1936 Chrysler Airstream C-8 Convertible Restoration

[Roger Zimmermann]

On the fifth picture, it is obvious that the lever on which a handle is attached is bent. I would correct this before installation. Thos wiper motors can be overhauled in case the sealing material is worn. A vacuum test is mandatory before you are installing it.

[Professor]

Thanks Roger.  I vacuum tested the units and they work perfectly now.  With respect to the bend, I agree.  However, the bend is necessary in order for the control mechanism to clear the dash cutouts.  If I bend those levers straight, then the controls will not clear the dash.  I suspect that these wiper motors are not the original units, but I tried looking up the numbers printed on the body of the units and came up blank.  My parts manual lists a chrysler number and not the Trico number.  If I figure out that these units are incorrect, and I can find the correct units, I will replace them.  Until then, there will be bent levers lurking behind my dash.  The good part is that the wipers work and the bends cannot be seen when the units are installed.

 

Joe

[Roger Zimmermann]

Joe, thanks for the explanation which make sense!

[VW4X4]

I've seen those wiper motor arm bent like that from the factor.  DOn't straighten them...  Otherwise I don't think they will fit in the dash .....   

 

On another note,   The hard top Airstreams, had a single wiper motor, and rods connecting both wiper mounts. This was all for the split window I assume.   You would think, it would be the other way around.

 

ERIC

[Jeff Hansen]

In looking at my 1949 Trico book, KSB-385 (passenger side) and KSB-386 (driver's side) are original equipment motors for 1938 Dodge closed cars and commercial cab trucks as well as 1938 Plymouth closed cars and pickup and light delivery trucks.  The book lists KSB-346 (driver's side) and KSB-345 (passenger side) for 1936 C-8 convertibles.  For universal replacements, the book indicates the following for the the 345 and 346 numbers:

• Driver's side (to replace KSB-346), use motor KSB-600
• Passenger side (to replace KSB-345), use motor KSB-600-1

 

Hope this is helpful.

Jeff

[Professor]

Thanks Jeff.  It appears that the parts I have are incorrect for my application… I will add these parts to my search list.  I am glad the units I have actually work until I find the correct ones.  It makes me wonder if the units I have were bent intentionally to make them fit or if they came from the factory that way.  Time for me to do a bit more searching!

 

Thanks again!

 

7 hours ago, Jeff Hansen said:

In looking at my 1949 Trico book, KSB-385 (passenger side) and KSB-386 (driver's side) are original equipment motors for 1938 Dodge closed cars and commercial cab trucks as well as 1938 Plymouth closed cars and pickup and light delivery trucks.  The book lists KSB-346 (driver's side) and KSB-345 (passenger side) for 1936 C-8 convertibles.  For universal replacements, the book indicates the following for the the 345 and 346 numbers:

• Driver's side (to replace KSB-346), use motor KSB-600
• Passenger side (to replace KSB-345), use motor KSB-600-1

 

Hope this is helpful.

Jeff

 

[Professor]

Thanks Eric.  I am leaving these alone because they work, but if I find the correct parts for my car, I will try to put these units in the hands of someone with the appropriate car/truck.  If they are bent, they will be easy to remove and bend back.

 

Joe

 

8 hours ago, VW4X4 said:

I've seen those wiper motor arm bent like that from the factor.  DOn't straighten them...  Otherwise I don't think they will fit in the dash .....   

 

On another note,   The hard top Airstreams, had a single wiper motor, and rods connecting both wiper mounts. This was all for the split window I assume.   You would think, it would be the other way around.

 

ERIC

 

[Professor]

15 January Update:

 

I spent yesterday removing the glass from the right hand side instrument pod and cleaning the faces of each instrument.  The instruments faces do not appear to be painted, but rather, look (and feel) like some sort of metalic foil.  I used some water mixed with Dawn detergent and Q-Tips to clean the instrument faces and Q-Tips with fresh water to rinse the faces.  I am pleased with the result although it took quite a bit of time.  This week I should get in the proper overdrive speedometer and then I will take it apart and clean it.  For some odd reason, I enjoy the small detail aspects of bringing this car back to life.

 

Joe

 

[VW4X4]

That gauge unit is in good shape.   You have the extremely rare clock option.  I've been looking to do something with this space for a long time.  Most Airstreams have a filler plate in this location.  How did you disconnect your Temp. gauge? Did you have to remove the entire cable down to the engine?  I have not found any other way of doing this, and unfortunately the fitting in the engines are typically so bad it destroys the cable and gauge.

 

ERIC

Edited January 16, 2022 by VW4X4 (see edit history)

[Professor]

Hi Eric,

 

There are two screws on the back of the instrument cluster that hold in the temperature gauge.  I just unscrewed the two screws and let the temperature gauge stay in the interior.  I cleaned it while it was hanging from the firewall and then screwed the temperature gauge back into the instrument cluster and then installed the cluster.

 

Here is a question for you (or anyone), my master cylinder brake light switch has two circular female connectors that accept a male plug.  Unfortunately, the Rhode Island Wiring harness has a round connector that takes a screw to hold it in.  I wonder if I have the wrong brake light switch.

 

Joe

[Professor]

By the way Eric, here is a clock unit for sale on fleabay that appears to be identical to mine:

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/384299557394?hash=item597a09e212:g:RzsAAOSwZmRgyf13

 

It is crazy expensive at $500 (in my opinion)

 

Joe

[VW4X4]

38 minutes ago, ... and Professor said:

Hi Eric,

 

There are two screws on the back of the instrument cluster that hold in the temperature gauge.  I just unscrewed the two screws and let the temperature gauge stay in the interior.  I cleaned it while it was hanging from the firewall and then screwed the temperature gauge back into the instrument cluster and then installed the cluster.

 

Here is a question for you (or anyone), my master cylinder brake light switch has two circular female connectors that accept a male plug.  Unfortunately, the Rhode Island Wiring harness has a round connector that takes a screw to hold it in.  I wonder if I have the wrong brake light switch.

 

Joe

Joe,   The brake light switch on all my C7 Airstreams is remotely mounted on the frame. When stepping on the brake pedal a spring

pulls on the switch, turning on the lights.  This sounds just light your setup. It requires the bullet plugs, as you have described.  That said, in all the manuals I've seen, they all show a pressure switch mounted in the master cylinder, that requires ring terminals.  I don't have a clue why the mix up, but unfortunately I think your going to find more of these issues.

 

ERIC

 

 

[VW4X4]

44 minutes ago, ... and Professor said:

By the way Eric, here is a clock unit for sale on fleabay that appears to be identical to mine:

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/384299557394?hash=item597a09e212:g:RzsAAOSwZmRgyf13

 

It is crazy expensive at $500 (in my opinion)

 

Joe

WHILE!   This guy claims it works on 6 or 12 volts. Fits an Airflow. I know the Airlfow dash is slightly different.

I messaged him..... I probably should buy it, but its against my morals to spend that much money, and help

sellers like that prostitute the antique car hobby.    Thanks for posting this.

ERIc

 

[Professor]

Eric,

 

I took a closer look at this clock and the finish on the face is not the same as mine. If you look closely, the finish on my instrument panel has a bit of a gold sparkle to it and the clock that is for sale is single color.  At first I thought it was just faded, but I think you are right, the finish on the Airflow clock is not the same as the finish on an Airstream clock.

 

Joe

 

 

1 hour ago, VW4X4 said:

WHILE!   This guy claims it works on 6 or 12 volts. Fits an Airflow. I know the Airlfow dash is slightly different.

I messaged him..... I probably should buy it, but its against my morals to spend that much money, and help

sellers like that prostitute the antique car hobby.    Thanks for posting this.

ERIc

 

 

[Professor]

Eric,

 

I asked a friend of mine, Ron Lyons, who has two original C8s to take a look at his cars and he indicated that one car had a remote mounted brake switch and the other had a switch on the master cylinder with a threaded connection.  With all the years under the belts of these cars, who knows how many changes have been made OR whether or not the factory produced two different types of brake light switches.

 

Joe

 

1 hour ago, VW4X4 said:

Joe,   The brake light switch on all my C7 Airstreams is remotely mounted on the frame. When stepping on the brake pedal a spring

pulls on the switch, turning on the lights.  This sounds just light your setup. It requires the bullet plugs, as you have described.  That said, in all the manuals I've seen, they all show a pressure switch mounted in the master cylinder, that requires ring terminals.  I don't have a clue why the mix up, but unfortunately I think your going to find more of these issues.

 

ERIC

 

 

 

[VW4X4]

1 hour ago, ... and Professor said:

Eric,

 

I asked a friend of mine, Ron Lyons, who has two original C8s to take a look at his cars and he indicated that one car had a remote mounted brake switch and the other had a switch on the master cylinder with a threaded connection.  With all the years under the belts of these cars, who knows how many changes have been made OR whether or not the factory produced two different types of brake light switches.

 

Joe

 

 

The pressure switch in the master cylinder is a much simplified setup.  I think this is why it could quickly have been adapter and look like factory original. The remote mounted switch requires several small and unusual parts, that I have never seen on any other make or model.  In those days car manufacturers didn't out source much.  A good example of, not out sourcing, would be the hardware, in your car.    Almost all the hardware in your car was actually made by Chrysler.  You can tell by looking closely at the head of the bolts. See attached.  Note the DPCD symbol. 

So, if you want my opinion I'm going to go with the remote switch, but can't blame you if you go with the pressure switch. 

 

ERIC

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Professor]

17 January Update:

 

Began installing the wiring harnesses.  I have the main body harness installed and when I tested the tail lights and brake lights, I found out that the grounds on the passenger side rear tail light were bad so I added a ground wire.  I installed the dash harness and connected it to the main body harness and have everything ready to begin wiring up and testing each system.

 

Additionally, my factory overdrive speedometer arrived today, as did the factory shift knob, factory headlight switch, and a spare hubcap and door striker mechanisms (mine are broke).  Lots more work to do, but I feel like I am making progress.

 

Joe

 

 

[VW4X4]

Joe ,

 Are you aware of the light beam indicator light?   Its a light bulb built into the head light switch.  I'm guessing your is missing since you had a different switch in there originally.  Better to install it now rather than after its all together. IT actually shines down the center of the light switch knob.

    Now, where in the world are you getting all those parts...??

 The only place would be those very expensive vendors."?

 

ERIc

[Professor]

A friend of mine, Ron Lyons, owns 30-ish mid 30s mopars and has quite reasonable prices.  I have encouraged him to join this forum.  PM me if you want his contact information.  I will touch bases with him to make sure I can give out his phone number.

 

Joe

 

20 minutes ago, VW4X4 said:

Joe ,

 Are you aware of the light beam indicator light?   Its a light bulb built into the head light switch.  I'm guessing your is missing since you had a different switch in there originally.  Better to install it now rather than after its all together. IT actually shines down the center of the light switch knob.

    Now, where in the world are you getting all those parts...??

 The only place would be those very expensive vendors."?

 

ERIc

 

[Professor]

Hi Eric,

 

I have a replacement light switch, but I need to repair it in order to use it.  I am hopeful I can get it working so that the high beam indicator shines through the center of the knob as it should. I have not been able to find a working used light switch for my car, but I will keep searching.

 

Joe

 

 

11 hours ago, VW4X4 said:

Joe ,

 Are you aware of the light beam indicator light?   Its a light bulb built into the head light switch.  I'm guessing your is missing since you had a different switch in there originally.  Better to install it now rather than after its all together. IT actually shines down the center of the light switch knob.

    Now, where in the world are you getting all those parts...??

 The only place would be those very expensive vendors."?

 

ERIc

 

[Professor]

18 January Update.

 

First day of the semester today so I did not get much work done on the Chrysler.  The only thing I accomplished was taking apart the overdrive speedometer to clean it.  Even cleaned, the new correct speedometer has nowhere near the beauty of the incorrect speedometer.  Once I verify that the overdrive speedometer works, I will pass on the non-overdrive unit to someone who needs it.

 

 

[Professor]

19 January Update.

 

Another work day so I did not accomplish much, but I made some progress.  I managed to figure out how to wire the headlight switch and hi/low beam selecter by ohming out the wires to the parking headlamps, tail lamps, and headlights.  The schematics for the headlight switch from Rhode Island Wiring labeled the terminals 1,2,3,4,5 and the factory headlight switch was labeled R, R, A, O, H, B.  The hi/low beam selector was not labeled at all, but it was easy to figure out with an ohm meter.  Center terminal is the feed, one leg is high or low beam, and the other leg is low or high beam (it doesn’t matter which one).

 

I also took the headlight sockets (that connect from the wiring harness to the headlight bucket) apart  and cleaned them. I was hoping that Rhode Island Wiring made reproductions, but according to the person I spoke with, no one makes reproductions.  I have not verified this yet.  Regardless, my sockets were fine after taking them apart and I am trying to reuse every serviceable component, so I am fine reusing my existing headlight sockets.

 

One note… I was shocked at how bad the connections were to the headlights.  Take a look for yourself.  I think if I had to do this restoration over again, I would have replaced the wiring harness almost immediately instead of driving it for 18 months.  I knew the wiring was unsafe, but I did not know it was UNSAFE!  It was a fire waiting to happen.

 

Also, I actually managed to see some color in the headlight socket wires so that I could label them.  This should make wiring them up a bit easier.  I have included images which show the clocking of the wires and the color in case someone else runs into the same mess I did.

 

Images attached.

 

Joe

 

 

[VW4X4]

Joe,

    Is this the socket at the headlight body?  (Not the socket at the bulb)???  If so, your a brave man.  I have not seen anyone who has these sockets still in the car working.  Most people have eliminated these.  The other thing, you might want to think about is adding a ground wire, some how.  Wire out a ground wire, you have a lot of body parts that have to make a good connection to ensure the light will work 100%. 

 

ERIC

 

[Professor]

Hi Eric,

 

Yes, this is the socket attached to the main wiring harness  that connects to the headlight housing socket.  I could easily eliminate this, and I will if I need to, but my preference is to make it work just like it did when it rolled out of the factory.  This said, a previous owner already added grounds inside the headlight buckets and I will incorporate those additional grounds into the headlight wiring harness that I will create using original style wire.  If I fail to get a useable amount of light, then I will redesign things.

 

My biggest concern with the headlights right now is that the reflectors need to be recoated and I have failed to find anyone who can do it.  I know they must be out there…

 

Joe

 

10 minutes ago, VW4X4 said:

Joe,

    Is this the socket at the headlight body?  (Not the socket at the bulb)???  If so, your a brave man.  I have not seen anyone who has these sockets still in the car working.  Most people have eliminated these.  The other thing, you might want to think about is adding a ground wire, some how.  Wire out a ground wire, you have a lot of body parts that have to make a good connection to ensure the light will work 100%. 

 

ERIC

 

 

[VW4X4]

1 hour ago, ... and Professor said:

Hi Eric,

 

Yes, this is the socket attached to the main wiring harness  that connects to the headlight housing socket.  I could easily eliminate this, and I will if I need to, but my preference is to make it work just like it did when it rolled out of the factory.  This said, a previous owner already added grounds inside the headlight buckets and I will incorporate those additional grounds into the headlight wiring harness that I will create using original style wire.  If I fail to get a useable amount of light, then I will redesign things.

 

My biggest concern with the headlights right now is that the reflectors need to be recoated and I have failed to find anyone who can do it.  I know they must be out there…

 

Joe

 

 

Joe,

whatt most people are doing with the reflectors is having them chromed plated.

I was told that they were originally silver plated.  Silver plating is almost as unusual as gold plating. Just think of the cost, that's why chrome is preferred.   Let me know what you do with them. I need to do the same.

Erica

[Dave39MD]

Research Uvira Optical reflectors. I have heard many good comments about their process and customer service.

 

Dave

[SuperJonas]

Frank Mance Plating Service in Pittsburgh, PA (412) 281-5748 did my '35 Airstream reflectors in the correct silver; beautiful outcome and easy to work with; I had the advantage of bringing them in as I am local but he does business from all over and can easily receive/ship; great guy and really knowledgeable.  Does brass, gold, silver plating on a variety of household and automotive items.  

 

Greg

 

[Piaras]

Mirror coatings shops are out there. Astronomy people can likely help you out. 

[Professor]

20 January Update

 

Yesterday I was on the phone with Rhode Island Wiring trying to work out some harness details.  Essentially, the schematic they provided had a couple of incorrect names on the wires causing me some confusion.  I spent almost 30 minutes on the phone with Mike Small working out the details.  I am really pleased with Rhode Island Wiring support, it is top notch for sure.  So far, the harness has been perfect with the exception of a small detail in the rear tail lights.  My harness had tail light sockets with dual contacts and I needed single contact sockets.  They sent me the small single contact solder disks very quickly.  I am documenting the schematic changes and sending them my old wiring harnesses in case they might be useful. 

 

If you purchase a harness from Rhode Island Wiring, I think you will find their product and support amazing.

 

On another note, ripping out my old hacked up wiring harness completely and then installing the new harnesses has been a valuable learning tool.  Essentially, I am being forced to understand how my car is wired and I find that I am really enjoying this process.

 

Today I will be working on the under dash wiring and making an attempt to repair the original light switch I have.  I ordered two new headlamp harnesses and will be installing those when they come in.  I attached an image of the headlamp harnesses I ordered.

 

Joe

 

 

[Professor]

21 January:

 

For six hours of work today, I don’t feel like I accomplished much.  I got the wiring harness routed to both headlights and I repaired and wired the driver’s side headlight socket.  One of the most difficult aspects of today’s work was actually figuring out how the factory routed the wiring harness.  I knew how part of the wiring harness was routed by the pictures I took while removing the harness; the difficulty came in the areas where previous owners hacked the harness.  I ended up searching online and doing a bit of detective work in the areas that had hacked harness portions.  For example, I found harness clips in a few areas that clearly identified how the harness was routed.  The rest of the work entailed honing my Google-Fu.

 

I have attached a few pictures.  Tomorrow I will finish the headlight wiring, install the headlights, and test the headlight circuit.  The rest of the day will be spent working inside the cab… I feel a backache coming on.  🙂

 

 

[neil morse]

15 hours ago, ... and Professor said:

If you purchase a harness from Rhode Island Wiring, I think you will find their product and support amazing.

 

On another note, ripping out my old hacked up wiring harness completely and then installing the new harnesses has been a valuable learning tool.  Essentially, I am being forced to understand how my car is wired and I find that I am really enjoying this process.

 

I had a similar experience and agree with both of the things you say.  (1) Rhode Island Wiring is top notch; and (2) installing a new wiring harness teaches you a whole lot about how your car's electrical system works!

[Professor]

22 January Update:

 

I wired the passenger headlight, installed both headlights, wired most of the wires behind the dash, and ran the new negative battery cable to the starter.  I am attaching some images for today’s work.  Quite a difference from the rats-nest I had before.

 

I have a couple of questions related to today’s work.

 

First, the Rhode Island Wiring dash harness indicates that the instrument lights were controlled by some sort of switch that is not the headlight switch (there is no terminal for dash lights.  Does anyone know how the heck the dash lights were turned on from the factory?  The harness I took out had a non-factory switch that included a dash light terminal.

 

Second, if you examine the under dash image below, you will see that the ammeter has a fuse holder going to the positive terminal, but the Rhode Island Wiring harness has no such provision.  In the Rhode Island wiring harness, power comes in on the 12ga red and white wire to the negative terminal (or what I think is the negative terminal, through the ammeter (it appears the positive terminal of the ammeter has two posts) and the fuse goes to the positive post of the ammeter. I wonder if this fuse drove the radio or something else since I have a factory radio.

 

One final note: Their harnesses are works of art, and honestly, make me proud to say “Made in America”.  So many things we buy these days is garbage, both foreign and domestic, that when I find a domestic product that has high quality, I am proud.  As an electrical engineer, I have been around wiring harnesses for 40-ish years and these are some of the finest wiring harnesses I have ever seen, even compared to aircraft harnesses which I assembled as an electronic assembler at Sherry Flight Systems back in the late 70s and early 80s.  I re-wired my Corvair using a harness created by another American company (or sourced through them anyway) and the quality was not even remotely comparable to the Rhode Island Wiring harnesses.

 

Oh… and before I forget, I installed the factory overdrive speedometer today.  It looks better than I thought it would.

 

Joe

 

 

[VW4X4]

Joe,

The instrument lights are controlled by a switch that should be poking out of the bottom edge of the dash. .  If I recall correctly, it also will dim those lights.

 

As for the amp meter fuse, it is in series with the amp meter.

I'll double check my car tomorrow..

Eric

[Professor]

Thanks Eric.  It is sometimes difficult to figure out what is correct on these cars unless you have an original to use as a template, or a bunch of folks (like you and others on this forum) to assist.  In this case, it actually does take a village. 

 

Joe

 

 

[Piaras]

The switch is mounted on the lip of the dash with the lever poking through a hole and 2 6x32 screws holding it in place, above your right knee. Double throw center off. It has a wire wound resistor for the low setting and direct on the high. I can take a photo of mine if you need.

Pierre

Edited January 23, 2022 by Piaras
Changed screw size (see edit history)

[Professor]

Thanks Pierre.  An image would be wonderful.  Do you know the value of the resistor?  I will have to make one so any images and a resistance measurement would be incredibly helpful.

 

40 minutes ago, Piaras said:

The switch is mounted on the lip of the dash with the lever poking through a hole and 2 8x32 screws holding it in place, above your right knee. Double throw center off. It has a wire wound resistor for the low setting and direct on the high. I can take a photo of mine if you need.

Pierre

 

[Piaras]

I just came in from the garage and here are 3 photos. I will go back out and test the resistence for you. Photo showing the holes for the switch as seen from underneath. From inside and the switch itself. I wrapped it in electrical tape to prevent a shorting out when moving it about.

[Professor]

Thanks so much Pierre!  I went out and checked and I can see the place where the switch goes.  I will make a switch with a resistor inline.  This is a huge help.

[Piaras]

The wire wound measures 2.8 ohms. Look at photo 568 there are 3 terminals. from left to right No connect externally. It transfers inside the switch with the lever to the right. The center terminal is the power from Battery. The Right terminal is where the leads from the dash lights are attached. With the lever to the left, power bypass the wire wound and is direct to the dash lights. There are no visible markings anywhere in the switch nor on the ceramic cylinder.

[Piaras]

The last photo of the three is the one I am referring to.