Pikes Peak daily. 

 

 

 

This one has always confused me as I'm not sure how the passengers got to their seats without climbing over. A nice example of a foreign assembly Graham Brothers of Europe RHD from a builder in Knebworth UK. School bus I presume.

Given the right-hand drive, I would imagine that the passenger doors are on the side that we cannot see.

Edited October 20, 2022 by keiser31 (see edit history)

[30DodgePanel]

On 10/9/2022 at 12:07 PM, Ed Kraft said:

I would like to understand first, what some particular Dodge truck models looked like, and what were the main stages of changing their general appearance.

In particular, in what year, and from what specific model did the standard angular Dodge cab (as in the F-30/UF-30 types, manufactured from 1930) change to a standard cab with rounded corners ? 

 

In a previous discussion with Eric Bannerman, he and I were both very curious to know the answers to these questions. Quite honestly, the answers are to be found but the amount of time for research is ungodly in order to uncover all the answers that are needed to gain a complete understanding of what has many of us so curious about the same questions. I personally would love to help out but I have way too many other things I'm trying to focus on. 

If you haven't been on HathiTrust Digital Library you may want to check into that site. Very helpful to anyone wanting to research pre war cars and trucks. 

HathiTrust Digital Library | Millions of books online

 

Here's a link after doing a search for Dodge Brothers combined with "Commercial Car Journal 1932". It discusses the new sedan delivery with same passenger (rounded corner) lines. This gives the reader some indication as to when the rounded corners first started appearing as the look transitioned from cars over to the truck line. I'm sure if one did some serious digging on that site you could probably pinpoint the exact time line, that is if one has the time to put the pieces together. 

#248 - The Commercial car journal. v.44 1932-1933 Sep-Feb. - Full View | HathiTrust Digital Library

 

The Commercial car journal. v.44 1932-1933 Sep-Feb.

 

 

 

Also locate the commercial car or truck specs pages to determine when the NEW models were released. Note the third photo showing when the 1930 DA124 was released. The third photo is from an earlier Sept 1929 (1930 models) Commercial Car Journal. I have also verified the release date via confidential bulletins for the 1930 DA124 model. The first and second photo are from the same issue, so the answers are either in this issue or somewhere very close to this time frame.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 24, 2022 by 30DodgePanel (see edit history)

[Ed Kraft]

Yes, thank You, 30DodgePanel. I know this source - I often turn to it, when looking for the answers to various questions on the historical automotive topics.
However, the search is much more interesting not in the well-known sources, but through the requests on the Forums, since it can bring the results, that have been hidden so far - the useful information from the private collections can emerge. It is quite easy for the owners of such information to find and show it there (if they have the opportunity and desire to do this), and it can be extremely useful for some Forum members, since, perhaps, these people have been looking for such information for a very long time, not suspecting, that someone already has it.

Edited October 27, 2022 by Ed Kraft (see edit history)