Noobie and his '39 Century

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

18 minutes ago, EmTee said:

I agree.  Here's what I see:

 

 

 

 Read the "b" as a "6".   Upside down as a "9".   An "I" is a "1". Made for more difficulty changing numbers, I suppose.

 

  Ben

[markewebb '39 Buick Team]

On 12/8/2022 at 10:40 PM, C-Lamb said:

Thanks Mark, that was my understanding of the process.  That's a bunch of 80 year old fasteners to get apart and replace - I'm sure there will be some part of unobtainium mixed in there too.   And once I get that far, I should probably drop the transmission and clean it, check the clutch system out and replace the rear main seal... at which point I will have converted my running / driving vehicle to a kit, which I'm trying to avoid by tackling small projects. 

 

Since mine wasn't vibrating noticeably yet, is there anything I can do given condition of my boot to protect it, like packing with grease and patching with a piece of inner tube? No way to replace the boot w/out dropping the axle etc?   I'll contact Bob's and see what the have.  I think Steele Rubber had some too. 

 

Looks like Bob's still has them $450 including $150 core charge. 

"No way to replace the boot w/out dropping the axle etc?"  I once asked the late Earl Beauchamp (AKA Dynaflash8) this same question.  He said the "easiest" way is to disconnect the rear shock links, torque tube bolts, torque ball bolts, and brake lines then ratchet back the axel.  Earl gave me the following advice, based on the pic below of my split torque ball boot:  "But, that said, if it is like that on the outside, it's probably steel to steel on the inside and you might actually need that new inner torque ball.  Matter of fact the way the outside looks you may even need the outer torque ball.  You don't want there to be any scoring on either of the steel parts. READ THE BOOKS FIRST.  That front shaft has to fall slowly, repeat slowly after it's all put back together."   

 

If it were my car, I'd attempt a patch to the boot as you suggested, AND start looking now for the driveline parts you may need someday.  Shims and boot are available new. NOS torque balls, universal joints, Hyatt bearing assemblies, and seals, these parts do come up for sale occasionally.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

[C-Lamb]

On 12/13/2022 at 11:09 PM, markewebb '39 Buick Team said:

"No way to replace the boot w/out dropping the axle etc?"  I once asked the late Earl Beauchamp (AKA Dynaflash8) this same question.  He said the "easiest" way is to disconnect the rear shock links, torque tube bolts, torque ball bolts, and brake lines then ratchet back the axel.  Earl gave me the following advice, based on the pic below of my split torque ball boot:  "But, that said, if it is like that on the outside, it's probably steel to steel on the inside and you might actually need that new inner torque ball.  Matter of fact the way the outside looks you may even need the outer torque ball.  You don't want there to be any scoring on either of the steel parts. READ THE BOOKS FIRST.  That front shaft has to fall slowly, repeat slowly after it's all put back together."   

 

If it were my car, I'd attempt a patch to the boot as you suggested, AND start looking now for the driveline parts you may need someday.  Shims and boot are available new. NOS torque balls, universal joints, Hyatt bearing assemblies, and seals, these parts do come up for sale occasionally.  
 

 

 

 

Any suggestions if I should fill the boot with grease or anything like that, or just try to close it up to keep the dirt out?

[1939_Buick]

2 hours ago, C-Lamb said:

Any suggestions if I should fill the boot with grease or anything like that, or just try to close it up to keep the dirt out?

Your torque ball friend -->   https://forums.aaca.org/topic/389949-1939-buick-40-series-torque-ball-mounts-boot-and-a-heater/#comment-2467360

 

[markewebb '39 Buick Team]

On 12/18/2022 at 7:22 PM, C-Lamb said:

Any suggestions if I should fill the boot with grease or anything like that, or just try to close it up to keep the dirt out?

I don't know enough to intelligently answer.  My assumption is put nothing in there.

[markewebb '39 Buick Team]

The seals, parts AO on the diagram from pg 126-A of the Master Parts Book, will probably be the hardest to find.   The front seal group # 5.469 1308321 and the rear # 5.469 1308322.  In the past, some have found suitable seals, if anyone knows of suitable seals, please share that information.  

 

[C-Lamb]

3 hours ago, markewebb '39 Buick Team said:

The seals, parts AO on the diagram from pg 126-A of the Master Parts Book, will probably be the hardest to find.   The front seal group # 5.469 1308321 and the rear # 5.469 1308322.  In the past, some have found suitable seals, if anyone knows of suitable seals, please share that information.  

 

Yeah, that's kind of what I'm afraid of, it's a literal can of worms filled with hard to find parts.  For now, I think I'll just try to seal it up to keep dirt out, once I finish the front stabilizer link replacement (and maybe bushings if I can find them, first set doesn't seem quite right).

 

And thank you for the great pointers and part numbers!! 

Edited December 23, 2022 by C-Lamb (see edit history)

[C-Lamb]

Front end disassembled, shocks sent off to Apple, we'll see what happens next. 

New stabilizer bar links in hand via e-bay.  Looks like many modern cars use the same part?

 

As others have noted, stabilizer to frame bushing are welded up - mine seem sufficient, so I guess I'll work with those for now. 

 

Lower control arms removed, so cleaning those and related parts is the next challenge, hopefully back together in a few weeks... we'll see. 

[C-Lamb]

Well, it's been awhile since I updated this thread, lots of life in the way in 2023 and 2024.  Since then I've gotten stuff done, but it's been slow:

• Shocks rebuilt, painted, and installed. 
• Control arms and brake backer plate powder coated
• Front end of frame etc. cleaned and painted.
• Reassembled and lubbed up. 
• Changed transmission fluid. 
• Changed diff fluid. 
• Filled steering gear.
• Bled brakes.

Today drove it 4mi each way to town for a show, no issues, but definitely an interesting drive.  Hard to believe it would get to 60mph without being really wound up.  Haven't addressed the torque ball yet.  Seems like there's a lot of play in the drive line as you shift from accelerating to decellerating.  Definitely need to deal with the rear shocks soon and seems like one of the clutch bearing is noisy.  Goal is to get drivability to where it feels reliable for trips of 30 miles or so.

 

I'll try to start adding a few pictures now. 

 

 

[C-Lamb]

[C-Lamb]

[C-Lamb]

[C-Lamb]

Here's a video to me driving off: https://photos.app.goo.gl/MEustnztnmH4KSut5

 

Thanks for the support!

[1939_Buick]

Thanks for the update.

Have you acquired new front engine mounts?

The rubber mounts on the trailing arms near the torque ball can also fail. All help the drive line feel when driving.

 

Edited September 15 by 1939_Buick (see edit history)

[C-Lamb]

Good point '39.   I need to replace basically everything rubber - window trim down to mounts.   I'll start looking at those, it's something I can do w/o too much disassembly I hope.

 

I think I'm going to work on the oil pump next - pressure is pretty low at hot idle.

 

I also kinda want to get the dash off so I can clean up the wiring a bit, it's hard looking up from underneath to do much.  In addition to sorting out lights, I need to figure out why the speedometer is disconnected and and if I can restore the fan to functional.

 

I probably have to deal with the torque ball soon, but I'm trying to ignore it as I suspect it's not something I can R&R over a few evenings or a weekend, even if I could get parts/rebuild kit.    For longer trips, really would like an overdrive or new rear end, but that all seems impractical.

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

1 hour ago, C-Lamb said:

 

 

I think I'm going to work on the oil pump next - pressure is pretty low at hot idle.

   For longer trips, really would like an overdrive or new rear end, but that all seems impractical.

 

 Looking good C-Lamb.

 

     You will PROBABLY find the screen on the oil pump pickup float is at least partially plugged.   35# at or above 35 mph is spec.   Any thing above 0 at idle is adequate.

 

  From experience,  an overdrive will be more satisfying, in my opinion.   I did a later gear set [ 3.36 ] in my 50.    Impractical??   You bet.   But nice.

 

  Ben

[C-Lamb]

1 hour ago, Ben Bruce aka First Born said:

 

 Looking good C-Lamb.

 

     You will PROBABLY find the screen on the oil pump pickup float is at least partially plugged.   35# at or above 35 mph is spec.   Any thing above 0 at idle is adequate.

 

  From experience,  an overdrive will be more satisfying, in my opinion.   I did a later gear set [ 3.36 ] in my 50.    Impractical??   You bet.   But nice.

 

  Ben

I'm not convinced that an overdrive is much easier to find or install than a 3.6 rear end!   It probably is, but they seem pretty scarce and complex to work into the driveline.

[C-Lamb]

Retuning to the torque ball topic... how do I know when it's bad?

[Matt Harwood]

4 minutes ago, C-Lamb said:

Retuning to the torque ball topic... how do I know when it's bad?

The oil puddle on your floor will tell you.

[C-Lamb]

36 minutes ago, Matt Harwood said:

The oil puddle on your floor will tell you.

What about play/wear? Thunk on starting/deceleration? Any thing I should look out for?

[EmTee]

10 hours ago, C-Lamb said:

What about play/wear? Thunk on starting/deceleration? Any thing I should look out for?

Matt said it -- OIL!  If it's NOT leaking, there are only two possibilities:

1. The torque ball seal is good and functioning as designed, or

2. The transmission is low on oil from a leaky torque ball seal.

 

If the transmission is full and there's no puddle on the floor, leave it alone; it will tell you when it needs to be replaced!