Early Buick Engine painting

[tblack]

Early buick engine painting.

 

As my 1917 d45 engine is apart but will going back together  soon  it seems like the time to get some input on engine painting

 

First were these engines and or components painted at all in the day?

 

Upper cylinder block... color?

Engine pan ?

rocker arm stands?

Rocker arms?

lifter housing and lifter support brackets?

Starter Generator?

Pump?

Push rods?

Fan?

 

On my 4 cylinders 16 and 17 I painted the block and head Model A green.....

[Morgan Wright]

No part of my 1918 engine has any signs that it has ever been painted. Of course, there is the chance that it was painted originally and all the original paint has flaked off, but I doubt it. Maybe the original paint was linseed oil based, and the linseed decomposed and dry rotted into powder.....I know the wheel spokes were originally painted, and there is no trace of paint on them now either. It's a tough call. The steering gear is painted because I used the steering gear from the spare car which was restored and painted 80 years ago and all the paint remains. The original steering gear box was not painted. So I'm thinking, if that paint remains after 80 years and my other car has no paint after 100 years, my guess is that they were unpainted when new.

 

My aluminum timing gear case is aluminum. No paint. The upper crank case is also aluminum. The lower crank case (oil pan) is steel and I need to check to see if it has paint, I think it's just covered with tar and the tar has kept it from rusting. No trace of paint on the jugs, and none of the nuts and bolts anywhere on the engine have any paint on them, you can always tell when they do. The radiator hss porcelain, I think David Buick is the guy who invented how to coat bathtubs with porcelain, so it figures, the upper part is painted the same color as the car body. The transmission and rear end are rusty, no paint. I'll take a good look tomorrow and see if I can find any paint anywhere. The body of the car has blue paint on it, mostly flaked off.

 

 

Edited October 31, 2018 by Morgan Wright (see edit history)

[Morgan Wright]

Best way to prevent iron from rusting is black oxide. Better than paint because it never flakes off and lasts for centuries.

 

https://www.epi.com/black-oxide/?gclid=CjwKCAjw39reBRBJEiwAO1m0OZz1RkU5Rhfrd69SKslwLEbviSCM2Yt6S8GUnXgLDxk7syqmSGS1UBoCdjoQAvD_BwE

[tblack]

morgan...I looked over the black oxide...way to complicated for my purposes...I have cold blued and browned  gun parts in the past and this is a similar process.

 

 

[Spinneyhill]

Were the fastenings (nuts, bolts, screws) plated? It will probably have gone by now - it was and is a sacrificial coating.

[Morgan Wright]

You can't paint the push rods because there is an adjustment nut on them, if it gets painted you can't adjust the valves.

 

You can't paint the steering column for the same reason, you need to be able to adjust the giant nut whenever the steering play gets loose, paint will ruin it.

 

You can't paint the rocker arms because you'll get paint in the oiling hole felts, one for the push rod top and the one for the rocker shaft.

 

My engine is coated with tar which prevents rust better than any paint ever will, keep all paint away from me!

[DonMicheletti]

All my '18 engines, the bolts were just raw steel. When redooing the engine, I cleaned the bolts and painted them with a clear matte finish - they do not shine.

Everything Morgan mentions was painted, just not the critiacal locations. No paint on threads or on the oil holes.

[Morgan Wright]

41 minutes ago, DonMicheletti said:

All my '18 engines, the bolts were just raw steel. When redooing the engine, I cleaned the bolts and painted them with a clear matte finish - they do not shine.

Everything Morgan mentions was painted, just not the critiacal locations. No paint on threads or on the oil holes.

 

Not on my car.

[tblack]

Don is your upper cylinder block painted?  I was looking on the internet saw a very original E49 only thing painted was the pump (black) Spark wire conduit(Black)  fan (greenish) and vacuum tank body black...like this one my steering mast is nickel.

[DonMicheletti]

Since I did the engine in about 1969, it is hard to remember the paint on the engine then. I only copied what I saw then and It is painted now.

 

My car had seen lots of use before I owned it and the engine had obviously been worked on before I got the car, so I cannot vouch for the originality of what was there.

 

However, I have never seen an original unpainted engine on any car. There always was some paint as protection. 

I admit that this is my personal observation, but I have worked on many, many old, original cars.

Except for the '18, all my Buicks were originals and untouched when  I got them and all the engines were painted from the 1910, '31, '32, to the'38's.

 

Back when I did this engine, originality wasnt a big deal, it was only 49 years old when I got it.  Now I wonder about the correct color of the S/G and such.

this is how it looks now - right or wrong.

[Morgan Wright]

My car has remnants of paint on the vacuum tank, the horn, and the metal tube the spark plug wires go through. Definitely none at all on the rockers or push rods, I looked real hard today.

[Morgan Wright]

Oh yeah the water pump is painted.

[DonMicheletti]

As mentioned, while mine was painted, it might not have been right.

 

Could your engine actually be painted black and just looking like no paint?

[Morgan Wright]

39 minutes ago, DonMicheletti said:

Could your engine actually be painted black and just looking like no paint?

 

I did the kerosene test. Stick your finger in kerosene and wipe it on the black stuff. If it comes off it's tar, if not, it's paint.

 

 

[tblack]

I like the green...I think it was the color  in the mid 20's.  Interesting if Terry would weigh in I see his engine is coming apart for a rebuild but I cant see it clear enough to see if it is painted. I'm tempted to not paint but when it is apart and clean it is the best time to paint  Could be just personal preference in the end.  Here are a couple other views of  originals from the internet

[Brian_Heil]

I will post two pics I still have of a very original Buick I looked at, at an estate sale some years ago.  What struck me then and the reason for the pics was it being a one owner family car and unmolested.  Very original.  I think is was a1917 but you experts will know.

 

I see paint on the water pump.

[Brian_Heil]

Here is the second pic I still have.  The car was at an auction in Dundee Michigan about 6 years ago.

[Brian_Heil]

Found a third of same car.  Last one.

[Brian_Heil]

Found this 1923 on the internet some years ago and saved it because I thought it looked well done.  Don't think anyone would complain.

 

 

 

 

 

[Terry Wiegand]

Brian,

The car in your earlier photos is a 1916.  The grease cups on the rocker posts confirm that.  And the photo of the running board with the 'flat' fender tells that it was an early production 1916 model.  The car looked like it was in fairly decent shape from what the photos reveal.

 

Terry Wiegand

South Hutchinson, Kansas  aka  Doo Dah

[Morgan Wright]

Here is a pic of my engine when I bought it, when it was still in Illinois, before I touched anything. It sat for 80 years and nobody touched it. I see flakes of white paint all around the engine compartment. I'm guessing from the pic that it all came from the upper coolant return pipe, I think I even see some white paint still on it. I'll check it tomorrow to see if I can find any pieces of white paint still left on that pipe.

 

When people say original, THIS is original. Radiator hoses 80 years old, hose clamps are old style and I'm reusing all of them, they still work! Leather fan belt, broken but still on the pulley.

[DonMicheletti]

This discussion had piqued my interest.

My spare engine is original and has been apart for many years. It was parked in 1932 under a tree.  It has been apart since I got it, most of the parts are untouched.

 

I checked some of the grimy ro0cker arms. When i removed all the crud, there were no traces of paint.

 

Under the tree, it didnt look as good as Morgans. It had been pickled in oil and dirt.  However, after cutting the water pump shaft, it would still turn. The disassembled pump showed an impeller rusted in half.

[Morgan Wright]

I checked that coolant pipe I mentioned.....no white paint, and it showed remnants of how it was originally brass plated just like the steering column, but the brass plating on both mostly came off when the iron underneath rusted. So I don't know where the white paint flakes came from. My steering column was originally brass plated, Tom's was nickel.

[tblack]

Nice pictures....that light green on the 23 was I think an original type color for the early 20's......I guess I will not paint, just clean and oil. I did paint the water pump and the fan is already  black.  My engine was sprayed  a light gray and I have since scraped it all off.  The lifter guides and holders were Black under the gray spray....The black paint was adhering well.  My guess the gray paint came in the early 50's and the black paint earlier or original...I'm leaving these parts bare metal as oil will protect them.

 

I buttoned up the lower end today, waiting for the cylinder block and then see how the modified cages work out.  Perhaps someday I'll aquire the proper cages, valves and springs but the mix and match should work for now

[tblack]

Found another picture of my now gone 1916 D35   I was the second owner and it last ran in 1938...no paint but I did paint it after the rebuild

[Mark Shaw]

This is the engine of an un-restored 1916 Buick that was in my shop two years ago.

[tblack]

Hard to tell but looks as though the cylinder block and stater generator have remnants of the early buick green

[DonMicheletti]

The S/G and water pump do look green

[Morgan Wright]

Yeah they do, but I'm suspicious because I see the same green on the engine between jug pairs, and on the starter sliding gear cover, might be a very early restoration.

[DonMicheletti]

The cylinders look green - it is all one piece.  Bell housing too

[tblack]

The early olive green is listed from 1922 to 1930.....that sure looks like remnants of an early cleanup paint job but probably not from day 1.    While factory  paint may not have been used til 1922 perhaps restorers felt there was some advantage to painting earlier stuff .  I do like that olive green and may paint the upper cylinder block while it is clean apart and uninstalled.   I painted the exhaust manifold with the cast iron grey and the intake manifold black so maybe I'll go modern with paint for 1922. I left the rocker towers and lifter housings unpainted.  As I rewire the spark plugs I'll repaint the wire housing black. The fittings from the waterpump to water jacket on my car are nickle that seems to be the case with the picture Mark provided as well. I repainted my pump black but left the nickle tubing

 

The prototype of the shortened valve cage from the 23 exhaust cages worked well.  Should have the rest back soon and then put it all back together.

[Morgan Wright]

When you shortened the cage did you have to use a shorter valve too? I have 2 mint (NOS) exhaust valves for 1918 that I never used, I got off ebay in case he needed them but he never used them, I don't know if it's shorter.

[tblack]

No the valves are the same just the cage shortened.    The valves in the 23 and the 18 look the same....no idea of what the original 17 valves were.   If I had 4 more 18 to 23 cages I could ditch the 17 cages and use your valves but no options at this time. I'll try to run into the gent I sold my 21 roadster to as he ended up with the last of my buick parts....there was a lot of stuff there including (2) 1922 engines.