Professor Posted January 23, 2022 Author Share Posted January 23, 2022 Thanks so much Pierre! I looked around and found a reproduction switch, but it does not look like yours. I really appreciate you taking the time to pull out your switch. I hope this will help others who have had their wiring harnesses hacked to pieces. Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piaras Posted January 23, 2022 Share Posted January 23, 2022 The center post has 1 wire from Battery. The 3 wires for the dash lights all go to the one side while the resistor completes the circuit for low power. Pierre Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VW4X4 Posted January 23, 2022 Share Posted January 23, 2022 Joe, Are you following a wiring diagram? If so, can post a copy of it? ERIC On 1/20/2022 at 10:17 AM, Piaras said: Mirror coatings shops are out there. Astronomy people can likely help you out. Joe, Better check what you ordered for the head lights. All my cars had two wires going to the main socket, (high and low beams) then a separate wire to a smaller running light socket. If I were Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Professor Posted January 23, 2022 Author Share Posted January 23, 2022 Hi Eric, I checked my NOS headlight and compared it to the wiring harnesses I purchased for the headlights and they are the same. The headlight socket has two wires going to it and the parking light socket has one wire. I may be misunderstanding what you are saying. Yes, I will take some images of the wiring diagrams and post them. Standby. Joe 1 hour ago, VW4X4 said: Joe, Are you following a wiring diagram? If so, can post a copy of it? ERIC Joe, Better check what you ordered for the head lights. All my cars had two wires going to the main socket, (high and low beams) then a separate wire to a smaller running light socket. If I were Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Professor Posted January 23, 2022 Author Share Posted January 23, 2022 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VW4X4 Posted January 23, 2022 Share Posted January 23, 2022 1 hour ago, VW4X4 said: Joe, Are you following a wiring diagram? If so, can post a copy of it? ERIC Joe, Better check what you ordered for the head lights. All my cars had two wires going to the main socket, (high and low beams) then a separate wire to a smaller running light socket. If I were Sorry Joe, I mistook the picture..... At first glace it looked incorrect. On another note, thanks for posting those wiring diagrams. I've never had a wiring info. for my cars. I re-wired my couple by tracing each and every wire. I have also updated my car to 12 volts, since the original equipment was in such bad condition. Looking back on things, I may have made a bunch of other improvements just for safety, like adding more fused, and a cut off switch. Yep, just talked myself into the cutoff switch. Thank joe..... ERIC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Professor Posted January 24, 2022 Author Share Posted January 24, 2022 January 24 Update: Full day at work today but I still managed to wire up the instrument light harness, install the bulbs, and test the stand-alone harness. Also, I took some more images of the wiring harness diagrams. Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Professor Posted January 25, 2022 Author Share Posted January 25, 2022 Question: I notice from the schematic (and the Rhode Island Wiring Harness) that there is a license plate lamp feed near the left rear tail light. The problem with this is, my license plate is lit through a glass lens on the top of the left tail light housing… there is no separate license plate light. As soon as the tail lights are turned on, the license plate is lit through the clear lens. Can anyone with an Airstream confirm that there is no separate license plate light? Thanks so much in advance. On another note, I notice that the cigarette lighter wire, automatic choke wire, and the distributor (negative) wire are not included in the Rhode Island Wiring harness so I will either need to fabricate the wires from the spare cloth covered wire and fittings I ordered from them, or ask them to fabricate the wires. This isn’t a difficult task, but I will probably suggest to them that they include these wires in their harness sets. Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VW4X4 Posted January 25, 2022 Share Posted January 25, 2022 (edited) 5 hours ago, ... and Professor said: Question: I notice from the schematic (and the Rhode Island Wiring Harness) that there is a license plate lamp feed near the left rear tail light. The problem with this is, my license plate is lit through a glass lens on the top of the left tail light housing… there is no separate license plate light. As soon as the tail lights are turned on, the license plate is lit through the clear lens. Can anyone with an Airstream confirm that there is no separate license plate light? Thanks so much in advance. On another note, I notice that the cigarette lighter wire, automatic choke wire, and the distributor (negative) wire are not included in the Rhode Island Wiring harness so I will either need to fabricate the wires from the spare cloth covered wire and fittings I ordered from them, or ask them to fabricate the wires. This isn’t a difficult task, but I will probably suggest to them that they include these wires in their harness sets. Joe The license plate light on a 4 door car is right in the middle of the trunk lid. I suspect this difference was over looked in your car (being a couple). Your probably going to find more things that, that Rhode island wiring left out and over looked . For what those harnesses cost, they should make those piece for you, for free. They should also thanks you for correcting all the missing parts, and pieces in there diagrams. This was a big reason why I made my own. ERIC Edited January 25, 2022 by VW4X4 (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Zimmermann Posted January 25, 2022 Share Posted January 25, 2022 It is my understanding that the companies who are reproducing wirings are needed first a "good" original harness. If that harness is incomplete or modified, those people are not magicians, they reproduce what they are getting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VW4X4 Posted January 25, 2022 Share Posted January 25, 2022 20 minutes ago, Roger Zimmermann said: It is my understanding that the companies who are reproducing wirings are needed first a "good" original harness. If that harness is incomplete or modified, those people are not magicians, they reproduce what they are getting. This is NOT how they reproduce a factory wiring harness. It is done by wiring diagrams, and harness layout drawings. (prints) If you had a "good" original harness why would you want another one, anyway? It can be done that way, but is a little more difficult. There are connections sometimes barried inside the harness. These all have to be exposed, and documented. This is essentially reverse engineering, that's why most harnesses are made form prints. ERIc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Zimmermann Posted January 25, 2022 Share Posted January 25, 2022 It's not what another wiring supplier told me. Some car's wiring are not reproduced because nobody is willing to send that wiring to the supplier. By "good" wiring: I mean an harness which is complete but maybe was properly repaired if needed, however with hard or even split insulation. For 3 months, I had this experience with a 1957 Brougham front door. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piaras Posted January 25, 2022 Share Posted January 25, 2022 Joe. The taillight has two bulbs, both single element. The middle bulb is brake and the upper is running. The running lamp also illuminate the license plate through that window. Pierre Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Professor Posted January 25, 2022 Author Share Posted January 25, 2022 Thanks Pierre, This is what I see on my car, and the explanation that the license plate light wire is for cars with a center mount license plate makes complete sense. 1 hour ago, Piaras said: Joe. The taillight has two bulbs, both single element. The middle bulb is brake and the upper is running. The running lamp also illuminate the license plate through that window. Pierre 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Professor Posted January 26, 2022 Author Share Posted January 26, 2022 Roger, This is exactly what Rhode Island Wiring told me, and it is why I will be sending them my harness, even though it is in really bad shape. They can examine how sections of the original wiring were assembled and the harness may have some value to them. I was told a number of times that the harness they used to make their reproduction harness for my car was sent to them in the 1980s. Joe 15 hours ago, Roger Zimmermann said: It's not what another wiring supplier told me. Some car's wiring are not reproduced because nobody is willing to send that wiring to the supplier. By "good" wiring: I mean an harness which is complete but maybe was properly repaired if needed, however with hard or even split insulation. For 3 months, I had this experience with a 1957 Brougham front door. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9 Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 On 1/25/2022 at 4:44 AM, ... and Professor said: On another note, I notice that the cigarette lighter wire, automatic choke wire, and the distributor (negative) wire are not included in the Rhode Island Wiring harness so I will either need to fabricate the wires from the spare cloth covered wire and fittings I ordered from them, or ask them to fabricate the wires. This isn’t a difficult task, but I will probably suggest to them that they include these wires in their harness sets. Joe I believe all these wires are available separately from RI at least they were when I did my old Dodge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Professor Posted January 27, 2022 Author Share Posted January 27, 2022 Thanks Steve. I wish they had included them in a "Miscellaneous" wiring kit... I assumed that they would be part of the main harness. I ordered the wire and hardware from RIW to make the wires myself (quicker). Joe 13 minutes ago, Steve9 said: I believe all these wires are available separately from RI at least they were when I did my old Dodge. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VW4X4 Posted January 28, 2022 Share Posted January 28, 2022 Sorry about hijacking this thread, but it seems like its the best chance of getting good info..... Can anyone post pictures, part numbers, or details of what the weather stripping should look like around the Airstream doors. Mine are completely destroyed. From what I can see only the top of the door has anything that really seals. Has anyone made improvements on this. ERIC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piaras Posted January 28, 2022 Share Posted January 28, 2022 Eric Check your PM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Professor Posted January 28, 2022 Author Share Posted January 28, 2022 28 January Update: Running into a bit of difficulty in figuring out how to wire the ammeter; Rhode Island Wiring did not include a fused connection on any of their dash wires to the ammeter so I am working to figure out how to wire the ammeter properly. One would think that the main battery supply would run to the fuse at the ammeter and then out to the rest of the car, but from looking at the wiring harness supplied by Rhode Island Wiring, there is no fused connection to the ammeter. I contacted them and asked for assistance. This said, I made some good progress today. I finished the dash wiring (with the exception of the ammeter) and fabricated the coil and choke wires from the parts supplied by Rhode Island Wiring. I discovered that the dash light wiring switch I ordered fits the cutout under the dash, but is not quite proper. It will work for now, but I will only have one setting: Instrument lights off or on… no dim setting. This is an easy fix and I will take care of it when I have time. With any luck, tomorrow will find me wiring up the headlight buckets (the harnesses came in today), figuring out the ammeter connections, connecting the battery and running systems checks to make sure all of the wiring is correct. At this point, I will be taking it slow since any mistakes could result in a fried wiring harness. Images from today’s work attached… Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VW4X4 Posted January 29, 2022 Share Posted January 29, 2022 (edited) Joe, The power wire to the Amp meter should come from the battery cable on the starter. I believe its labeled "26" in the wiring diagram. It this missing in the wiring harness? Note : the fuse built into the Amp meter.... I did this wiring job back in 1988..... Can hardly remember what I did ... ERIc Edited January 29, 2022 by VW4X4 (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloo Posted January 29, 2022 Share Posted January 29, 2022 Ammeters are rarely fused. I don't know what sort of generator you have on the 36 Airstream, but third brush generators were still pretty common at that time, and those can burn up if run without a load. The basic plan goes like this: A wire begins at the cutout, or the voltage regulator (if it has one and the cutout is inside it). This first wire goes to one side of the ammeter. Almost anything that draws current also connects to this same side, or connects to something that is connected to this same side, like maybe an ignition switch and/or a light switch. If anything is fused here, It would be a fuse feeding a load like lights or a heater etc. The wire from the other ammeter terminal goes to the battery. It may do so by landing on the starter at the battery cable post, or some not quite direct way like that, but the point is to get to the battery. There are no loads on this side usually. Some cars have the horn connected to this side, but that's usually about it. Note there is no ground on the ammeter. The ammeter is just a flow meter that measures flow in or out of the battery. Any loads (ignition, lights, etc.) are drawn from the generator side of the ammeter, and then the ammeter only measures what is leftover and charging the battery. When the generator cannot keep up, current flows backwards through the ammeter as the battery picks up the slack. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Professor Posted January 29, 2022 Author Share Posted January 29, 2022 Hi Eric, Wire number 26 is not missing, but it has a ring terminal on it and not a fuse connection. I have the fuse connection from the original harness that I can install. The problem is, wire number 26 does not go to the set of terminals shown in the schematic. In the schematic, wire number 26 goes to the standalone terminal (which I think is the negative of the ammeter) and the fuse connection on the ammeter (see the image I posted) seems to go to the terminals on the schematic marked for wire number 10 that goes to the generator. This is the issue, I cannot tell from the schematic where the fuse on the ammeter actually is. I think it is wire 10, but I am not certain. Joe 21 minutes ago, VW4X4 said: Joe, The power wire to the Amp meter should come from the battery cable on the starter. I believe its labeled "26" in the wiring diagram. It this missing in the wiring harness? ERIc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piaras Posted January 29, 2022 Share Posted January 29, 2022 Take this as maybe the same across the models. My Plymouth book shows no fuse for the ampere meter. Only shows horn and lights. Note the lights fuse is mounted at the ampere meter where the lights get the power from. Pierre 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VW4X4 Posted January 29, 2022 Share Posted January 29, 2022 (edited) Joe, I just uploaded a picture of the back of my amp meter. I think that ring terminal is correct. It looks like the output of the amp meter is where the fuse is. In the picture one end of the fuse on the amp meter is connected in series to the bottom left terminal, (in the picture I posted). Here's an other picture. After carefully examining what I did years ago, top left terminal is generator and ignition. This leave the bottom right for wire "26" and the cigarette lighter. Edited January 29, 2022 by VW4X4 (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloo Posted January 29, 2022 Share Posted January 29, 2022 (edited) How I interpret this: Power source is the generator cutout at "M" via wire 10 on schematic, This wire is #16, 12 gauge, B-W (image 1, right side, from @... and Professor's January 24 update) The other end pops out at the ammeter as #2, 12 gauge, B-W, ammeter (+) at the ammeter. From that same terminal, ammeter (+), wire 25 (ignition?) is fed unfused. The fuseholder doohickey shown in @VW4X4's pictures is also fed from this terminal. The fused end of the fuseholder feeds wires 27 (stoplight), 28 (light switch), and 43 (dome light). And at this point I realize I was completely misunderstanding what @... and Professor was asking. RI Wire in their paperwork have connected the 27 (light switch) and the 28 (stoplight) unfused to the ammeter(+), and not listed the (43) dome light at all. In the wiring diagram, all 3 are on the fuse, and yes it is on the wire 10 (generator cutout) side of the ammeter. From the ammeter (-) side, wire 26 (#3, 12 gauge, R-W), goes to the starter (it pops out as #15, 12 gauge, R-W), and from there on it's way to the battery via the battery cable as expected. The cigar lighter, wire 34, is also fed from the ammeter (-) terminal. I did not see a reference to it in the RI Wire paperwork. Edited January 29, 2022 by Bloo (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Professor Posted January 29, 2022 Author Share Posted January 29, 2022 Hi Eric, You have a hardtop, correct? I don’t have any images of hardtop door seals, but I suspect something close to original has been reproduced. Did you try Steele Rubber Products: https://www.steelerubber.com/ Joe 14 hours ago, VW4X4 said: Sorry about hijacking this thread, but it seems like its the best chance of getting good info..... Can anyone post pictures, part numbers, or details of what the weather stripping should look like around the Airstream doors. Mine are completely destroyed. From what I can see only the top of the door has anything that really seals. Has anyone made improvements on this. ERIC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Professor Posted January 29, 2022 Author Share Posted January 29, 2022 Good morning All, Armed with the information posted by @VW4X4, @Bloo, and @Piaras (Thanks so VERY much for your help), I have enough information to move forward with verifying the ammeter wiring today. I need to install the headlight bucket wiring harnesses and some new bulbs. I still need to send the reflectors out to have them refinished, but I am going to try and borrow or purchase a second set of reflectors to use while I am having mine finished. With any luck, today will be the day that I apply power to the harness and start testing everything. For the first power up attempt, I am going to use a fuseable link inline with the negative battery terminal just to make certain that if anything is wrong, the link will blow without damaging the harness. I will admit that I am a bit apprehensive about this final stage. Keep your fingers crossed for me! Thanks again everyone. You have made this task so much easier for me. Joe 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Professor Posted January 29, 2022 Author Share Posted January 29, 2022 29 January Update: The two headlight harnesses that I purchased were absolutely and utter garbage. The socket for parking light was missing a cutout compared to the original one so there was no way to actually rotate the bulb to lock it in. Additionally, the main headlight contacts were keyed off 90 degrees so that when you inserted the headlight bulb and rotated it, the contacts rotated OFF the bulb contacts instead of on them. They will be going back to the seller for a refund. So... what did I do? What any self-respecting enthusiast would do; I made the harnesses using the original sockets and the connections and cloth wire from Rhode Island Wiring. I tested the headlights from the dimmer switch forward and everything works perfectly. Whew! Now... for the stuck moment of the day: The generator cutoff switch. My generator cutoff switch wiring was hacked up so much for a voltage regulator that someone added that I have absolutely no idea what terminal of the cutoff relay the 12ga ammeter + wire goes, and I have no idea what goes on the other side of the generator cutoff switch. The schematic shows only wire 10 going to the ammeter +, and nothing going to the other side of the generator cutoff... but when I tore things apart, there were wires going to both sides of the generator cutoff. I don't know if this was part of the voltage regulator hack or I am missing another wire that RIW did not provide. The generator cutoff switch has one terminal labeled GEN and I don't see any label on the other terminal. There is an internal yellow wire going to the GEN side of the cutoff switch (internal to the generator) and there appears to be a reddish (faded so bad I cannot tell) wire coming from internal to the generator to the other unmarked side of the cutoff switch. So... the questions: Which side of the generator cutoff switch does the number 10 wire go? The side marked GEN or the unmarked side. Does anything go on the other terminal of the generator cutoff switch (the unmarked terminal) other than the internal wire? I have attached an image of the generator cutoff switch as it was in its hacked up condition. Thanks so much everyone! Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Professor Posted January 29, 2022 Author Share Posted January 29, 2022 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloo Posted January 29, 2022 Share Posted January 29, 2022 (edited) The normal plan for a third brush generator and a cutout is like this: The armature terminal comes out of the generator and connects to one terminal on the cutout. I am going to go out on a limb and guess that is the GEN terminal on the cutout. The other terminal on the cutout connects to the wire that feeds the car (ammeter). On a third brush generator used with a voltage regulator, or some other method of voltage control, there will also be a field terminal. There is nothing like that in the wiring diagram you posted. The stuff in the picture is in my opinion either modified or different. Where was the regulator? On the firewall? Are you going to keep the regulator? EDIT: My wild speculation based on the picture is this, they removed the terminal from the generator, and ran 2 connections through the hole, Armature and Field. The cutout housing might be empty and just used as binding posts for those 2 wires. Then a regulator would be mounted up on the firewall. Both wires would run to it, and then the wire from the ammeter would connect to a third terminal on the regulator. It's only a guess. Edited January 29, 2022 by Bloo (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Professor Posted January 29, 2022 Author Share Posted January 29, 2022 Hi Bloo, There was a regulator mounted on the firewall as one of the hacks. I did not want to run a regulator since it was not factory, so it looks like I will need to remove the generator cutoff switch and see if it is hollowed out. If it is, then I have my answer and I will need to back out the modification to the generator and get the appropriate cutout switch. I suppose I could reinstall the voltage regulator, but I was hoping to put it back to factory with no modifications (yet anyway). Thanks so much for your help. I will report back tomorrow. Joe 32 minutes ago, Bloo said: The normal plan for a third brush generator and a cutout is like this: The armature terminal comes out of the generator and connects to one terminal on the cutout. I am going to go out on a limb and guess that is the GEN terminal on the cutout. The other terminal on the cutout connects to the wire that feeds the car (ammeter). On a third brush generator used with a voltage regulator, or some other method of voltage control, there will also be a field terminal. There is nothing like that in the wiring diagram you posted. The stuff in the picture is in my opinion either modified or different. Where was the regulator? On the firewall? Are you going to keep the regulator? EDIT: My wild speculation based on the picture is this, they removed the terminal from the generator, and ran 2 connections through the hole, Armature and Field. The cutout housing might be empty and just used as binding posts for those 2 wires. Then a regulator would be mounted up on the firewall. Both wires would run to it, and then the wire from the ammeter would connect to a third terminal on the regulator. It's only a guess. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VW4X4 Posted January 29, 2022 Share Posted January 29, 2022 37 minutes ago, Bloo said: The normal plan for a third brush generator and a cutout is like this: The armature terminal comes out of the generator and connects to one terminal on the cutout. I am going to go out on a limb and guess that is the GEN terminal on the cutout. The other terminal on the cutout connects to the wire that feeds the car (ammeter). On a third brush generator used with a voltage regulator, or some other method of voltage control, there will also be a field terminal. There is nothing like that in the wiring diagram you posted. The stuff in the picture is in my opinion either modified or different. Where was the regulator? On the firewall? Are you going to keep the regulator? EDIT: My wild speculation based on the picture is this, they removed the terminal from the generator, and ran 2 connections through the hole, Armature and Field. The cutout housing might be empty and just used as binding posts for those 2 wires. Then a regulator would be mounted up on the firewall. Both wires would run to it, and then the wire from the ammeter would connect to a third terminal on the regulator. It's only a guess. While....... Lot going on here..... Attached are pics of my original generator... There is a fuse in the side of the regulator. That white strip at the base looks like some type of a resistor. Obviously by the looks of this thing they were way ahead of there time with only one wire going anywhere. How cool is that!! I hope this helps..... ERIC 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloo Posted January 29, 2022 Share Posted January 29, 2022 That's a regulator of some sort. Is this the same as what @... and Professor's car should have? I was thinking a simple cutout, but I am not sure. I don't really think those 2 wires exiting a hole on his could be normal. You have 2 binding posts. Any way to check by number and see if he has the right stuff? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VW4X4 Posted January 29, 2022 Share Posted January 29, 2022 11 minutes ago, Bloo said: That's a regulator of some sort. Is this the same as what @... and Professor's car should have? I was thinking a simple cutout, but I am not sure. I don't really think those 2 wires exiting a hole on his could be normal. You have 2 binding posts. Any way to check by number and see if he has the right stuff? What I know for sure is, this was installed on one of my cars. The other came with no engine. Several other engines I have, were missing the generator when I got them. I might have one or two others generators, but miles away in storage. I will be at my storage units in 2 weeks... ERIc 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ol swede Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 I've been following this restoration with great interest, I have a 36 C8 4door sedan. I was wondering how you came out with the h/l harness as the description stated they were for Ford. I tried some of the 2331 (Wagner I believe) yep clocked wrong. I reworked my original harness and so far no problems. Concerning your generator, I had trouble this fall finally got it checked and mine has thrown solder off the armature. Mine looks just like yours ( well gen & cutout only) I wire only off cutout and back to dash. I will have to look but it seems like the two wires went directly into the cutout. After much indecision I'm going back with a 6v+ alternator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
36 D2 Coupe Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 The generator VW4X4 shows is the same configuration as my '36 Dodge unit. The cutout box on the top of mine is Autolite TC4301. I would have to check to see if I have another - It may be that the cutout for the Chrysler is a different number. But what Eric is showing looks correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ol swede Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 Mine had no external lugs or wiring, or no tag so it may have not been original. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Professor Posted January 30, 2022 Author Share Posted January 30, 2022 Here is the part number on the generator… I am looking it up now. Joe 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Professor Posted January 30, 2022 Author Share Posted January 30, 2022 From what I found, it looks like the correct factory generator for my 1936 Chrysler. Ignoring for a moment whatever may have been modified on the inside so that it worked with a voltage regulator, I definitely do not have the correct cutoff… The images I found online for this part number generator show the same cutoff that Eric has on his generator. Time to start scouring the web… LOL. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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