32 Buick 57 tail/brake lights not working

[Bessie32]

Headlights are working however no tail lights and no brake lights, I attempted to remove the cover from the tail lights 2 screws removed it there a trick to removing the cover? 

Also if someone could guide me to the fuse box where is it located?

 

There is a switch at the bottom of the dash a very small silver switch that moves left to right trying to determine what exactly that is for.

 

Thank you any feedback is appreciated!

[Str8-8-Dave]

I assume the 2 screws and cover are bezel screws on the tail lamp?  Once those are removed the bezel should slide off the tail lamp shell with a little alternate pulling from side to side with your fingernails on the edge of the bezel.  If stuck try spraying all around the joint between the bezel and the tail lamp shell with WD40 and wait a few minutes and try again.  Don't wedge a screwdriver or other tools into the joint, it's all brass and it will break.

 

Power for tail lights comes from the current limit relay under the dash to the headlight switch on the bottom of the steering gear under the hood.  The stop lamp circuit passes thru a stop lamp switch mounted on the frame on the left side of the car and is operated by a rod and bell crank off the main brake shaft that runs across the chassis of the car.  The only fuses you will find are fuses someone added, the current limit relay constitutes the only circuit protection on a production wired car.  Harness connector plugs are hidden in the tubular brackets the tail light shells are mounted on and are known troublemakers.  If you get the bezels off and determine there is no voltage available at the bulb contacts you should remove the tail light shells from the brackets and disconnect the hard shell connecters and clean the contacts and make sure the springs in the connecters are healthy enough to push connecter terminals against corresponding terminals in the tail light shell. 

[F&J]

1 hour ago, Bessie32 said:

There is a switch at the bottom of the dash a very small silver switch that moves left to right trying to determine what exactly that is for.

A late friend showed me a 1931 model 60 Buick he had just bought, and I know he flipped a toggle switch under the dash edge to show me that the dash gauges lights still worked. 

 

I had a 1930 Mopar and that car had the same switch for it's dash lights.  So, that's my guess as to your switch. 

[trini]

I guess the tail light bulb is an 11 57 . Attach a jumper wire from battery to the wire at the bulb socket and use a test light to trace it's source.

[JACK M]

90% of all electrical problems are groundless.

[Grimy]

35 minutes ago, trini said:

I guess the tail light bulb is an 11 57

#1157 is a dual filament **12 volt** bulb.  You may well have two separate single-contact 6V sockets and bulbs, as dual filament tail/stop bulbs were in their infancy in 1932 if they existed at all.  Of course, the unit(s) may have been modified.  The separate units often (not necessarily Buick) used #63 (3 candlepower) for the tail and #81 (about 15 cp) for the stop.  #63 is way, way too dim for modern driving.  If you can fit both sockets with #1129 (21 cp) single-contact bulbs, you will be ahead of the game, but the globes are larger and may interfere with each other spacewise.

 

For 6V systems, **grounds** are the major failing and need much more frequent attention.  My diagnostic tool of choice is a 6 ft length of 10-gauge wire with an alligator clip on each end.  Test the grounding of each socket first by attaching one alligator clip to the socket body and the other to a chassis/frame ground such as a bumper bracket/iron.  Use a VOM to determine if you're getting current to the spring-loaded contact with the switch ON.  For brake lights, rig something to hold the brake pedal down or have an assistant keep the pedal depressed.

[Bessie32]

Thank you so they both have 63 in them the upper light red is functioning one bulb was burnt out the other the contact was not hitting, however the amber (bottom of tail light) light is not functioning is there a reverse light on these? I will try the 1129's to see if I can get a brighter light however I doubt that I will every drive this in the evening and definately not in the rain!
You guys are great thank you!!

 

[Grimy]

1 hour ago, Bessie32 said:

Thank you so they both have 63 in them the upper light red is functioning one bulb was burnt out the other the contact was not hitting, however the amber (bottom of tail light) light is not functioning is there a reverse light on these? I will try the 1129's to see if I can get a brighter light however I doubt that I will every drive this in the evening and definately not in the rain!
You guys are great thank you!!

You may have to try #81 in tail (improves output from 3 cp to 15 cp), #1129 (brighter at 21 cp) in stop in case two #1129s are too big in globe size to fit the space available.

 

Most of us use Rain-X as a coating rather than even use wipers.  Rain-X allows rain to "sheet" off the windshield.  Suggest the liquid form and carry a bottle in the car with a couple of blue paper towels (a little better than white paper towels) "just in case" on the principle that if you have them, you won't need them!

Edited November 27, 2021 by Grimy
fix typo (see edit history)

[Bessie32]

Thank you for the RainX idea she has no wipers on her but should be ready in case I get caught in the rain, I will try the #81, so my tail light casing has red on top and amber on bottom, any idea what the amber is for? Running lights maybe??? 

Any idea where a girl can get her hands on a manuel for Bessie???

[Grimy]

15 minutes ago, Bessie32 said:

Thank you for the RainX idea she has no wipers on her but should be ready in case I get caught in the rain, I will try the #81, so my tail light casing has red on top and amber on bottom, any idea what the amber is for? Running lights maybe???

Amber was often used for stop in those days, believe it or not (my 1934 and 1936 Pierces have amber for stop).  Red is for tail.  I believe the idea was that the amber contrasted with the red of the always-on-with-headlights taillights.  Be sure to test which is tail vs stop by turning lights on without stepping on brake.

 

I had a 1934 Buick for many years but don't know today where you can get a manual.  To me, it's worth paying extra for an original shop manual if you can find one because the reprints are often "muddy" and lose detail.

[Bessie32]

thank you, so red is working but the amber is not!!  so I need to find out if there is power coming in there here is just a hook where the bulb goes in the end of the bulb connects but no power on the bottom I will check the relay under the dash to make sure all the wires are connected I did have the lights on the steering wheel is the wrong position😁 gave my hubby a little jolt so to the  left on the wheel the red top tail light is on the straight down is totally off and the red tail works on all other stations.

 

I am assuming they are two different wires???

 

[Bessie32]

This can't be good lol any idea what that copper wire if for?

[Grimy]

Yes, two different wires.  You need to test the brake for current at the socket ONLY when the pedal is depressed.  These are mechanical brakes so there is a special stop light switch (I'll tell you how to find in a moment) under the floor.  It will have two wires: one for power coming in (usually "always hot") and one which carries current to the socket only when the pedal is depressed.  This is usually a sliding switch, one side of which may be waterproof cardboard (we hope).   With brake applied, the one going to the socket should have voltage, but no voltage when pedal is released.  If you can open the folded tabs and get access to the contacts, clean them up.

 

Where to find:  I don't remember the setup on my 1934 Buick, but under the car on the drivers side you may find one or two springs attached to the brake pedal.  A heavy/heavier spring will be the return spring to bring the pedal back up when the brake is released.  The lighter spring may be attached to the switch itself which may be as small as 2" x 1" x 3/4" thick.

 

If you can't make the existing switch work, or if it's missing:

* Chevy trucks in the late 1940s/early 1950s used a switch with a long finger that rides on the part of the brake pedal under the floor.  These are being reproduced and can be found at Chevy truck vendors.

* Model A Fords used two different switches (reproduced and sold by Model A Ford vendors), both of which are sealed (a good thing), so you may have to rig some longtailed hardware store springs.

[Bessie32]

ok both the brake lights and tail lights are working thank you so much any idea how to get the cover off of the front running lights?

I am sure the bulbs are bad my dash lights aren't working so I will check the wiring underneath and see if I can see a problem there, very excited we have some rear lights working perfectly!!

Also the folded tabs you are saying to open up and clean the contacts that is under the car correct? Hubby was a mechanic for 45 years so that helps. 

Edited November 28, 2021 by Bessie32 (see edit history)

[Grimy]

Suggest you wait for the very knowledgeable 1932 Buick guys on the forum to answer your question about headlight lens removal.  I can tell you that the bezels/surrounds (called "doors" in shop manuals) come off as a unit with the lenses.  The lenses are valuable, so be exceptionally careful.  I use TWO folded moving blankets placed on the bumper brackets and have a second person to provide a quick catch capability.  Sometimes I'll use painter's tape to attach padding to fender or grille areas where it might hit.

 

The headlights MAY use #1000 6-volt double-contact bulbs--if you have an owner's manual it will tell you.  I'd get the bulb number first and get two of them on hand before disabling the headlights, even though you may need just contacts and grounds refreshed.  You will NOT find #1000 bulbs at a NAPA or other local parts store.

 

Have you found the stoplight switch?  If you can, please post a picture.  Since it's working now, don't mess with the innards--just clean the terminals on the two wires and the switch contacts.

 

Instrument lights are probably switched separately from headlights themselves--knob or toggle on or under dash?.  Start all these projects with just cleaning wire terminals and switch or connection contacts.

[trini]

A common problem is not so common . Our old cars sits most of the time and give the electrical systems time to corrode at the connections so it may be necessary to reboot the bulbs sockets and all connections. Just my thoughts. Worth a penny ?

[Bessie32]

Thank you Grimy for the feedback I have not found the stoplight switch is it underneath the car on the left hand side? So the lens caps we were trying to remove is not the actually headlight but the lights to the left of the headlight and right of the headlight I presume they are some kind of running or fog light? We did try but was unsuccessful until we received further notification as to how to properly remove them.  As soon as I find the stoplight switch I can send a photo of it does anyone happen to have a diagram of what that looks like? Trini so my car gets driven about 2-3 times a week I am in Cali so we have nice weather and I love to just take her out even if its for a few blocks she is fun to drive!!

I was unable to even find a 63 or an 81 bulb in this town!!! I would imagine I need to find a vendor online that supplies them? 

 

Edited November 28, 2021 by Bessie32 (see edit history)

[a griffin]

Find Paul Rickman with 1933 buick registry. He's helped me a bunch in the past when I was restoring a 33 50.

[Bessie32]

33 minutes ago, a griffin said:

Find Paul Rickman with 1933 buick registry. He's helped me a bunch in the past when I was restoring a 33 50.

Thank you so much!

 

[Grimy]

You really need a shop manual, or at least a photocopy, to maintain this car properly.  My 1934 shop manual went away with my car, some 20 years ago.

[Bessie32]

3 hours ago, a griffin said:

Find Paul Rickman with 1933 buick registry. He's helped me a bunch in the past when I was restoring a 33 50.

Thank you so much I emailed him and he called me, wow nicest man EVER and is so full of knowledge on my car, amazing!!! So happy I was able to connect on here with all of you!

[a griffin]

13 hours ago, Bessie32 said:

Thank you so much I emailed him and he called me, wow nicest man EVER and is so full of knowledge on my car, amazing!!! So happy I was able to connect on here with all of you!

You're welcome. We've all hit obstacles working on these cars. Sharing information is the only way we can continue to keep these cars going.

[Bessie32]

3 hours ago, a griffin said:

You're welcome. We've all hit obstacles working on these cars. Sharing information is the only way we can continue to keep these cars going.

I have met some of the nicest most helpful people on here and I greatly appreciate all the information and time everyone has provided as I learn I will help anyone I can!  Thank you again!!