Locomobile ID help needed on an early car and license plate

[alsfarms]

This request for help from those of your who have a good working handle on early automobile license plates and know how to search state license information/records.  This story starts with my long term restoration of a 1909 Locomobile.  (That is another long long story!)  A few weeks ago, I noticed a couple of pictures for sale on EBAY with the subject automobile being a 1911 -1912 Locomobile Model L Toy tonneau.  (My 1909 Locomobile is very similar but being a 1909 does not have the front doors).  I decided to purchase those pictures to keep in my :Locomobile photo file.  On the back of one of the pictures is found a couple of comments, probably from a family member who is familiar with the car, the time frame and the lady in the car.  The hand written note suggests that the pictures were taken in 1913 or 1914 with Aunt Nellie sitting in the passenger seat.  The time frame is probably quite accurate as the car, which should have carbide lights, appears to have been converted to have electric headlamps.  These headlights sure look like the early Gray and Davis electrics that came out in that same time frame.   The last bit of good information is the one picture shows very clearly a State License plate  with the number of 4207.  I can't quite make out the state of origin.  So..... let me ask, can any of the Sherlock Holmes types here evaluate the pictures and potentially identify the State this Locomobile was licensed in and then maybe even scout out the records to determine who the car was registered to.  I hope I am not dreaming, but it would be nice to have a bit of correct history to keep with these two pictures.  Help me if you can.

Al

PS: the third photograph is a factory picture of 1909 Locomobile toy tonneau

[John_S_in_Penna]

The middle picture, showing license plate #4207,

clearly has a Pennsylvania plate.  The keystone-shaped

attachment at the left side of the plate makes it 

quite clear.

 

If you've read this forum for a while, you sometimes

see people trying to track cars using old registration

records.  Even if the state records from the 'Teens were

still available, they would not be available to the public.

Edited June 28, 2019 by John_S_in_Penna (see edit history)

[Layden B]

John,

That may be true in Pennsylvania but it is different in other states. Here in California the early registrations are public record.

[lump]

IF early registration records exist, you may be able to hire an attorney or private investigator to seek the information. Don't just give up automatically, when someone tells you that you "can't" have access. 

[TerryB]

The plate is in the rage of 1910 to 1915 from what I see in the picture, based on it being a porcelain license plate with the metal tag that was used on the plate during that time.  My best guess is 1913.  New plates were issued each year so knowing the date on the tag is important in trying to identify who might have owned it.

Edited June 28, 2019 by TerryB (see edit history)

[alsfarms]

The thoughts that have been shared here are greatly appreciated.  I had no thought that the car was in Pa.  However, the scenery does look eastern to me, so Pa. fits!  Terry, if the type of plate shown is from 1910 to 1915, was a design change for or after 1916?  At least if I could, in some form, be able to search the records archives, I know the license plate number to look for in each year.  The note on the back of the one picture does suggest that the pictures were likely from 1913 or 1914.  Your thought further suggests a confirmation to that statement.  So, If I could do a search, I would start with 1913 then go to 1914 looking for license plate number 4207.  I would guess that the type of automobile and owner would be associated with the plate number?  What are the thoughts on that?  I may also attempt to use some high quality computer enhanced magnification to see if a year is shown under the keystone emblem.  John or others who are familiar with Pa., to the left of the plate numbers (4207) in the middle is the Keystone emblem, what should I be looking for under the Keystone, the year?  What should be shown on top of the Keystone, City or county?  Another interesting aspect of this license plate is the fact that Aunt Nellie is likely the wife of the owner.  That could be a form of confirmation if some sleuthing can take place to trace the origin of the plate number.  Does Pa. have a State  historical archive group?  Thanks for the help, this is a fun way to shift gears for a bit away from bruised knuckles and grease under the fingernails.

Al

[TerryB]

I don’t know if you got the same license number each year with your registration renewal.  The year of issue is under the metal badge and Penna for Pennsylvania is above.  In 1916 the plates had changed to metal rather than porcelain over steel.  The metal badge on the left side remained for a few more years.  The little metal keystone plate contained the manufacturer’s auto ID number.  If you bought another car during the year a new license plate was required to get the correct ID number of the new car on the keystone emblem. The porcelain state license plates started in 1906.  The state does have a historical commission, not sure what license plate info they might have.

 

http://www.porcelainplates.net/pennsylvania_archive_2.html

 

More info here.

[John_S_in_Penna]

Thank you for the link above, Terry.

It was interesting and informative to read.

[alsfarms]

Hello terry,  Yes, I second what John said....thanks for posting a link to some interesting historical automobile license plate trivia.  Monday, I will try to visit with the Pa. State Hisotical group.  I am hopeful that they may have the means to look up the Locomobile License plate number.

Al

[mercer09]

most states have tossed this info out many many years ago...........................

 

dmv can only keep so much info and micro fish, very few states have info going back more then 15 years.

 

a needle in a haystack