cquisuila Posted September 7, 2021 Share Posted September 7, 2021 hello i have a problem with charge alternator it is not efficient here the diagram for riviera 1966 i sawn the blue wire from F alternator to 1/F regulator but the pin R from ALTERNATOR? ON DIAGRAM it is not wired !!?? thank you for your help ? Philippe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmTee Posted September 7, 2021 Share Posted September 7, 2021 Philippe, The "R" terminal is used to operate the "Generator" (or "ALT") light on the dashboard for Buicks EXCEPT the Riviera. As shown in the diagram you posted, the Riviera uses an ammeter instead of an indicator light. There is a similar diagram on the same page of the shop manual that shows the connection for the models that lack an ammeter and use the light. If you have the shop manual it provides troubleshooting procedures for a "no charge" condition. Basically, you need to verify that 12V is present at the BAT terminal on the alternator, the belt should be checked to ensure it is tight enough to prevent slipping and the battery should be charged. If those things are correct, then check for voltage at the "F" (Field) terminal of the alternator with the key in the RUN position. If there's no voltage present, the next thing to check would be the voltage regulator. If there's voltage on the field coil, then the problem is likely inside the alternator. Again, the shop manual provides detailed troubleshooting and repair procedures. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XframeFX Posted September 8, 2021 Share Posted September 8, 2021 With the engine running, there should be approx. 14.6 Vdc at the junction block. I always wondered about the Ammeter whenever it comes-up for 2nd Gen Rivs. There must be a sensor connected to the gauge. I can't imagine a positive battery cable routed through the firewall to the instrument panel. That was the case with old cars with 6V systems and was dangerous! The Ammeter in the schematic shows the gauge under the hood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmTee Posted September 8, 2021 Share Posted September 8, 2021 I haven't checked the shop manual to confirm, but I believe it is indeed an ammeter wired in series (no 'sensor'). I worked at my friend's father's auto electric shop in high school and remember bypassing failed ammeters in more than one '60s and '70s Chrysler product. Fortunately, the failure mode was just 'dead' car... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloo Posted September 8, 2021 Share Posted September 8, 2021 i suspect it is nothing like the Chrysler system. Does the horn relay look like this? If so, have a look at this Chevrolet truck thread https://vccachat.org/ubbthreads.php/topics/456521/howdy-from-oregon-gauges-instrument-panel.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cquisuila Posted September 8, 2021 Author Share Posted September 8, 2021 (edited) the schema on riviera 1966 with ammeter in series certainly: Edited September 8, 2021 by cquisuila (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloo Posted September 8, 2021 Share Posted September 8, 2021 Notice the external shunt "10 red shunt". That implies it works like the Chevrolet ammeter. It is a bi-directional voltmeter, reading in amps. Apparently it uses a piece of #10 wire as the shunt, rather than a chunk of metal on the horn relay. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cquisuila Posted September 8, 2021 Author Share Posted September 8, 2021 i will see this point ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmTee Posted September 8, 2021 Share Posted September 8, 2021 (edited) Yes, all ammeters are essentially 'voltmeters' in this regard. I think the issue with the Chrysler implementation was that it had the shunt built into the gauge and they would sometimes fail (open) and the car would be dead. Edited September 8, 2021 by EmTee typo (see edit history) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmTee Posted September 8, 2021 Share Posted September 8, 2021 From the 1967 Buick Service Manual (Section F, Instrument Panel & Headlamp Operation - Riviera): "The ammeter is of the shunt type and is connected across a long section of No. 10 wire which functions as a calibrated resistance. The ammeter is connected in such a location that all current going into or coming out of the battery (except main starter current) will register. Current supplied from the generator [sic] directly to accessories will not register." 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
protrash63 Posted September 10, 2021 Share Posted September 10, 2021 On 9/8/2021 at 2:26 PM, EmTee said: From the 1967 Buick Service Manual (Section F, Instrument Panel & Headlamp Operation - Riviera): "The ammeter is of the shunt type and is connected across a long section of No. 10 wire which functions as a calibrated resistance. The ammeter is connected in such a location that all current going into or coming out of the battery (except main starter current) will register. Current supplied from the generator [sic] directly to accessories will not register." I looked into fixing ammeters in my Chevy trucks and this explanation makes sense. You want all the load to be on one side so the gauge will show if the system is charging or being drained. NOTE: I decided not to fix any!! lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cquisuila Posted September 12, 2021 Author Share Posted September 12, 2021 so I changed the olf alternator and put a NEW the results are on the picture : i started the engine the battery before was 12 V NOW AFTER 10 minutes >i have 12.25 V IT is strange i don't see 13.5-14 V what i must control please ? Thank you ! philippe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmTee Posted September 12, 2021 Share Posted September 12, 2021 If alternator output is low, try supplying field voltage directly. Disconnect the electrical connector on the alternator. Connect a jumper wire from the "F" terminal on the back of the alternator to the BAT terminal. If the alternator output is normal (~14V) with the jumper in place, then either the voltage regulator or the wiring harness is faulty. If alternator output is still low, the alternator has an internal fault. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cquisuila Posted September 13, 2021 Author Share Posted September 13, 2021 i have to connect the F ....to BAT of alternator ?? And i mesure the voltage to BAT PIN of alternator ??? is itexact ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmTee Posted September 13, 2021 Share Posted September 13, 2021 Yes, connect BAT pin on alternator to F pin on alternator. The idea is to manually energize the field windings in the alternator. If the alternator is good, you should measure 14V at the battery itself (or BAT terminal). If this works, then the alternator is good and most likely the voltage regulator is bad. Just be sure that the connections at the voltage regulator are clean and tight and the wires are in good condition. The regulator should be securely attached to the car with the cover in place. Be careful removing or installing the regulator cover with the battery connected. Inadvertently shorting 12V to ground through the cover can damage the regulator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cquisuila Posted September 13, 2021 Author Share Posted September 13, 2021 ok i read that the max voltage (with air temperature at regulator ) is only after 15 minutes.... SO it is normal to have 12.5V only after 5 minutes! no ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmTee Posted September 13, 2021 Share Posted September 13, 2021 If the charging system is functioning there should be approximately 14V measured across the battery terminals at fast idle with headlights turned on. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cquisuila Posted September 13, 2021 Author Share Posted September 13, 2021 ok when i started engine i mesured 13,5 v in pin f to pin bat without head lights Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmTee Posted September 13, 2021 Share Posted September 13, 2021 (edited) OK, it sounds like the alternator is functioning. Is your battery fully charged? If not, that may explain the 13.5V output instead of 14V. Make sure the battery is fully charged. Test specific gravity of the electrolyte with a hydrometer. Also make sure that the alternator belt is tight and not slipping. If the output at the battery is only 12V with the field jumper removed, then you probably have a bad voltage regulator. Before replacing it though, check it as I described in my next to last response above. Edited September 13, 2021 by EmTee (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cquisuila Posted September 14, 2021 Author Share Posted September 14, 2021 ok i will see. Thanks for yours answers !!!🙂 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cquisuila Posted September 16, 2021 Author Share Posted September 16, 2021 (edited) On 9/8/2021 at 9:11 AM, Bloo said: Notice the external shunt "10 red shunt". That implies it works like the Chevrolet ammeter. It is a bi-directional voltmeter, reading in amps. Apparently it uses a piece of #10 wire as the shunt, rather than a chunk of metal on the horn relay. on my riviera 1966 what this shunt looks like please ? here the mesures : how testing the bad regulator if it is bad ?? - IT is real that i don't circulate with the car and the test are in engine without wheels so perhaps the car needs to circulate to charge normally the battery ??😂 Edited September 16, 2021 by cquisuila (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmTee Posted September 17, 2021 Share Posted September 17, 2021 As long as the engine speed is more than 1000 Revolutions Per Minute (RPM) the alternator should charge the battery. The car does not have to be driving down the road. It sounded like your previous test showed the alternator generating greater than 13V when the field was manually energized using a jumper wire. Based on that result it's likely a bad voltage regulator. Do you have another regulator that you can install? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cquisuila Posted September 17, 2021 Author Share Posted September 17, 2021 super EmTee ! I just ordered a regulator and i will verify 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RivNut Posted September 17, 2021 Share Posted September 17, 2021 FYI - New ones are transistorized. Riveted cover that cannot be removed so there’s no adjustment - which is good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
telriv Posted September 17, 2021 Share Posted September 17, 2021 Just drill out the rivets & install your original cover with the screws & NO ONE will be the wiser UNLESS they know what to look for. Tom T. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmTee Posted September 17, 2021 Share Posted September 17, 2021 Make sure it works first! If the voltage regulator doesn't solve the problem, then you'll need to start tracing wires at the regulator connector. I'm hoping it doesn't come to that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cquisuila Posted September 21, 2021 Author Share Posted September 21, 2021 (edited) I just received and i changed it and it is good << i have the good voltage on the battery ~14V !!! YES !!🤠 Thank you for your advise, all !!!!🤗 Edited September 22, 2021 by cquisuila (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cquisuila Posted September 24, 2021 Author Share Posted September 24, 2021 (edited) I verified now the old alternator and it is efficient. So it was only the regulator not efficient Edited September 24, 2021 by cquisuila (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmTee Posted September 24, 2021 Share Posted September 24, 2021 Glad to hear the good news -- now get out there and drive it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cquisuila Posted September 24, 2021 Author Share Posted September 24, 2021 yes i will make a try after changement gasket oil pan, drain oil, drain gear oil and changing gasket pan and filter....;) ;) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cquisuila Posted November 17, 2022 Author Share Posted November 17, 2022 (edited) I SAWN on my regulator on pin 4 a condensor like this : i sawn that the wire is cut i solded in center to repair is it good ? I SAWN that this condensor is not very important for the system AND the black wire is alimented on 12V ok ? Edited November 17, 2022 by cquisuila (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmTee Posted November 17, 2022 Share Posted November 17, 2022 Yes, your condenser repair will work. You can also remove it completely if you want to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cquisuila Posted November 17, 2022 Author Share Posted November 17, 2022 (edited) 25 minutes ago, EmTee said: Yes, your condenser repair will work. You can also remove it completely if you want to. thanks EmTee and if i remplaced this (if it is deficient) what capacity must i put please ? THE ORIGINAL REFERENCE IS : DR 5MF 1966588 Edited November 17, 2022 by cquisuila (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmTee Posted November 17, 2022 Share Posted November 17, 2022 23 minutes ago, cquisuila said: DR 5MF 1966588 The part number implies that it would likely be a 5 micro-Farad capacitor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cquisuila Posted November 17, 2022 Author Share Posted November 17, 2022 16 minutes ago, EmTee said: The part number implies that it would likely be a 5 micro-Farad capacitor. ok you cleared up the doubt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloo Posted November 17, 2022 Share Posted November 17, 2022 It looks way to small to be 5 microfarads in that era. I think 0.5 microfarads would be a better guess. It is for radio noise reduction. The value is probably not critical. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cquisuila Posted November 19, 2022 Author Share Posted November 19, 2022 i changed the regulator by model STANDARD MOTOR PRODUCTS VR103 (equivalent of AC DELCO D663) and now the tension is out to pin alternator to 17 V when i push gas pedal ! I READ IN THE NOTICE THAT it could be the problem of spring tension as the picture : Is it the solution please ? THANKK YOU ! Philippe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmTee Posted November 19, 2022 Share Posted November 19, 2022 Before adjusting anything make sure that the battery is fully charged (check specific gravity). If the battery is OK, check voltage at the battery with the engine running and headlights ON. You should see 14.5 Volts. If it is higher, then adjust the regulator by bending the tang as described in the instructions that you posted above. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cquisuila Posted November 19, 2022 Author Share Posted November 19, 2022 ok i verify all thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cquisuila Posted December 19, 2022 Author Share Posted December 19, 2022 (edited) so i adjus the regulator by bending the tang slowly as described in the instructions that i posted above. it's strange all the same that the regulator received charged more... i have 14.7 V now Edited December 20, 2022 by cquisuila (see edit history) 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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