Stalling

[Ereatta]

I changed a few vacuum lines, specifically the one from the vacuum tank to the triple valve and the 2 lines from there. I do not remember where this goes (see picture) line on the left with rust on it next to the a/c component. Any help is appreciated. I haven't tested the fuel pump because the person I purchased the Reatta from, said he changed it. 

[padgett]

What year ? Doesn't look like the dryer is connected. AC clutch ?

[Ereatta]

I changed the a/c clutch because it was worn maybe I left a wire unplugged? What's the line here? Its has air going in because when I put my finger on it, the engine power lowers as if it is about to stall 89'  What is the dryer?

[Ronnie]

21 minutes ago, Ereatta said:

What's the line here? Its has air going in because when I put my finger on it, the engine power lowers as if it is about to stall 89' 

 

I think it is the vacuum line that goes to the purge canister but not sure about that. As you can see in my photo there should be a short rubber line that connects the steel line to a smaller hard plastic line.

 

[Ereatta]

i replaced the short rubber line with a regular vacuum line because it looked worn, then that shorter plastic line that's shaped like a z connects to what? the purge canister? thanks for your replies

Edited September 23, 2020 by Ereatta
specific (see edit history)

[Ronnie]

There are two steel lines. One connects to the transmission modulator valve and the other to the purge line I described before.

[Ereatta]

Is the location to where it goes under the air filter?

Edited September 23, 2020 by Ereatta
Pictures (see edit history)

[Ronnie]

I can't tell much from your photo but on my car it appears go under the fuse box. I think that is where the purge canister is located.

[Ereatta]

Okay, managed to find where it goes. The car still stalls. I think this occurs when there is less than half a tank of gas. The person I purchased the vehicle from, said he changed the fuel pump. I replaced the fuel pump relay, so that's out of question. Maybe a connection in the fuel pump circuit? Because, ever since I purchased it, the car does not start without pressing on the gas pedal first, giving it some gas, then it starts...any ideas? 

[2seater]

I believe you have an issue with the idle air control if it requires additional air via the throttle to get started, or, the throttle position sensor is misadjusted. Do you know how to get into diagnostics to read codes or sensor data?

[Ereatta]

Is the iac that thing that needs cleaning? I cleaned that. It must be the throttle position sensor, but why does it not show in the diagnostic read? How should the sensor be adjusted, through the computer? The computer shows E044 running lean, I haven't changed the oxygen sensor yet, figuring that may solve it. I also put cleaning agents in the tank because it was sitting around with a full gas tank for 2 years. I don't if that would cause it to run lean. 

Edited October 1, 2020 by Ereatta (see edit history)

[padgett]

TPS is ED01. Should be about .4v at idle and over 4v WOT. IAC command is ED22, IAC override is ES09.

 

BTW, stepping on the accelerator does not "give it gas", it just opens the butterfly.

[Ereatta]

7 hours ago, padgett said:

TPS is ED01. Should be about .4v at idle and over 4v WOT. IAC command is ED22, IAC override is ES09.

 

BTW, stepping on the accelerator does not "give it gas", it just opens the butterfly.

Okay, so I went to the ECM level, everything seemed in range, except the

oxygen sensor voltage was .2 ED07

Knock sensor activity was at a whopping 245  ED17

oxygen sensor cross counts ED18 was 0

 

The throttle position sensor was .42 at idle as soon as i drove it out of the parking it stalled 

I'm going to inspect the vacuum tubes again 

 

 

[2seater]

I would certainly verify the fuel pressure is what it should be. I just went through this issue with an '89 that had difficulty starting, but would run after starting. Found the fuel pressure was 33psi maximum and when the tank was pulled and the pump removed, the pump looked brand new, but the hose that replaced the factory pulsator would slip right off with little resistance. I believe the unclamped hose leaked enough to keep the fuel pressure at a bare maintenance level only. The O2 reading is indeed dead lean, so either it is defective, the ECM has an issue or the fuel supply is inadequate. That said, the O2 sensor must be good and hot to get reliable readings. 

[Ereatta]

1 minute ago, 2seater said:

I would certainly verify the fuel pressure is what it should be. I just went through this issue with an '89 that had difficulty starting, but would run after starting. Found the fuel pressure was 33psi maximum and when the tank was pulled and the pump removed, the pump looked brand new, but the hose that replaced the factory pulsator would slip right off with little resistance. I believe the unclamped hose leaked enough to keep the fuel pressure at a bare maintenance level only. The O2 reading is indeed dead lean, so either it is defective, the ECM has an issue or the fuel supply is inadequate. That said, the O2 sensor must be good and hot to get reliable readings. 

if the fuel supply is inadequate would the sensor show lean? There is only one sensor? I'll change the oxygen sensor and go from there?

[2seater]

1 minute ago, Ereatta said:

if the fuel supply is inadequate would the sensor show lean? There is only one sensor? I'll change the oxygen sensor and go from there?

It never hurts to install a new O2 sensor. I cannot say for certain if it would show lean if it causes a misfire or anything else to upset the exhaust in the pipe. Yes, there is only the one O2 sensor in the rear exhaust manifold.

[Barney Eaton]

Since the car is new to you..... you may have more than one problem. 

Check the fuel pressure when you have problems a 1/2 tank.... they may have installed a new fuel pump but that does not mean it was done correctly,  There is a hose connection at the top of the pump and when the fuel level gets to that connection, it could cause problems if it is loose, cracked etc. 

The knock sensor causes the ECM to adjust the fuel richer and retarts the timing.  

A vacumn leak is a common cause for the car not to idel properly,    One check for a vacumn leak is the cruise control will it set and hold?

2 seater and others here are the engine experts. 

[Ereatta]

2 minutes ago, Barney Eaton said:

Since the car is new to you..... you may have more than one problem. 

Check the fuel pressure when you have problems a 1/2 tank.... they may have installed a new fuel pump but that does not mean it was done correctly,  There is a hose connection at the top of the pump and when the fuel level gets to that connection, it could cause problems if it is loose, cracked etc. 

The knock sensor causes the ECM to adjust the fuel richer and retarts the timing.  

A vacumn leak is a common cause for the car not to idel properly,    One check for a vacumn leak is the cruise control will it set and hold?

2 seater and others here are the engine experts. 

I feel like it would drive fine if the tank is full. Does the gas tank need to be drained to check the fuel pump and connections around it? I do believe there is a cruise control error, The one that says "cruise control may be disengaged or something". I haven't driven it in a while so... these errors come up only when I drive around a bit. I replaced a few vacuum tube connections, but when I listen closely around the air filter area, still sounds like a leak. So is 245 in the ecm okay for a knock sensor? I think I'm going to try this step as well

"Pull the vacuum line off the fuel pressure regulator and see if gasoline is present in the line. If gasoline is present in the line the fuel pressure regulator is defective and should be replaced before doing the fuel pressure tests. A bad fuel pressure regulator with gasoline in the line can cause the following symptoms:  black exhaust - rough running - hard to start unless pressing down on the accelerator pedal."

[padgett]

oxygen sensor voltage was .2 ED07

oxygen sensor cross counts ED18 was 0

Bad O2 particularly if running for over a minute or two. Replace from top, is next to #6 spark plug.

 

Knock sensor activity was at a whopping 245  ED17

Common at startup, should not increase after running a bit.

[Ronnie]

10 minutes ago, Ereatta said:

when I listen closely around the air filter area, still sounds like a leak.

 

You should check all these vacuum lines. If they are original they may look good but when squeezed they will crumble in your hand. Another source for vacuum leaks is the PCV valve on the passenger side of the intake manifold.

 

 

 

 

Edited October 2, 2020 by Ronnie (see edit history)

[Ereatta]

1 minute ago, padgett said:

oxygen sensor voltage was .2 ED07

oxygen sensor cross counts ED18 was 0

Bad O2 particularly if running for over a minute or two. Replace from top, is next to #6 spark plug.

 

Knock sensor activity was at a whopping 245  ED17

Common at startup, should not increase after running a bit.

Got it.

[Ereatta]

4 minutes ago, Ronnie said:

 

You should check all these vacuum lines. If they are original they may look good but when squeezed they will crumble in your hand. Another source for vacuum leaks is the PCV valve on the passenger s

 

 

 

 

Those 3 in the first picture, and the bottom one in the 2nd picture I swapped with new, the one going to the brake pedal is difficult to track. So if the vacuum tubes are still intact but have that crumbly feel, it is best to change with new?

[Ronnie]

6 minutes ago, Ereatta said:

So if the vacuum tubes are still intact but have that crumbly feel, it is best to change with new?

I would.

[Ereatta]

So basically, complete overhaul? 😊

[Ronnie]

If they feel rotten and tend to crumble I would replace them. Cheap insurance against future problems even if they aren't leaking now.

[2seater]

If you are in the process of looking at vacuum leaks, do not overlook the pcv system buried under the rear spark plug wires behind the intake plenum on the passengers side, sort of behind the power steering pump. Vacuum line replacement is inexpensive and a good idea if suspect. I have found even if not brittle, if they leave a black residue when running your hands over them, they are getting porous and may seep.

[padgett]

Vacuum gauge will tell. I have a MityVac.

 

ps #4 "vacuum switch" is on the brake pedal.

[Ereatta]

On 10/1/2020 at 10:30 PM, padgett said:

Vacuum gauge will tell. I have a MityVac.

 

ps #4 "vacuum switch" is on the brake pedal.

Is it the same procedure with the vacuum pump as the gauge? 

[padgett]

With the MityVac you do not need to run the engine.

[Ereatta]

okay.

1st try : the reading first springed to 42 then to 35 and gradually to 32

2nd : sprung up to 42 then again rapidly movement to 35 then gradually quick to 24

3rd: 42 for 2 seconds than same and gradually down to 22 psi

 

i have the recording of the test on video, does not fit in this reply 

Edited October 22, 2020 by Ereatta
detail (see edit history)

[Ereatta]

On 10/1/2020 at 9:32 AM, padgett said:

TPS is ED01. Should be about .4v at idle and over 4v WOT. IAC command is ED22, IAC override is ES09.

 

BTW, stepping on the accelerator does not "give it gas", it just opens the butterfly.

"WOT" While .... ....? the tps doesnt go over 2.3 when revving while idle

[avgwarhawk]

WOT is wide open throttle. 

[Ronnie]

The correct way to check the TPS is with the key on, engine not running.

 

ED01 in diagnostics should read about .4 with the throttle completely closed. If not adjust the TPS so it does.

 

Then with the key on, engine not running, slowly press down on the accelerator while watching ED01. What you want to see is a smooth increase in voltage until you reach WOT. WOT should be about 4 volts as Padgett said. If you see any drops or spikes in the voltage as you open the throttle, I would do more testing or probably just replace the TPS.

 

Edited October 29, 2020 by Ronnie (see edit history)

[Ereatta]

2 minutes ago, Ronnie said:

The correct way to check the TPS is with the key on, engine not running.

 

ED01 in diagnostics should read about .4 with the throttle completely closed. If not adjust the TPS so it does.

 

Then with the key on, engine not running, slowly press down on the accelerator while watching ED01. What you want to see is a smooth increase in voltage until you reach WOT. WOT should be about 4 volts as Padgett said. If you see any drops or spikes in the voltage as you open the throttle replace the TPS.

Thank you for your very informative response, so replacement without adjustment first? 

[Ronnie]

No. As I said in my second sentence, check it first and adjust to .4 volts if needed. Then check to make sure voltage increases smoothly all the way to wide open throttle.

[Ereatta]

.4 at idle and smooth increase to 4.28-30

[Ronnie]

It appears to me your TPS is working properly. That is about the same numbers I get on my car.

 

Would you restate what the problem is you are trying to fix please. This thread is getting pretty long and I've forgot. Also post what year your Reatta is. Or better still add the year of your Reatta to your signature line in your profile and we won't have to repeatedly ask you.

[Ereatta]

Okay. 89 Reatta . Your really Bidening me right now, Ronnie. So after an a.m. of stalling and hours of crank and no start. Just now I filled two more gallons of fuel and it started. This only leaves one culprit, the fuel assembly hoses, any nay sayers? 

 

Fuel Tank To Filler Tube Hose Replacement tutorial 

is this the correct tutorial on this ?

 

Thank you for your response

[Ereatta]

On 10/1/2020 at 7:56 PM, Barney Eaton said:

Since the car is new to you..... you may have more than one problem. 

Check the fuel pressure when you have problems a 1/2 tank.... they may have installed a new fuel pump but that does not mean it was done correctly,  There is a hose connection at the top of the pump and when the fuel level gets to that connection, it could cause problems if it is loose, cracked etc. 

The knock sensor causes the ECM to adjust the fuel richer and retarts the timing.  

A vacumn leak is a common cause for the car not to idel properly,    One check for a vacumn leak is the cruise control will it set and hold?

2 seater and others here are the engine experts. 

So it's definitely the fuel pressure when there is half a tank. Barney, is this the correct tutorial?

 

[padgett]

I'd check the fuel pressure at the rail first, should be over 40 psi at idle.