New Riviera owner looking for guidance/tips on repairs and how to aquire certain parts. 1986-1993

[911delorean]

Hello to all Riviera owners.

A few years ago I was proudly able to purchase a 92 Riviera from my great grandfather. I have absolutely loved the car and has been a really reliable daily driver.

But recently I have been wanting to do work on it to fix things that have never been right with the car. Mostly minor annoyances. But also some mechanical work as well when I have the time or if I have the ability to do it myself.

I have done some work to the car mostly as peace of mind, as I don't have any records of any repairs that have been done previously.

If anyone is curious on what I have done. I'll be glad to share my story if they were interested.

 

Anyway I'm trying to slowly fix as much on the car as I possibly can. So I have a list that may be growing as I find out things. So if anybody has any input, I welcome the comments.

 

1. The Opera lights have never worked, I did do some checking and do have 12v going to the lights. But as far as I am aware these are electro-luminescent, so either the internal power supply has died, or the EL material is junk. I had read a forum post when I bought the car that they can be repaired. But I wasn't able to find much info. I have seen these working in pictures and love the look in the dark.

 

2. The gauge cluster has always had the "LIGHTS ON" message illuminated. Even when the lights are off. I have occasionally seen the message flicker but have never been able to get the message to go away. I would like for this to be functional, as I am a very forgetful person and have on occasion left my lights on. I do know that my cluster shouldn't be the issue. I have had it rebuilt already. Are the switches known to be flaky?

 

3. The dinger in the cabin that lets you know if you left your keys in the ignition, and the lights on has rarely worked. Once again being a forgetful person have left my keys in the ignition and locked my keys inside.

 

4. The climate control panel lights have been flaky. Some of them would light up, or every one would be off. I can flick the panel to make them come on.  But it is slightly annoying. If this would require a new controller, I can live without it.

 

5. The Velcro that holds up the trunk lining by the rear speakers is extremely weak. I was debating on replacing it with some from the local hardware store, but I think that the fuzzy half is sown into the lining...

 

6. There has been a rattle I believe coming from the transmission ever since I have owned the vehicle. It seems to come and go with the rotation of the wheels if I am at a stop. I can hear it in every gear while sitting still, and on light throttle I can hear it while the transmission is shifting?
I can add a sound clip if needed. I had thoughts I may have a cracked flex-plate, But I would have thought that by now it would have completely broken and I would have lost movement or the ability to start it. The transmission has shifted totally fine and fast so I hope that it isn't anything detrimental.

 

7. There used to be a shock absorber? On the passenger side of the engine compartment right next to the crank pulley, my grandfather was replacing the serpentine belt and snapped the lower stud. I don't know where to find a replacement?

 

8. I believe the engine mounts are junk. There is a fair amount of shake in the steering wheel and noise in the cabin at idle. I haven't been able to find replacements anywhere that are listed for a Riviera. Are there suitable replacements listed for other cars that would work>

 

9. I recently replaced the entire front suspension. After I got a alignment the car pulls heavily to the right. I did notice that the bolt holes that hold the strut mount are slotted. Would that adjustment have something to do with the pull?

 

As of now, those are all the issues that I can think of at this moment. If anyone can help It would be greatly appreciated.

 

Edited September 5, 2021 by 911delorean
Some spelling mistakes (see edit history)

[EmTee]

I'm not an expert on this generation, but I did own a '92 Regal years ago.  Anyway, my $0.02 is provided below...

 

3) Consider yourself lucky - the issue is usually the opposite.

4) If it's like the climate controls in my '92 Le Sabre (which I liked better than the Regal) the issue is likely with the control unit itself.

5) Your proposed solution should work.  If necessary, you can use a needle & thread to 'tack' one half of the Velcro to the lining. 

6) Is there a 'click' coming from the front of the car when slowly turning a corner?  My first thought is worn axle shaft CV joint.  Another possible source of noise is worn hub (i.e., wheel) bearings.  Those usually 'growl' when they're bad.  If really worn, you can feel looseness when trying to rock the wheel when holding it at 6 and 12 o'clock with the wheel off the ground.

8. This is likely and can cause a host of vibrations and noises, including those that you mention.

9) Yes, if you replaced the struts and tie-rod ends you need to have an alignment done.  Another reason for a pull could be a dragging front brake caliper (pull in the direction of the dragging brake).  You can check for that by jacking up the wheel, applying and releasing the brake and verifying the caliper releases by spinning the wheel by hand.  There should be no more than a very light drag.

Edited September 5, 2021 by EmTee
typo (see edit history)

[RivNut]

Swap the front tires side for side. I once had a  at that was always pulling to the right. Swapped the tires and it pulled left. Broken belt in the tire. New set of tires and things were fine.  New Hankooks for crappy Master Crafts.

[911delorean]

Emtee:

6. I wouldn't describe it as a click but more of a metallic rattle. I will attach a sound clip to this post when I get a chance to record it. But I know it is in the engine bay. So I don't think it's a axle...

8. My thought as well. But engine mounts seem to be non existent. I'm having problems just finding the parts to replace them.

9. I did have a alignment done twice. It didn't change. There is a good chance the brake is dragging. I noticed that the pads look to be wearing very uneven on both slides.. So I may have a sticking caliper...

 

RivNut: I don't think they are bad. It didn't pull like this before I did the suspension work. I hope they aren't the problem but ill try and rotate them. They were expensive tires, Cooper CS5s. They have maybe 10k miles on them...

[dship]

I used to own two 7th generation Rivieras.  I'll try to help where I can:

1. Opera lights: try to find working ones in a junk yard.  Remember that if you have a vinyl roof the studs are going to be longer than ones on a non-vinyl roof.  The only ones that I know of that were rebuilt were for the 79-85 rivieras which are of a different design.

2. Change out the light control module*.

4. Change out the climate control module*.

7. You don't really need to replace the vibration absorber (part # 3520659 '90-'93 E body cars) if your engine mounts are doing their job.  Also, most 3800 engines had one...try a junk yard.

8. Check out RockAuto for engine mounts.

 

*Also, there are two parts vendors that might be able to help you with parts since Rivieras and Reattas have many duplicate parts:

Jim Finn, find his info on the AACA Reatta forum.  Marck Barker at his Eastcoast Reatta Parts website. 

[911delorean]

DShip:

1. The design was slightly different but looked extremely close in the pictures that I remember. I don't have a vinyl roof. Shame they can't be rebuilt. Oh well. I may try to find some and figure out how to retrofit a LED into it if I find some spares..

 

2. I assume it's just the light switch by the cluster. Can they be disassembled and cleaned?

4. If I need to replace the module. I won't worry about it. I hardly drive at night anyway.

 

7&8. I already checked Rockauto. The only one they have listed is the dogbone. I'll try and reach out to the people you mentioned to see if they have any or know where to get some or of there are any alternatives. I may be trying to add some more power in the future. So I may try to find some Polyurethane ones. Mine are very cracked from a visual inspection so I wouldn't doubt they are bad.

[dship]

38 minutes ago, 911delorean said:

DShip:

2. I assume it's just the light switch by the cluster. Can they be disassembled and cleaned?

 

They can be disassembled and cleaned, but remember they are 29 years old.  Also, remember they will look slightly different depending whether you have "twilight sentinel" or not if you decide to replace.

Edited September 5, 2021 by dship (see edit history)

[Seafoam65]

Good luck with your search for parts. The  elephant in the room is that parts for 80's and 90's GM cars

are pretty unobtanium. Actually it is easier to find a mint condition life boat that was removed from the Titanic

than it is to find electrical parts for an  80's or 90's GM car. I just bought a 95 Indy Pace Car Corvette and I paid

a large premium to get a 900 mile example so that everything would theoretically still work right on the car

as it really hadn't been used at all, but lo and behold both power mirror motors are bad. I just got lucky and found

probably the last new one on earth on ebay but I'm still looking for the second one.....I figure if I buy a used one it will

go out two weeks after installing it so I hate to go that route. the biggest problem is that the wrecking yards always

unceremoniously crush 80's and 90's cars when they arrive at the yard....not enough demand for parts for them to justify

the space that they take up.

[911delorean]

Yeah its a blessing and curse with parts. The GM parts bin being as it is, some parts plucked from the bin of what is shared on other models. AC components, multifunction stalk,etc. And some stuff like you said is unobtanium.

Not to mention in about 10-20 years the market on them will start to creep up. Just like everything else before it.

[RivNut]

Does your car have the fiber optic ring around the exterior door lock bezel? If the doors are locked,  it lights up when you depress the thumb button.

[911delorean]

Hmm I'll have to check. I have never noticed it. But it being a exterior light I'm going to assume it wouldn't turn on until it got dark. Would it be around the handle or the key hole?

[RivNut]

It will always turn on but you won’t see it in any kind of light, it’s a very small fiber optic ring around the key hole.

 

[RivNut]

Here's a picture of the lighted key bezel

 

Not very clear but hopefully you'll get the idea. It's hard to see through a view finder so it's a point and pray picture.

 

 

 

 

Here's a lit outside opera light. It's not really a bulb but a photo cell of some kind.  I think that Jayson Pruitt figured out how to fix them. Search the members for his contact info.  He's also on the GM E-body group on Facebook.  

[911delorean]

Just checked in pitch black on both sides... Nothing. I may have knocked the fiber off when I replaced the window motor. That is a very cool detail. One more thing on the list I would love to have working now that I know about it. I'm excited to see that someone figured out how to rebuild the opera lights. I really appreciate it.

[RivNut]

Here's a 10 year old thread that Jayson started on the "coach" lights for on his 79-85 Rivieras.

[RivNut]

https://www.instructables.com/Rebuild-Your-Cars-EL-electroluminescent-Lights/

 

I found this on the web (how could we live without Google) and it explains what electroluminescent lights are, how they're completely different than other 12V lamps, and how they work - and wear out.. Perhaps you can figure out something for your lights. 

 

It could be that the key hole lights were an option on my 90. I don't remember my 93 having them but that could have been just an oversight. The only reason that I found them on my 90 was because the battery in my fob was dead and I had to use the key to unlock the door and I turned the key the wrong way and tried to open the door.  Pushing in on the thumb button on the exterior door handle also turns on my interior lights.

[911delorean]

I had found that article as well. If Jayson is capable of doing it, I'll just let him. I found that article as well. But didn't feel comfortable working on them myself. Normally I wouldn't mind opening them up. But I'd rather leave it to a guy who knows what he is doing.

[911delorean]

Whelp just tried messaging Jayson and a couple of other members of the forum. Looks like I'm too much of a noobie, I can't create messages yet. 😔

I also can't seem to find the GM E body group on FB?

 

Anyway, I thought I'd try and post a update:

6. Attempted to get a recording of the rattle I have been hearing. Unfortunately my phone just so happened to completely die on me while recording it, so I am waiting on a new phone. But I noticed while I was trying to record the noise, It seems to not be coming from the transmission at all. It appears to be coming from the catalytic converter. I say this only because when I bent down to pick up my wallet that fell out of my pocket. I noticed the noise was much louder under the car. It may just be coming from the bottom of the transmission as well. I'll do some more checking to make sure. I found a video of a bad catalytic converter making noise. It sounds eerily similar to the noise I have been hearing.

So if my converter is toast. I really don't feel like getting another stock one. They are about 150$ a piece just for the converter. I was looking at ZZP, and they appear to have down pipes that have converters on them that are just a little more expensive. Would any of these even fit? I'd rather just spend the extra bucks on a subtle performance upgrade then having to possibly swap it out in the future... I have some performance plans far in the future in mind.

 

And another problem has cropped up, it looks like I'll be replacing brakes all around. I've got alot of shudder from the back when braking, and starting to get some in the front. Now comes the question. While doing a complete overhaul on the brakes, I'm also going to replace the hoses as well, as I believe they are original. On RockAuto's website they list brake hoses for front and back, but also a center one? Where is this one located? I haven't ever heard of one being in the center.

 

Edited September 9, 2021 by 911delorean
I can message. But not initiate the conversation. (see edit history)

[EmTee]

Converter rattle makes sense; that's a fairly common issue for a car of that vintage.  It seems that you should be able to take the car to a local muffler shop and have them weld-in an aftermarket replacement for a reasonable price (get a couple of phone quotes).  The brake shudder is probably from having the car parked for an extended period.  The rotors rust and sometimes the metallic pads get stuck to the rotor as well.  You can try removing the rotors and cleaning them up with a sander, however, replacements are available at reasonable cost (e.g., Rock Auto has coated rotors for $20 ~ $30 each.  I'm guessing the center hose goes between the chassis and the rear axle -- does it have a beam axle in the rear?

[911delorean]

Yeah, normally I wouldn't mind just getting a new stock style converter. But I plan on doing a engine swap at some point far in the future. I'd rather see if I can fit one of the many different ZZP prefabbed down-pipes in. Probably wouldn't do much on power, but I'm trying to be as smart as I can with my money. And spending about 300$ now on something I can use later for the engine swap make me feel a bit better knowing I can just keep using the high performance one. I'd rather do some research first to see if I can even do it.

 

And the car is my daily. So the brakes rusting over, is highly unlikely. I had planned on swapping all the brakes over anyway, as I have no idea the last time they were ever done. And it'll give me peace of mind knowing that the brakes are fresh. And I wouldn't call it a shudder, more of a awful vibration. It's actually so bad I can see the vibration in my rear view mirror. 😆

[EmTee]

Does the parking brake work?  Are the rear wheels free when not applying the brake?

[911delorean]

Yeah the parking brake works. I use it every time I park no matter what. I really want to say that the rotors are either original, or are ancient replacements. When I got the car my grandfather said "He just had brakes done". Which if I had to guess probably means his mechanic just did a pad slap and called it good.

 

[EmTee]

Yup, you're probably right.  New rotors are cheap - that's what I'd recommend.

[Barney Eaton]

As others have noted,  your Riviera and the Reatta share a lot of hidden parts and Reatta owners look for Rivieras for parts as many more Rivieras were made. 

The 1986-1989 Riviera used similar electronic parts...they had the CRT dash.   Both the Riviera and Reatta went to a more conventional dash in 1990 and that continued thru 1993 on the Riviera. 

An instrument cluster will interchange during that period, as will many more non body parts.    It may be helpful for you to search the AACA site under Reatta for questions as many of the items you have problems with are the same on the Reatta. 

On your item #4..the dash HVAC controller can be a problem but is usually fixable by opening it and cleaning the contacts...at the same time you can change any bulbs that have failed.   Instruction are on Ronnie's site which is Reattaowners.com    You can also find the latest info on engine cradle mounts.    I wrote an article for the Reatta newsletter on problems with under the seat wiring.   If the car leaked rain water and it settled in the wiring channels, there are several splices that can rust/corrode and cause various electrical problems.    I sent the article to Ray Knox and I believe he ran it in the ROA publication ...probably in the last year. 

The lighting problem with the "R" on the C post might be an inverter.    On Reattas there were 2 inverters,  they look like relays, but have either a pink or light blue body,  they convert 12v to 120 for the electro-luminesent items in the car.    Someone with electronic training might be able to provide info on modern (we are dealing with 30 year old technology) version of the inverter.   GM also used a "Central Power supply" for certain components.   Some items in the electronics needed 5v and the central power supply did that..... today it would probably be done with a chip.

 

[911delorean]

Update: DShip

I am taking the lighting switch panel apart now. I did notice a couple things. I will attach some pictures of my findings.

A piece of plastic was broken off for a contact of some kind.

There is a piece of metal sticking out of the pcb that doesn't have any solder on it at all

There are a couple of round contacts that had some burn marks on them.

And all of the "grease" had turned sticky. So I'll be trying my best to clean it all up. And I see a broken pin on the last photo.

Edited September 13, 2021 by 911delorean
added another picture (see edit history)

[911delorean]

Also should mention. The "rebuild" fixed the problem I was having with the cluster. It now correctly shows if my lights are on.

 

I also just found a few new problems.

1. My ignition won't let me turn it to the accessory position?

2. And the turn signal won't auto-off when turning left.

3. There seems to be some play in the wheel, up and down. So I guess the column is loose?

[RivNut]

#3. The 95-99 Riviera’s were notorious for steering columns moving right and left.  There’s a pretty simple fix that I found on the old Riviera Performance website. I don’t know if your 92 and the 95-99 had similar columns.  Cracked pot metal bracket.

[EmTee]

My experience is that #1 usually results from a worn key.  Don't take your key to Ace Hardware and have the cashier duplicate the worn key on their 'tracer'.  Go to a locksmith and have them read the key and cut a new one based on the code.

[911delorean]

Do they have the VATS pellet in them?

[EmTee]

The locksmith should have the proper blank, or be able to swap the pellet to the new key.

[RivNut]

On my 93 I had a problem every once in a while where the frog hair wires in the switch would not make contact or give a poor reading from the chip in the key. The car wouldn’t start until I had let it sit for 10 minutes or so.  The guy who works on my cars suggested that I have him install a chip, the same ohms as the chip, inline.  I did and never had the problem again. I’ve since had him do the same thing to my 90 Riviera and my 94 Roadmaster wagon.  No apprehension each time I approach the cars knowing that problem has been eliminated.

[911delorean]

I know the VATS is a very common thing to go bad and eliminate. But I'll be frank, the only times I have had a issue with it, is when my battery is bad. I would actually prefer to keep it intact. Until it does indeed become a detriment to the cars functionallity, and start giving me repeat issues.

 

I actually wouldn't mind going to a dealer and asking if they still make these keys. It would give me a excuse to get me a spare key, in case I loose my original set.

Edited September 14, 2021 by 911delorean
grammar (see edit history)

[911delorean]

Update: Rivnut, it looks like you were correct about my loose steering wheel. I had a good day to diagnose it. The metal bracket is cracked and shattered on both bolt holes.

 

Now the question is how do I fix this and can I get the part?