jrdugas03 Posted April 25, 2019 Share Posted April 25, 2019 So, doing this mechanical restoration for a customer. Had the steering box rebuilt. Wasn't really anything wrong with it. Low mileage car, just a lot of neglect. Marked my Pitman arm and steering box shaft before removal. When i reinstalled, I centered the box, my pitman arm lined right back up. Bolted it on, didn't think twice. Went to move the car some time later (Pushing, doesn't run yet) Car turns left all the way to the stops. Only turns half the distance right. I think this may have been a problem before I got the car. I can see where the right hand brake backing plate actually has a mark on it where the lower king pin knuckle has contacted it, but definately not on the other side. I tried to reposition the pitman arm. With the master splines on it, it seems to only want to be where I put it, or it is even worse... Any help is greatly appreciated! JR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avgwarhawk Posted April 25, 2019 Share Posted April 25, 2019 Geometry of the other suspension parts are as they should be? The mark from the king pin on the backing plate indicates a possible accident tweaking control arms, etc. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrdugas03 Posted April 25, 2019 Author Share Posted April 25, 2019 Has definitely had some sheet metal replaced, and some kind of fender bender. Geometry looks ok, but that's my biggest suspect at this point. Never got to drive it before it came in. Barely ran. The owner backed it off the trailer and drove it in the bay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avgwarhawk Posted April 25, 2019 Share Posted April 25, 2019 I would get the Buick on a rack and start measuring from side to side. Check the frame closely. My experience with different turning ratios from left to right, right to left were caused by accidents that moved/bending of major parts like control arms, tie rods, center links, idler arm. If these really do check out after scrutiny I would look into rotating the steering box shaft a 1/4 turn and re-installing the pitman arm. See what you get when turning. It may be that eventually the correct position of the steering box shaft is obtained and the steering wheel will be way off requiring being pulled and re-centered. Then finally an alignment performed. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Bruce aka First Born Posted April 25, 2019 Share Posted April 25, 2019 Do you have a Buick Shop Manual? Cheapest thing you can own. The one for 1950 which I have is pretty detailed. 1953 was a big change year, engine wise. Manuals are pretty easily found. Ben 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrdugas03 Posted April 25, 2019 Author Share Posted April 25, 2019 Thanks Warhawk. As soon as I get my lift free I'll do what you suggest. When all is said and done I was planning to bring for alignment. Long way to go before that, and don't want to put anything else back together till I know for sure what's up... Ben, yes I have the 53 FSM. Apparently I could use the 52 also... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avgwarhawk Posted April 25, 2019 Share Posted April 25, 2019 1 minute ago, jrdugas03 said: Thanks Warhawk. As soon as I get my lift free I'll do what you suggest. When all is said and done I was planning to bring for alignment. Long way to go before that, and don't want to put anything else back together till I know for sure what's up... Ben, yes I have the 53 FSM. Apparently I could use the 52 also... I would say, at the end of the day the pitman arm is in the wrong position on the steering box shaft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1953mack Posted April 26, 2019 Share Posted April 26, 2019 10 hours ago, jrdugas03 said: . . . Marked my Pitman arm and steering box shaft before removal. When I reinstalled, I centered the box, my pitman arm lined right back up . . . Car turns left all the way to the stops. Only turns half the distance right . . . You said that you "centered the box." The Buick Shop Manual says that it takes 5 1/2 turns of the steering wheel to travel the full range from extreme right to extreme left. How close to 2 3/4 turns each were your numbers . . . from center (when wheels were pointed straight ahead) to extreme right . . . and from center to extreme left? It sounds like you don't have an equal-equal setup. Thanks. Al Malachowski BCA #8965 "500 Miles West of Flint" 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
60FlatTop Posted April 26, 2019 Share Posted April 26, 2019 I'd pop the steering link off the pitman arm ball and see how much swing I got without the box. Then start narrowing it down. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrdugas03 Posted April 26, 2019 Author Share Posted April 26, 2019 Wow! Thanks for all the responses and help. You've given me lots to check. I unfortunately won't be able to get the car back on the lift till early next week. In the mean time...Al, the wheel is out being restored, so I have vice grips on the shaft. I get 3.25 turns lock to lock. Hopefully steering wheel diameter will make up the difference..? And Bernie, I did check the movement with pitman arm disconnected. All good and even left or right.. I am hopefull that I can just go a quarter turn on the box and get it right. Would not be surprised if it was wrong when I got it. Everything else was on this poor car. On a side note, anyone know a Bill and Roni Campbell? Thats who the steering wheel center cap says the car was built for. What an awesome resource this place is! Thanks again! JR. PS. Not the best shots, but pictures are of before and after of engine so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrdugas03 Posted April 30, 2019 Author Share Posted April 30, 2019 Ok, so finally back after it. Had a 56 Olds Holiday come in for some love too. That held me back for a minute. I double triple checked for being able to move the box a quarter turn, and that doesn't work as the pitman shaft has master splines in 4 places. As the steering shaft turns ( I rechecked, I get 4.5 turns lock to lock. The pitman shaft only turns about 3/4 of a turn. So there's no roon to back off a full quarter on it. I did a bunch of measuring and looking for bent parts or frame. Things look ok. I put a Toe bar on it and my Toe is off by more than an inch total so I'm hoping thats it...It was definately like this before I got the car as seen where the right hand lower king pin is hitting the backing plate and the left nothing. The only other possibility I can think of is if the Pitman arm itself is wrong. I've read other years are longer...? Mine has a casting #5665070GMB2. Anyone have an idea if this is right? At this point I think I'm going to keep assembling and fix it when we can get it on an alignment rack....Any and all other input is greatly appreciated!!! JR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avgwarhawk Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 (edited) A inch off indicates two things to me, someone fiddled with the tie rod adjustment sleeve or something bent from accident. The rubbing king pin is still a concern. For me, I would get the Buick on an alignment rack. Take a caster cut. Check to see if the control arms are positive or negative caster to each other. Edited April 30, 2019 by avgwarhawk (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avgwarhawk Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 According to the manual the pitman shaft is longer in the 50-70 series. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrdugas03 Posted April 30, 2019 Author Share Posted April 30, 2019 I totally agree warhawk. Judging by the Toe, I have to believe all the specs are out. As i am still doing a complete wiring harness, gauge restoration, steering wheel, and all dash chrome resto. and none of it is on the car. It will be a while before I can get it to the alignment shop. I was just worried about putting starter and exhaust back on in the event the box had to come back out. Much easier to deal right now. Don't think I have a choice tho. I really need to hear this motor run to make sure it's ok. ( Long story there) Yes I read that about the pitman arm being longer too. That's why I question it. If they put a shorter one on...Also, any idea if the inner drivers side TRE should have a bend in it? Looks right, but ya never know... Thanks!!! JR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avgwarhawk Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 In reading here, there is certain position of the ball nut for installation of the pitman arm shaft. Possibility the steering gear box may need to come apart again to assure the pitman arm shaft alignment is correct. https://www.hometownbuick.com/1953-buick-steering-gear-tie-rods/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KongaMan Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 Check the linkage: 1. Jack up the front end so the wheels are off the ground. 2. Disconnect pitman shaft from gear box. 3. Point wheels straight ahead. 4. Grab a wheel, then push/pull as if turning. Is there equal motion to the left and right? Check the box/linkage interface: 1. With pitman arm disconnected and wheels pointed straight, position the steering shaft in the center of its range of motion (2¼ turns from either extreme). 2. Do the splines in the pitman arm and pitman shaft line up? You might also consider the possibility that it was aligned when the steering box was off center. Could happen if the wheel was cocked or if it was misaligned on the shaft. Is there a locating mark on the hub for installing the wheel? With the box centered, would the wheel be close to straight if aligned with that mark? I'm not familiar with the internals of that box, but is it possible to misalign the gears inside? The rebuild you commissioned may not be the first, and if he was just reassembling it the way he found it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrdugas03 Posted April 30, 2019 Author Share Posted April 30, 2019 Yes, I saw all that in my manual. I actually gave copies of all the rebuilding procedures to my rebuilder. He says he's very careful to mark everything before disassembly as he's seen other boxes be very particular. I asked him about it, and he said this one is pretty easy as it's either right or way off. Since it went back together with my marks lining up the same as when I took it apart, I tend to believe him. The people who "Restored" this car pretty much screwed up every system I have been into so far, so I would not be surprised if they just threw the front end back together, and never aligned anything. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrdugas03 Posted April 30, 2019 Author Share Posted April 30, 2019 Konga man, Yes and yes, but toe definately off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrdugas03 Posted April 30, 2019 Author Share Posted April 30, 2019 Anyone have casting numbers for correct Pitman arm? and answer to my question about inner TRE? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avgwarhawk Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 6 minutes ago, jrdugas03 said: Yes, I saw all that in my manual. I actually gave copies of all the rebuilding procedures to my rebuilder. He says he's very careful to mark everything before disassembly as he's seen other boxes be very particular. I asked him about it, and he said this one is pretty easy as it's either right or way off. Since it went back together with my marks lining up the same as when I took it apart, I tend to believe him. The people who "Restored" this car pretty much screwed up every system I have been into so far, so I would not be surprised if they just threw the front end back together, and never aligned anything. Nothing worse then working behind someone and not really knowing what has occurred prior. The many times I had to find and correct what customers had done to their cars before throwing their hands in the air and bring it to me to get the repair completed correctly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrdugas03 Posted April 30, 2019 Author Share Posted April 30, 2019 I can't blame my customer for anything but trusting the dealer that sold it to him. TOTALLY MISREPRESENTED as a gorgeous restoration. It was nothing but lipsticked and WAY over priced! Absolutely nothing we done correctly. Unfortunately the budget does not allow a nut and bolt resto that it needs. So I am tasked to make everything work at least, and beautify what I can. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avgwarhawk Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 8 minutes ago, jrdugas03 said: I can't blame my customer for anything but trusting the dealer that sold it to him. TOTALLY MISREPRESENTED as a gorgeous restoration. It was nothing but lipsticked and WAY over priced! Absolutely nothing we done correctly. Unfortunately the budget does not allow a nut and bolt resto that it needs. So I am tasked to make everything work at least, and beautify what I can. Understand completely. Keep us posted. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1953mack Posted May 1, 2019 Share Posted May 1, 2019 (edited) On 4/30/2019 at 12:18 PM, jrdugas03 said: Anyone have casting numbers for correct Pitman arm? and answer to my question about inner TRE? Here are a few pics to check out . . . — The two pitman arms that I show have the same casting number 5665070 as yours, EXCEPT you say yours is a GMB2 and mine say GMB1 and GMB3. These are specific to 1953 Buick 50-70 Series only. — Both pitman arms measure 7" from centerline of ball to centerline of where the pitman shaft comes through the 1" splined/tapered hole. Look familiar? Does your pitman ball look original? I've heard where they could be installed opposite of what they should be when they're sent out to replace the ball. — The end of the short intermediate tie rod is threaded and has a 20° bend . . . technically, no such thing as a left-inner tie rod end. I will crawl under my parts car to scope out a few issues that I don't agree with and will give you an update later. Al Malachowski BCA #8965 "500 Miles West of Flint" Edited May 4, 2019 by 1953mack added picture of GM B1 pitman arm (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrdugas03 Posted May 1, 2019 Author Share Posted May 1, 2019 Wow Al! You are a wealth of information! Just went and double checked the number. Definately says B2 on it...Other than that it seems exactly the same. 7 inches, same bend, haven't removed it from the linkage to look at the ball but attaches same as yours...Wonder what the difference between B1,2 and 3 are... Sorry for my incorrect terminology on the "intermediate" TRE. But yes appears mines fine. There are definately twice as many theads showing on the right tie rod adjuster sleave than on the left. So I am hoping that's my issue. Had to move forward, so I installed the starter, and exhaust yesterday. This AM I got fuel up to the carb, hot wired it and test fired it. Needed to know if everything I did to the engine internally was going to work. It did!! Made 45 PSI oil pressure, sounded great, no knocks or ticks, all the oil stayed in..lol. It even seems the carb is going to work well. I still will never recomend the rebuilder I used tho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrdugas03 Posted May 2, 2019 Author Share Posted May 2, 2019 Not to get too off topic, but...Anyone have any idea where I can find a power antenna switch?? I have the mounting bracket that says Antenna on it. I need the switch and bezel that holds it in. These are apparently impossible to find. It is the last piece of the electrical puzzle I need... Thanks again!!! JR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1953mack Posted May 6, 2019 Share Posted May 6, 2019 I spent some time under my parts car to confirm that any misalignment issues can't contribute to your off-center steering problem. I'll leave it at that. — The one and only correct way for the steering gear box to work is if the pitman arm is in the position shown in the first picture (parallel with the steering column) when your tires are pointed straight ahead and when you can turn the steering wheel 5 1/2 turns from extreme right to extreme left . . . all as described in the Buick Shop Manuals. You mention that you can only turn the steering wheel 4 1/2 turns but you don't say how the pitman arm lines up relative to when the tires are pointing straight ahead. — The Shop Manuals also describe the correct position of the ball nut and power rack in relation to the sectors on the pitman shaft. Can your rebuilder confirm that these two items were installed correctly? IMHO, either one or both are incorrectly positioned. (Off-center by one tooth?) I would be interested in knowing what your rebuilder has to say. Thanks. Al Malachowski BCA #8965 "500 Miles West of Flint" 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrdugas03 Posted May 6, 2019 Author Share Posted May 6, 2019 Hi Al, This pic shows the pitman installed. That matches the marks I put on before disassembly. Wheels as straight as they can be , but visably misaligned. Looks like it's pretty parallel to the frame. Certainly couldn't move it to the next set of splines and be closer. When I spoke with the rebuilder. He talked about how some boxes are more difficult to center than others. He says this one is either right or way off...Looks like from the diagram that a tooth off would be way off. Says he marks everything on disassembly, and I can see his marks on the pitman shaft. He is a reputable restorer and also builds drag cars. I do worry that maybe it was wrong when he got it and he just put it back. But considering how short the rotation of the pitman shaft is (3/4 of a turn) and looking at the diagram, centering the teeth on the Pitman shaft looks like the only way one would set it up. One tooth looks like would make it very wrong... I'm getting tempted to trailer this thing to the alignment shop and solve this before the rest of it goes back together...I certainly don't want the column going back on without being sure...I was feeling ok about this, now not so much....I'm also not sure about the rotation difference. I don't have the steering wheel yet so I'm using vice grips on the shaft. That shouldn't matter...should it.? In looking at the Tie rod adj. The right side needs to be shortened, and the left lengthened. That will get me turning sharper to the right, which is what I need... Hard trying to solve ALL the problems when you're working alone. Thanks so much to all for the help! JR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1953mack Posted May 7, 2019 Share Posted May 7, 2019 (edited) JR, Just a few comments on your latest post. Thanks for verifying the position of your pitman arm when your tires were pointed straight ahead. That only tells us that your rebuilder reinstalled the pitman shaft like you marked it and it's the only way that it can be installed. That still leaves us with the question of what is preventing you from turning the steering wheel another 360° for a total of 5 1/2 turns in lieu of 4 1/2. Based on your information of 4 1/2 turns and only being able to turn the wheels half-way to the extreme right, I ran the numbers to see if my reasoning made any sense when I said that either or both the power rack or the ball nut were incorrectly installed by one tooth in relation to the pitman shaft’s sectors. — It doesn’t make any difference what you are using to turn the steering shaft when calculating one full revolution . . . vise grips or the 18”-diameter steering wheel . . . 360° is 360°. — The rotation of the pitman shaft (and the pitman arm) is slightly over 1/4 of a turn (not 3/4 of a turn), It’s closer to 93° to be more exact with the advertised 1953 Buick power steering ratio of 21.3:1 (5 1/2 turns of the steering wheel @ 360° = 1980° divided by 21.3 = 92.95°). — You’re saying that one tooth looks like it would make it very wrong. Calculations say that you only need an additional 17° of pitman shaft/pitman arm swing (92.95° total swing divided by 5 1/2 turns of the steering wheel = 16.9° for every turn of the steering wheel). Since the pitman shaft sector teeth are ± 30° on-center, 17° is close enough to calling it one-half of a tooth distance. — With a 92.95° swing of the pitman shaft and pitman arm, that tells you that the front wheels should rotate 46.5° in each direction from the straight-ahead position. You are saying that you can only turn your front wheels half-way (46.5° divided by 2 = 23.25°) to the extreme right. That difference of 23.25° is close to the 17° you are short with the one-less turn of the steering wheel and without accounting for the Ackermann Principle. You still have concerns about whether the toe-in is affecting the off-center steering problem. You might want to consider loosening the four clamp bolts on the two tie-rod sleeves, turn the sleeves to get close to the front-track dimension of 60” and check out what that accomplishes; beats an extra trip to the alignment shop. I also question whether your rebuilder bench-tested his work after he buttoned everything up and sent it off to you. I would think that he should remember doing a bench test and counting 2 3/4 turns each way from center. Just my opinion. Hopefully, you and him can determine what’s causing the problem soon. Thanks. Al Malachowski BCA #8965 “500 Miles West of Flint” Edited May 11, 2019 by 1953mack (see edit history) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrdugas03 Posted May 8, 2019 Author Share Posted May 8, 2019 Hi al, Pardon my French, but Oh S$#T! Sounds like you've nailed it...The fact that I have to remove the box again is one thing. Where I go with it is another...I have lost all faith in this rebuilder. He recently built a Cadilac engine for another Client/friend of mine. It is back there now with MAJOR issues....So I will not be bringing it back to him as he also is the type who takes great offense when faced with complaints. I have used Lares before with no issues, but another restorer I know who does much higher level work than I does not recommend them anymore. Shipping these things is a bear too...Plus I'm probably eating this one as my customer has already paid for a rebuild once... I'll let you know a plan as soon as I have one....Thanks oh so much for your time Al. I am so glad I came here for help! JR. PS. So if I'm understanding this correctly. If we center the teeth correctly, THEN when my wheel is centered, My wheels will likely be way off. Thats why I see the difference in my TR adjustment now....This thing was screwed up by the previous "Restorers" UGH..... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
60FlatTop Posted May 8, 2019 Share Posted May 8, 2019 56 minutes ago, jrdugas03 said: He recently built a Cadilac engine for another Client/friend of mine. It is back there now with MAJOR issues.. Is it one of those Cadillacs with an intermediate gear between the cam and the distributor? Those are a treasure. Al did a great job analyzing the problem. I have seen a lot of guys whom wouldn't tolerate an explanation like that. (Had some for a boss). Good that it will be fixed. Incidents like that might make one distrustful, but they sure increase ones confidence in their own work. Bernie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old-tank Posted May 8, 2019 Share Posted May 8, 2019 25 minutes ago, 60FlatTop said: Incidents like that might make one distrustful, but they sure increase ones confidence in their own work. Using the service manual, it is not that hard to take apart and assemble correctly. BUT! If you find one thing like this wrong, how many other things are deficient? I would disassemble completely and replace all seals and check all tolerances. There is a PAGE on my website for the 54, 55 box...parts for yours may be the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KongaMan Posted May 8, 2019 Share Posted May 8, 2019 (edited) 3 hours ago, jrdugas03 said: The fact that I have to remove the box again is one thing. Where I go with it is another... DIY. It ain't rocket science. If the rebuilder did make a hash of it, contact him (irrespective of how he reacts). If he doesn't make it right (redo or refund), let folks know who he is. It does no one but him any favors to cover for him. Edited May 8, 2019 by KongaMan (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avgwarhawk Posted May 8, 2019 Share Posted May 8, 2019 5 minutes ago, KongaMan said: DIY. It ain't rocket science. The manual walks you through it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrdugas03 Posted May 8, 2019 Author Share Posted May 8, 2019 That's kind of the direction I was leaning....while I kick myself for not doing it in the first place. I probably need someone else to at least help me get it in and out again. I'm too old to horse that thing twice! I hear you Konga man. But he has to fix that caddy before I can risk pissing him off more..."people are funny" we say around here. Flat top, it's an .080 over 500 with a dual quad tunnel ram thru the hood. Lol, I know not everyone's taste, but it's pretty cool! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
60FlatTop Posted May 8, 2019 Share Posted May 8, 2019 5 hours ago, jrdugas03 said: Flat top, it's an .080 over 500 with a dual quad tunnel ram thru the hood. Lol, I know not everyone's taste, but it's pretty cool! Ahh, bet someone broke the distributor housing when they took that one apart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrdugas03 Posted May 9, 2019 Author Share Posted May 9, 2019 1 hour ago, 60FlatTop said: Ahh, bet someone broke the distributor housing when they took that one apart. No clue. He bought it as a pro built motor. Made it 5k. This guy rebuilt. Made it 1k. I'm just the installer. And the owners friend so this kind of sucks... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KongaMan Posted May 9, 2019 Share Posted May 9, 2019 (edited) 22 hours ago, jrdugas03 said: I hear you Konga man. But he has to fix that caddy before I can risk pissing him off more... That's giving him control over your project; you're allowing him to intimidate you into delay. Guys like this use aggression to avoid responsibility. Check the box in the car. If it doesn't have the full range of motion, pull the box (you'll have to do that anyway), take it in and show him. Your better course of action is to ask for an immediate refund; if you ask for a do-over, that gives him further control over the pace of your work and the risk of repeated ineptitude or even sabotage. If he declines to give you a refund, document the rebuild's shortcomings (video, witnesses), file a small claims case, and keep moving on. If I may speak bluntly, this isn't just about the steering box or the fellow that rebuilt it. It's about your reputation as well. The guy who owns the Skylark hired you, and he did so with the expectation of efficiency and competence. If you're offering excuses instead of fixes, and if you allow this to keep dragging out -- and stalling your progress as a result -- the owner isn't going to blame the subcontracted rebuilder; he's going to be looking at -- and talking about -- you. Edited May 9, 2019 by KongaMan (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrdugas03 Posted May 9, 2019 Author Share Posted May 9, 2019 1 hour ago, KongaMan said: That's giving him control over your project; you're allowing him to intimidate you into delay. Guys like this use aggression to avoid responsibility. Check the box in the car. If it doesn't have the full range of motion, pull the box (you'll have to do that anyway), take it in and show him. Your better course of action is to ask for an immediate refund; if you ask for a do-over, that gives him further control over the pace of your work and the risk of repeated ineptitude or even sabotage. If he declines to give you a refund, document the rebuild's shortcomings (video, witnesses), file a small claims case, and keep moving on. If I may speak bluntly, this isn't just about the steering box or the fellow that rebuilt it. It's about your reputation as well. The guy who owns the Skylark hired you, and he did so with the expectation of efficiency and competence. If you're offering excuses instead of fixes, and if you allow this to keep dragging out -- and stalling your progress as a result -- the owner isn't going to blame the subcontracted rebuilder; he's going to be looking at -- and talking about -- you. I respectfully disagree. By fixing it myself, I retain control over my project. Handing him back the box leaves me waiting and hoping he doesn't do any of the bad things you mentioned. I'll make it right, probably not charge for most of my time and be totally up front with my customer. THAT preserves my rep with him. He is hardly the first vender I've been disappointed in. Small claims or any other legal action is far too costly on all levels. Also really hinders forward progress. The matter with the caddy is a $10k engine job NOT counting labor. This box was $300. As was said here. It's not rocket science in this box. I'm sure I can get in and reset the gears. The biggest thing he is guilty of here is not bench testing it. I am convinced this box was off when he got it, and he put it back that way. Not an excuse, but not near as critical as making sure he makes good on this engine build, AND he's the one that can take it in and out so I don't have too! NOT an easy task. I really appreciate your input on this, but I have to think of the big picture. I'm stepping away for a couple days while I get this 56 Olds running and driving safely for a Marine vet. That may only have this summer left to drive his beloved classic. As soon as I'm back after the box I'll let you all know. THANKS AGAIN!!! JR. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1953mack Posted May 10, 2019 Share Posted May 10, 2019 On 5/8/2019 at 8:02 AM, jrdugas03 said: . . . So if I'm understanding this correctly. If we center the teeth correctly, THEN when my wheel is centered, My wheels will likely be way off. Thats why I see the difference in my TR adjustment now . . . Here’s how I would summarize my understanding . . . When the teeth of the pitman shaft sectors, steering gear worm’s ball nut and power rack are in correct alignment at the central high point of the pitman shaft, the steering shaft will be centered and in correct alignment to install the steering wheel correctly that will enable you to rotate the steering wheel 2 3/4 turns in either direction. The pitman shaft will also be in the correct position to install the pitman arm correctly (parallel to the steering column) that will result in the front wheels pointing straight-ahead for necessary front-wheel caster, camber, and toe-in alignment. Your toe-in alignment being off by ± 1” or unequal threads showing at the tie-rod sleeves should not hinder the full 5 1/2 turns of the steering wheel. In the 1953 Buick Shop Manual, page 162, paragraph 16 addresses the correct way to center the pitman shaft on the steering gear worm’s ball nut before you install the power rack correctly as addressed on page 163, paragraph 23. Another item that might be worth mentioning: before you start disassembling the gear box, check to see if you have the noticeable lash that should be on a correctly-installed gear box. In addition to the 2 3/4 turns of the steering wheel in either direction, you should be able to turn it another 1/8 turn (45°) when the front wheels are at extreme right or left. Make note of the feel and how the steering wheel kind of springs-back the 1/8-turn. You might only have lash on one end now, due to your off-centered setup. The Shop Manual does a good job on explaining how to achieve the proper lash. Good luck. Al Malachowski BCA #8965 “500 Miles West of Flint” FYI. The steering assembly tips the scale at ± 70 pounds. Uff Da! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrdugas03 Posted May 10, 2019 Author Share Posted May 10, 2019 You definately nailed it Al. I am so grateful for your help! I know now what needs to be done and the guess work is behind me thanks to your help. It may cost some time and backwards progress, but it's still progress and the end product will be right for my customer. Always my goal! It will be next week sometime before I get back to it, but I will keep you posted as to what I find. JR. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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