'65 Rear Quarter Glass adjustment procedure

[65VerdeGS]

I'm starting a new thread on this topic in hopes I may get suggestions from those of you who have tackled the tricky task of adjusting the rear quarter windows on our First Gen Rivs.  As reported in another thread, I recently swapped out the clear glass in my '65 with Soft-Ray tinted glass.  I had a glass shop do the work.  All good, but the rear quarter glass is not adjusted properly and the glass shop guys say they did the best they can.  Truth is they just don't have the experience or time to bother doing it right, as mine is probably the last and only early Riviera they'll do a glass swap on.  So, now it's my job to get this right before putting the rear seat and trim back in.  In a related thread I asked for suggestions and got some good ideas.  But now I wonder what the proper sequence is to properly adjust the quarter windows.

 

1 hour ago, KongaMan said:

If they're tight, creaky, and/or binding, odds are that they weren't cleaned or lubed.  You know what you have to do.

 

It ain't that bad: once you're in for the adjustment, removing and reinstalling isn't that much more work.

 

I spend another 2 hours last night in the cold garage trying to adjust the quarter windows.  I'm -starting- to understand how everything works to achieve the proper adjustment.  I have the '65 Body Manual instructions, which provide adjustment instructions.  But, it's not clear in what order the adjustments are to be done. 

 

In the manual the adjustments are numbered from 1 to 8.  But it doesn't say you must do them in that particular sequence.  It seems that adjusting one thing may affect other alignments in an iterative process.  For example, first adjust the window in/out position at the belt-line, then the fore and aft (front to back) position, then the top of glass in/out position, etc.  But, none of this is made clear in the manual. 

 

Another annoyance is the fact that I have power windows, so running the window up and down using a jumper wire on the switch contact is clumsy.  It's hard to raise/lower the window in small increments to check the adjustments.

 

The monkey who took everything apart to replace the glass didn't mark the factory positions of anything.  A quick blast with a spray can would have done that nicely.  I can sort of see the original position where things were bolted via close examination. Another thing is the adjusting studs.  It's said that small adjustments are the way to go.  But when I try to adjust the top of the quarter glass relative to the drip rail it seems to need a huge adjustment as the glass is about 1/2 inch too far inboard. That seems a lot to me.  Being my first time tackling this I don't know if it means something else is interfering with being able to move the top of the window out.  I turned the top adjusting studs 3 whole turns and it still doesn't bring the glass to the proper position, or seem to alter its position much.  If the studs were messed with in terms of their in/out position maybe there's some other stud that needs adjusting before I can get the proper alignment with the other studs?  Fortunately all the studs/bolts turn easily so nothing is seized.

 

This same window that's too far inboard at the top is also too far forward relative to the door glass, making the gap to the door glass very tight.  

 

So, in what order should the adjustments be made?  Do I loosen all the bolts and start over?  Would starting over mean doing the adjustments in a specific sequence, such as the following?:

 

1. Adjust fore-aft positioning (back/forth)
2. Adjust position at belt line (in/out)
3. Adjust position of top of window at drip rail (in/out)
4. Adjust window stops
5. etc.
    

Thanks for sharing your know how and tips on this frustrating task! 

 

[pyntre]

Too bad you’re half a continent away or I would give you a hand getting it figured out .. I am in the same stage of my resto so I feel the same way about these quarter windows !!! Imagine the guys on the assembly line ,,, how few minutes they had on each car to get it right and on down the line ... no pressure 🤯🤯  

 

[65VerdeGS]

Well, I found the answer to my quarter window adjustment challenge:

 

I called the shop that swapped in the tinted glass and explained that I wasn't happy with the adjustment of the quarter glass and other issues, including one vent window wouldn't close, the other was binding, etc.

 

The shop graciously stood behind their work.  The owner directed me to another glass shop in his small chain where he has a technician who has been working on auto glass for 40 years.  This guy knew his stuff!  He agreed with all my concerns and offered to re-adjust all the windows.  I booked the car in for half a day.  He took the outer door skins off again, adjusted the door glass, then the rear quarter glass both sides.  He adjusted the sticking vent window, and I had him replace both power vent motor gears as I had ordered a set, just in case!.

 

So, I'm now a much happier man as all my windows are adjusted correctly.  Also, there are fewer rattles and less wind noise at speed.

 

Thought you'd like to know how this all turned out...

[KongaMan]

And therein is the key: do the door glass first, then adjust the rear window to match.  Once the front is set and the rear is closed to match, tightening the adjusters is fairly straightforward.  

[Seafoam65]

If they did all that in four hours, that is impressive!

[pyntre]

Congratulations!!! 

Persistence pays off !👍👍

 

[65VerdeGS]

8 hours ago, Seafoam65 said:

If they did all that in four hours, that is impressive!

 

The adjusting part took about half a day.  But that was after the shop earlier had the car for 3 days!  The techs that swapped the glass were out of their depth to know how to adjust the glass after it was swapped in.  It still isn't perfect - the rear quarter windows bind slightly but these never were super smooth from when I got the car in 1983.  In all the job now looks great and I'm happy with it.  The bonus was that with the door skins off for the half day adjustment I was able to have the vent motor gears replaced.  The driver's vent gear had a portion broken off, which explains why this vent would not close all the way.  I'll post a photo of my old gears so you can see what happens to them after 50+ years of use.

[RivNut]

It doesn't take 50 years for those gears to break.  When I bought my 63 back in 82, both vent windows needed that  little push to engage the gear when opening, or to fully close them. I was told a long time ago that the motor is strong enough to snap the diecast gear if you continue to keep pressure on the switch after the widow is fully open or closed.

[1965rivgs]

3 hours ago, RivNut said:

It doesn't take 50 years for those gears to break.  When I bought my 63 back in 82, both vent windows needed that  little push to engage the gear when opening, or to fully close them. I was told a long time ago that the motor is strong enough to snap the diecast gear if you continue to keep pressure on the switch after the widow is fully open or closed.

  Generally the vent window motor will sheer the teeth off the gear because the gears are soft. If the teeth are sheared off it is always in the "almost closed" position. It is common for the vent window glass to stop just short of fully closed due to interference with the surrounding rubber. Most folks stand on the button when the window is in this stalled position in an effort to fully close the vent window and the gear is the weak/soft component in the system. That is surely the case with your vent windows ED. When you slightly push open the vent window the motor starts to grab teeth which are not sheered off.

Tom

[1965rivgs]

4 hours ago, 65VerdeGS said:

 

The adjusting part took about half a day.  But that was after the shop earlier had the car for 3 days!  The techs that swapped the glass were out of their depth to know how to adjust the glass after it was swapped in.  It still isn't perfect - the rear quarter windows bind slightly but these never were super smooth from when I got the car in 1983.  In all the job now looks great and I'm happy with it.  The bonus was that with the door skins off for the half day adjustment I was able to have the vent motor gears replaced.  The driver's vent gear had a portion broken off, which explains why this vent would not close all the way.  I'll post a photo of my old gears so you can see what happens to them after 50+ years of use.

If there was no "slop" in your vent window before the glass swap I would guess someone used the vent glass itself to "force" an adjustment or repositioning. This puts pressure on the gear from within and will fracture the gear....ask me how I know!

Tom

[RivNut]

19 minutes ago, 1965rivgs said:

  Generally the vent window motor will sheer the teeth off the gear because the gears are soft. If the teeth are sheared off it is always in the "almost closed" position. It is common for the vent window glass to stop just short of fully closed due to interference with the surrounding rubber. Most folks stand on the button when the window is in this stalled position in an effort to fully close the vent window and the gear is the weak/soft component in the system. That is surely the case with your vent windows ED. When you slightly push open the vent window the motor starts to grab teeth which are not sheered off.

Tom

You are correct.  I always had to "snap" the vents into a fully  closed position.  But, and this comes from experience, when you lock your keys in your car, you can always un-snap the vent window and use a stick to operate your power windows to enable you to unlock the door.  

[65VerdeGS]

On 12/20/2018 at 7:12 PM, 1965rivgs said:

If there was no "slop" in your vent window before the glass swap I would guess someone used the vent glass itself to "force" an adjustment or repositioning. This puts pressure on the gear from within and will fracture the gear....ask me how I know!

Tom

Hi Tom,

 

Here's what my old driver's vent motor gear looked like:

 

As you can see, the teeth were distorted near the end of the gear travel.  Also, it looks like one of the teeth fractured off, explaining why the vent wouldn't close all the way.  The other point of failure is that on both gears, one side of the two eared bracket that slides over the vent post was broken off.  Not sure why that would happen, but both vent gears were only held on by one half of the bracket. When the glass shop replaced the vent glass they broke the old glass out of the vent frames.  I know this because I found broken pieces of glass under the seats!  Perhaps the impact of banging out the glass contributed to busting the vent gear post brackets?

 

The replacement gears I bought were cast from a dull-brownish yellow metal, perhaps brass?  Is brass superior to the cast pot metal OEM gears that were used originally?

 

The driver's vent now closes without any interference with the rubber.  The passenger side binds slightly.  Should I try to trim the rubber to eliminate this interference?  Would I use a razor blade to cut away the interfering rubber?  Or, is there a better way to do this?  

 

Last question - When both vents are partly open there remains about an inch of 'play' in the vent.  This means I can manually move the vent glass about half an inch either way.  This doesn't affect the operation of the vents as they don't flop around, rattle, or move by force of the wind when driving.  I'm curious to know if this 'play' is built in to the system, or if it indicates wear of the vent motor worm gear?   As mentioned, the vents work properly.  They  open and close all the way, so I'm hoping I can just leave well enough alone, despite this 'play' in the vents.  Your thoughts? 

[telriv]

1" of movement is NOT normal. Yes, there is a small amount, but not 1".  Something had to be disturbed or loosened during the glass replacement procedure.  Probably when they shocked the glass to break it.

Use silicone spray for the binding for the time being. It will help the glass from binding & after a while when the rubber sets will be OK.

[1965rivgs]

Hi Alex,

  Yes, that is what I typically see when addressing the power vents. Sometimes the split "ear" on the vent window gear breaks just from straight forward r and r...or from twisting/forcing the vent window assembly relative to the gear. The shearing of the gears at the end of travel is also very typical.

  I have never needed to break any glass when changing out the vent window? As I recall I just used considerable down force against the lower rubber, compressing it until the top pivot pin is free from the frame. Probably getting harder and harder to do as our cars get older and the rubber parts get hard as a rock.

  I have NEVER seen the worm gear on a power vent window motor show perceptible wear. There needs to be some clearance between the two gears so maybe that is what you are feeling? Sounds like it is acceptable so not an issue.

Tom

[65VerdeGS]

On 12/28/2018 at 3:52 PM, 1965rivgs said:

Hi Alex,

  Yes, that is what I typically see when addressing the power vents. Sometimes the split "ear" on the vent window gear breaks just from straight forward r and r...or from twisting/forcing the vent window assembly relative to the gear. The shearing of the gears at the end of travel is also very typical.

  I have never needed to break any glass when changing out the vent window? As I recall I just used considerable down force against the lower rubber, compressing it until the top pivot pin is free from the frame. Probably getting harder and harder to do as our cars get older and the rubber parts get hard as a rock.

  I have NEVER seen the worm gear on a power vent window motor show perceptible wear. There needs to be some clearance between the two gears so maybe that is what you are feeling? Sounds like it is acceptable so not an issue.

Tom

 

Yes, the vents work fine, so I'm not going to worry about a bit of play in the gears.  Thanks for your input.

Cheers,