My '49 Studebaker pickup is leaking oil pretty badly. Please help...

[Lebowski]

I bought this '49 Stude pickup in July and it didn't leak very much at all. In the last month it's been leaking worse and worse. I tried to tighten the bolts in the round piece in front of the oil pan (Sorry-I don't know what you call it) and they wouldn't tighten very tight at all so today I removed two of them and they're different lengths. (See pics) Should they be longer than that? Another half an inch maybe? Could this be the cause of the leaking oil? As you can see from the pic of my garage floor it leaks pretty good when the engine is running.The engine is a Studebaker 289-2v out of a '62 Hawk. ***NOTE: I moved the truck over a little so I wouldn't have to lie in the oil but the leak is directly under the center of the engine.*** Any help would be appreciated. Thanks in advance....

[trini]

Obviously they do not look like the original bolts. Remove a couple from the middle and compare. Is the pan gasket worn out ? Likely so. It might be better to replace all the oil pan bolts with new ones. To know how long the front bolts should be, remove and measure hole with a depth gauge. Wash the engine off all oil and then run. Look for leaks. I strongly suspect the oil pan gasket.. There may be other sources of leaks. 

[SC38dls]

I have s 38 Studebaker ( I know it’s not the same thing) but I’ve put two new pan gaskets on and it still leaks oil. On mine the rear main gasket is wood. I’m sure they changed by 49 but I look at it as if it’s not leaking some (not as much as yours) it’s out of oil!  Try a new oil pan gasket. If you go with new bolts be POSITIVE they are correct size. 

Robert Kaplan — Studebaker@mac.com

is a great source for parts. He’s older and takes his time but he has a lot of parts. He is on the forum and checks the Studebaker forum often. You should post on that forum also.  

Have fun

Dave S 

[Lebowski]

I bought some bolts that were half an inch longer and have put in three of them so far. I ran the engine for 5 minutes and didn't see any oil leaking so that's cool. I'm going to try to replace the rest of them but am not sure if I can reach up that high. What do you call the thing I'm putting the bolts into? Does oil run through it?.

Edited November 27, 2019 by Lebowski (see edit history)

[JimKB1MCV]

Try the Studebaker Drivers Club forum  https://forum.studebakerdriversclub.com/

 

You'll find plenty of Studebaker specific advice there,  probably including someone saying 'they all do that', because most of the Studebaker V-8s do . 😁

 

That said, of course it is repairable,  but when the leaks reach the point it looks like yours has, pinning down the specific location will be a bit time consuming.

It maybe as simple as  a valve cover leak (easy fix) or  since you think it may be coming from the front of the engine, the timing cover gasket or seal may be suspect.

There is an aluminum filler piece that the timing cover and the oil pan bolts to and that looks like where your bolts came from.  Being aluminum, it is subject to stripped threads.

 

There are other suspect areas for oil leaks on that engine.  You really need to reference a  Studebaker service manual if you are not familial with the marque.

 

My 55 President (a 259 cid engine but same basic engine) received a gasket and seal renewal late last summer, no more oil spots on the garage deck.

 

Good luck.

 

 

 

[Lebowski]

1 hour ago, JimKB1MCV said:

Try the Studebaker Drivers Club forum  https://forum.studebakerdriversclub.com/

 

You'll find plenty of Studebaker specific advice there,  probably including someone saying 'they all do that', because most of the Studebaker V-8s do . 😁

 

That said, of course it is repairable,  but when the leaks reach the point it looks like yours has, pinning down the specific location will be a bit time consuming.

It maybe as simple as  a valve cover leak (easy fix) or  since you think it may be coming from the front of the engine, the timing cover gasket or seal may be suspect.

There is an aluminum filler piece that the timing cover and the oil pan bolts to and that looks like where your bolts came from.  Being aluminum, it is subject to stripped threads.

 

There are other suspect areas for oil leaks on that engine.  You really need to reference a  Studebaker service manual if you are not familial with the marque.

 

My 55 President (a 259 cid engine but same basic engine) received a gasket and seal renewal late last summer, no more oil spots on the garage deck.

 

Good luck.

 

 

 

 

I put this on the SDC forum but didn't receive any responses for a couple of hours so that's why I put it on here too. Hopefully the longer bolts that I'm using now will solve the problem. Thanks....

[JamesR]

Glad to gear you are getting the problem fixed. Looks promising. Love that truck.

 

Question: Is using that sealing compound stuff along with new gaskets a good strategy or does it hurt more than it helps? Better off just using new gaskets?

[JimKB1MCV]

Question: Is using that sealing compound stuff along with new gaskets a good strategy or does it hurt more than it helps? Better off just using new gaskets?

 

  Well, I'm not sure there is an easy or quick answer to that.

In a perfect world with straight sealing surfaces and fresh gaskets installed by careful hands its probably not needed.

 In our old car world where we are dealing with machinery thats between thirty-five and 100+ years old, with an unknown and sometimes  'checkered' past sometimes it is needed.

  Also,  sealing compounds come in lots of flavors and selecting the best for the job at hand can be a challenge.  Best thing to remember is that too much can cause some expensive heartburn, i.e. gobs of RTV, Indian Head shellac, Permatex or whatever getting into critical areas (oil or water passages for instance) and biting you in some tender area.

 

 

[trini]

Areas that are prone to leak are oil sending unit , valve cover gaskets, oil pan gaskets, timing cover  seal and, rear oil seal . If you can do an engine  shampoo it would be easy to pinpoint. The better gasket material from my experience is the red non hardening stuff. It must be spread evenly (no blob). Use pieces of sewing thread  and tie in place to keep from moving. To make installation easier use 4 threaded bolts without heads and install (2 on each side of the block, and use as a guide to push up the pan.. Use an awl to center any shifting gasket hole. Tighten evenly.

[Lebowski]

All three bolts that I have removed so far are different lengths. Is that the way they did it at the factory? My guess is no. Also, the longest bolt is what I'm using to replace the others. I'm going to replace as many as I can. I bought a 1/2" ratcheting box wrench yesterday so hopefully that will make the job easier on the higher bolts....

 

 

 

 

 

[Zimm63]

Pay attention to the guy above who suggested using a depth gage to make sure the holes you are putting the bolts into are deep enough.  Short bolt into deep hole works, long bolt into short hole does not.  Worst case, you crank down on it to stop the leak and strip the hole.  PITA repair.  

 

If you don't have a proper gage, you can use a piece of stiff wire and your fingers.  Stick the wire into the hole and allow your fingers to slide up until they touch the oil pan flange.  Hold the wire tightly when you remove it.  Compare the length of the wire between the end and your fingertips with the bolt you plan to put in that hole.  Bolt should be shorter by a quarter inch or so to be sure it won't bottom out.  An inexpensive Vernier caliper usually has the capability to measure depth as well.   I have an analog version that is just the trick for your problem. 

 

I would also suggest that you buy a shop manual for the truck and the car the motor came out of.  You will need both.  The car manual immediately so you can learn about the engine, and the truck manual for all the other stuff you will run into.  

 

Some of us think this kind of stuff is fun.  

 

 

Edited November 28, 2019 by Zimm63 (see edit history)

[Grimy]

1/2 drive will tend to make you put too much torque on those bolts; use 3/8" drive socket/ratchet sets.  Search the forums for posts on NOT overtightening oil pans and other sheet metal components because that distorts the sheet metal.  When the pan gasket leaks and the bolts are not loose, it's time to replace the gasket--and while the pan is down, to hammer out the deformation around the holes caused by the guy who did it last time and overtightened them.

 

Parts manual may tell you the correct bolt diameter, length, and thread pitch for each application.

 

I fully support the ideas above about locating the source of the leak.  If the leak is at the front of the engine, the fan may be hurling the leaked oil all over the place, so consider removing fan belt and running engine for no more than one minute at rpm.  Start with a warm engine, then wipe away leaks, THEN remove fan belt and run for one minute.

[lump]

Years ago I worked at an automatic transmission shop, our customers often came in asking us to find oil leaks. usually the entire underside of a vehicle would be soaked with oil and grease, making it tough to figure out where that oil was coming from. 

 

To quickly find the leak, we would put the vehicle up on a rack, and identify all the locations where leaks were likely to happen (front main seal, rear main seal, shifter shaft, vacuum modulator, speedometer cable/gear, dipstick tube, detent cable connection, etc). Then we would use the old-style BRAKE KLEEN in aerosol cans, and liberally wash down the small area immediately surrounding each of those seals. The old-style BRAKE KLEEN fluid would rinse away grease and oil, and then DRY instantly...leaving a small very-clean-and-very-dry area. Then an assistant would start and run the car on the rack for a minute or two, shifting between gears, while we were underneath shining a bright light alternately from clean-spot to clean-spot. Inevitably one or more of those spots would start to ooze oil right in front of our eyes. Then we knew which seal(s) needed replaced. 

 

In my experience with engine oil leaks, I have often found that the suspect oil pan not guilty of being the true source of the leak. Quite often I have found leaks actually originating at front or rear crankshaft seals, valve covers, etc, which oozed down onto the oil pan gasket area. To find engine oil leaks today, I use the same methods I learned in the auto trans shops. 

 

You have received some really good advice from the guys above, by the way. I have found leaks that were caused by overtightened bolts (which totally crushed gaskets), and bolts that were too long. 

 

Good luck with this! 

Edited November 29, 2019 by lump (see edit history)

[Grimy]

59 minutes ago, mike6024 said:

1/2"ratcheting box wrench he said. Not 1/2" ratchet

You're right, Mike.  I stand corrected--once again!  I'd better re-take that speed reading course...

[Lebowski]

I replaced the 4 bolts on the bottom end and the leak has been reduced by about 95% so I'm happy with that. The other bolts are up too high for me. I removed the oil stains off the garage floor in about 5 minutes by grinding cat litter in them with my shoes. Thanks again to all who offered advice....