Wiring help - installed halo lights, but trying to get them to work with both the parking lights and low/high beams.

[Hazdaz]

So I bought some halo lights and replaced the sealed beam lights with H4 halogens (for low and high beams) for the '64.  The halos are wired  in with the parking lights.  I really like how they look and they give a lot of soft light off to the corners of the car (a very weak point of the stock lighting package).  This makes taking a turn a lot easier because the halos light up the inside corner of the street so you can see any curbs or potholes. 

 

My issue is that I want to have the halos also work with the low and high beams.  I know I could wire the halos on a separate switch if I have to, but it would be nice to have them go on automatically if I put the parking lights or low/high beams on.  I've looked at the wiring diagram for the car but don't see a good way of doing this.  If I wired them to the parking lights *and* low/high beams, my understanding of this wiring diagram tells me that the parking lights would stay on, when the low/high beams were switched on.  That isn't actually a terrible thing, I don't I'd like to get some other people's opinions on this.  I also fully admit that reading wiring diagrams in not something I am great at, so I might be missing an obvious place to tap into to get this to work. 

 

 

[steelman]

When I wanted my low and high beams on together, I installed Painless 30802 relay for 88-98 GM trucks. There may be another way to do it, but this worked for me.

[KongaMan]

Run a pigtail off each of the three circuits (high, low and parking).  Put a diode on each.  Connect the cathodes of the three diodes together, then connect that to the halo lights.  Each of the three circuits will operate as it does now; any of them will trigger the halos.

 

Of course, it's better to do this with a relay: have the diodes trigger the relay while the lights draw power from the battery rather than through the dash switch.  Even better still, run all your lights through relays rather than the dash switch.

 

But if you're just trying to illuminate your turns, install some factory cornering lights.

[Hazdaz]

"Put a diode on each."

 

That was one of the ideas I had, but talking to my electrical engineering coworkers about it, they said a diode wouldn't work in this particular situation because of some electrical reason that was above my knowledge.  Now to be fair there might have been some miscommunication on my part which I can revisit and also offer up the wiring diagram for their inspection.

 

Concerning the relay issue, is there a reason why the car doesn't use relays to begin with?  Is that not a common thing for cars of this vintage?

 

The halos just look pretty damn cool, so that's the main consideration for this mod.  After installation I noticed just how much light they were puttinging out - they were bright but didn't throw the light far, which is of course why they couldn't be used for an actual low or high beam. The light they were putting out though landed in the area right in front of the car, which has been a sore point for me because of the poorly lit, narrow roads around here which makes navigating this beautiful boat a little iffy at night.  Just as an example, the other night I could see the corner leading up to my driveway better after I turned the headlights OFF and took the turn with the parking lights and halos on.  

[RockinRiviDad]

Any new news? Can u post a pic. I’d like to see what a Riv with halos

[Hazdaz]

18 hours ago, RockinRiviDad said:

Any new news? Can u post a pic. I’d like to see what a Riv with halos

 

Pics attached.  Lights always come out differently in photos because of the white-balance.  The halo rings are much more defined in real life.  In the first pic, it looks like the entire headlights are glowing, but its just the rings in person.

 

I still haven't tried wiring them up to the low beams yet, they are only working with the parking lights for now.  My fall back position will be to have them on their own switch.

 

 

[RivNut]

1 hour ago, Hazdaz said:

 

Pics attached.  Lights always come out differently in photos because of the white-balance.  The halo rings are much more defined in real life.  In the first pic, it looks like the entire headlights are glowing, but its just the rings in person.

 

I still haven't tried wiring them up to the low beams yet, they are only working with the parking lights for now.  My fall back position will be to have them on their own switch.

 

 

 

Once you get this "nipped in the bud" be sure to write up an extensive how-to complete with part numbers and detailed installation instructions.

 

I like this idea for daytime running lights.  Once you get your system figured out, think of what it would take to have them on with the ignition switch but would then shut off when you turned o  your headlights. ?

 

Ed

Edited May 3, 2018 by RivNut (see edit history)

[RockinRiviDad]

That looks cool. What is even cooler is that flag on your antenna. Thx for that. Great idea. Where’s my flag…

 

Today’s world sure has funny views on Old Glory. 

[Hazdaz]

Minor update on the LED lighting.  

 

I had to order 40 of the wrong bulbs before I got the right socket, but still not quite the right bulb.  I ended up having to do some custom soldering of a 1157 LED bulb to make them fit the proper parking lights on the Riv.  In the first pic, the passenger side has the LED parking lights while the driver side does not.  It's a pretty big difference in light output.  I kept the turn signal stock for now.  

 

In the bottom pic, this is how it looks at night.

 

I still plan on hooking them up to the lowbeams eventually.

 

I also had ordered custom sequential LED tailights from Daper lighting only for them to sit on my order for a month.  I ended up having to cancel it.  I was not happy with them at all.

 

Anyways, this is just a small update.  To be continued.

[anestech*]

Any more updates?  I’m looking to do something similar when we get our 64

[Hazdaz]

Its not much of an update, but the halos worked great... until they stopped working altogether.  I have been super busy with other projects that I haven't honestly had the time to look into fixing them, but that has affected my nighttime driving (because the headlights stopped working as well).  Nowadays I pretty much have to be home by 7 or so, or I'm driving blind. 

 

The best thing about the halos was the fact that they would throw a lot of light toward the sides of the car - taking a turn on the Riv on a pitch black road was tough because the lights are so sunken in and toward the center of the car that corners of the road never got much illumination. 

 

Anyways, fixing the wiring (I'm hoping its just a loose connection) has now become closer to the top of priorities so we'll see.

[RivNut]

Are you running them through a relay?  I tried wiring some driving lights into the high-beam circuit on a van I once had that took me and my canoe into some really dark and winding river roads.  Bad idea.  The extra load being pulled by the driving lights caused my high-beam circuit killed everything.  Perhaps you need to run a separate circuit for the halo lamps ( halo - high altitude, low opening?) 

[Hazdaz]

I recall seeing a post that you (or someone else) mentioned a while ago about putting them through a relay, and I was considering it, but LEDs are soooo insanely power efficient that I wasn't really sure if it would be worth it.  My side/parking lights are also LEDs (and looking at going LED with the headlights as well) and all of them on probably put less of a strain on the electrical system than one old-school halogen bulb.  The draw from just one 60W headlight bulb is 5 amps.  The entire 4-light halo kit, I believe, was like 10-12W if my memory serves me correctly, which is about 1 amp.  I'd think I wouldn't need a relay for just 1A, but I don't know what other people's opinions are on that.

 

I believe the halos stopped working once when I hit a pothole and then they miraculously worked again, after a minute or two, but I think that started the ball rolling in loosening whatever is loose now.  Then again I might be totally wrong.  Next day I have some free time, I want to run power to the lights directly just to see if they turn on and then back track it from there and see if its a switch or other problem. 

 

If I go LED headlights I'd want to share with you guys as well.

 

To be continued...

[KongaMan]

If you're swapping out sealed beams for some newer, high power lamps, you can jigger the wiring to use the inboard lights as DRLs and use the outboard lights as headlights.  You won't lose any illumination by doing this.  In fact, you'll probably see a marked improvement because the new lamps are so much brighter than the old ones.

 

IIRC, there's a schematic for this posted somewhere around here.

 

It's still recommended to use relays for your lights even with LEDs, as the voltage loss through the longer, smaller factory wire will degrade the brightness somewhat.

[Hazdaz]

Never thought about wiring in DRLs for the headlights.  That's a pretty cool idea, but when the halos were working, I have them on a separate switch and those acted like DRLs not unlike most modern cars.

 

Any recommendations on what type/rating relay to use?  Can I use the same type that is used elsewhere on the car or some other GM relay?  

[KongaMan]

Use standard 30A Bosch auto relays.  They’re available everywhere, and there are scads of plugs, sockets, and mounting paraphernalia for them.

[anestech*]

On 10/12/2019 at 5:50 PM, Hazdaz said:

Its not much of an update, but the halos worked great... until they stopped working altogether.  I have been super busy with other projects that I haven't honestly had the time to look into fixing them, but that has affected my nighttime driving (because the headlights stopped working as well).  Nowadays I pretty much have to be home by 7 or so, or I'm driving blind. 

 

The best thing about the halos was the fact that they would throw a lot of light toward the sides of the car - taking a turn on the Riv on a pitch black road was tough because the lights are so sunken in and toward the center of the car that corners of the road never got much illumination. 

 

Anyways, fixing the wiring (I'm hoping its just a loose connection) has now become closer to the top of priorities so we'll see.

Did you ever end up changing the turn signals to LED?  I want to do both the parking and turns, as well as the rears (not sure if I want to do the Dapper sequentials or just LED bulbs).  And probably halos, still not sure. 😀

[Hazdaz]

Yeah all the exterior lights are LED except the headlights.  The turn signals and parking lights are way brighter and have a more modern white light than the yellowish incandescent bulbs.  

 

I was looking at Dapper for the taillights but they kind of screwed me over.  I had ordered their sequential kit and had a ship date of about 2 weeks or so.  Ok, no biggie.  2 weeks go by and nothing.  I email them and they say a couple more days.  Ok, fine.  Another week goes by and still nothing.  This goes on for way too long u till I cancel the order but by then I had burnt up way too much of the summer.  Right now i just have regular LED bulbs but plan on doing something special eventually, but I do not recommend  Dapper at all.

[NC1968Riviera]

8 hours ago, Hazdaz said:

I had ordered their sequential kit

Have you looked at Mustang Project's sequential tail light kits? A four bulb kit with flasher unit might work for you. Give them a call.

Mustang Project
300 Brushy Creek Rd.
Suite 304
Cedar Park, Texas 78613
Phone: 512-828-6417
Email: sales@mustangproject.com
800-631-0507(US Only) 512-828-6417 Worldwide

[RivNut]

You might contact Lambert Enterprises in Fort Wayne, IN.  They made panels for a friend's 1965 Riviera.    Check them out at www.Lamnbertenterprises.com

[anestech*]

9 hours ago, Hazdaz said:

Yeah all the exterior lights are LED except the headlights.  The turn signals and parking lights are way brighter and have a more modern white light than the yellowish incandescent bulbs.  

 

I was looking at Dapper for the taillights but they kind of screwed me over.  I had ordered their sequential kit and had a ship date of about 2 weeks or so.  Ok, no biggie.  2 weeks go by and nothing.  I email them and they say a couple more days.  Ok, fine.  Another week goes by and still nothing.  This goes on for way too long u till I cancel the order but by then I had burnt up way too much of the summer.  Right now i just have regular LED bulbs but plan on doing something special eventually, but I do not recommend  Dapper at all.

Awesome!  Do you have a list of the correct bulbs and where you got them from?  Also, which halo headlights you went with?  LED or halogen?
 

A previous owner of my car changed the headlights around so that they inners are the low beams and outers are the highs.  So when I do the headlights, I’ll probably start fresh with a new wiring harness as well.

[BulldogDriver]

Or do what I’m going to do, dual Hi/Lo beams using Hella kits #002850871 off of relays and led bulbs.

[anestech*]

24 minutes ago, BulldogDriver said:

Or do what I’m going to do, dual Hi/Lo beams using Hella kits #002850871 off of relays and led bulbs.

H4s in all 4 lights?

[BulldogDriver]

Yep

[Hazdaz]

RivNut and NC1968Riviera:

 

After the bad experience with Dapper, I soured on having someone else make them for me, so I ended up buying this board, which is what one of my projects will hopefully be based on:

 

 

 

I was going to make a housing to hold this board, use the stock lens and cover and solder on a standard connector.  Clearly I haven't gotten far enough to do it yet - life gets in the way of doing the projects you want to do.  To be continued...

 

anestech*:

 

I bought all the bulbs for the turn signal/corner lights on Amazon.  Just search for LED and the size of the socket.  They came in packs of 10 and quite honestly, they were pretty poor quality - the ones that worked were quite bright, but there were at least 2 or 3 dead bulbs in the 10-pack. 

 

I found 3 purchases I made last year, but I don't know which ones I used on the Buick and which ones I used for other things, so you might be better off not buying the exact same items.  In fact one of the 3 links don't work anymore:

 

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B017B9PT0S/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07568BJM1/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o04_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

For the headlights, I replaced the stock halogen bulbs and totally replaced the housing with a stock H4-style unit.  That way I can use any regular old H4 bulb which are super common.  Right now I just have regular halogen H4 bulbs, but popping in LED H4s should be easy once I figure out why they wont turn on - its probably a loose wire or something.  I got the H4 halogen housings from: https://www.octanelighting.com/

 

 

It looks like they have ones that flip color from white to orange so they can be used as a turn signal.  Not sure if I'd like that for the Riv since it has 4 headlights.  That might look better on a car with only 2 lights up front. 

 

 

 

[anestech*]

Thanks man, appreciate it.  I agree on the amber/white.  I dig it on the new Challengers because they just have 4 headlights with halos.  But I’m a Rivi with the big parking/turn lights, it wouldn’t look right.

[Hazdaz]

So we have lights!

 

OK, not really. 

 

Those are just the halos, but I figured out what was wrong.  I blew a fuse so these are running directly connected to the battery in the pic and passing the switch and fuse.  I think I am going to do what you guys suggested and use a relay to connect the halos. 

To be continued...

[jsgun]

These guys make LED tail lights, i like being able to switch patterns, looks good

 

https://easyperformance.com/products/buick-riviera-sequential-led-taillight-kit-63-64?variant=7542151675948

[Hazdaz]

Those do indeed look cool.  I hope they aren't just re-branded Dapper LED taillights though.  

 

Do you actually have these or you just found them?  

[Hazdaz]

Question for the 1st Gen Riv Crew... 

 

Where would be a good spot to tap off of for the relay for the halo LED lights?  I purchased a relay like you guys suggested and I was going to wire it up normally, but the option to use a trigger would solve one of the issues I have in that I am constantly forgetting that the lights are on.  Since the switch I am using is mounted right above the radio, I was thinking to maybe tap into one of those wires that is only on if the car is on.  

 

Any recommendations before I have to break out the multimeter and start poking around?

[anestech*]

I’m pretty sure the Easy Performance’s are the Dapper’s.

[jsgun]

15 hours ago, Hazdaz said:

Those do indeed look cool.  I hope they aren't just re-branded Dapper LED taillights though.  

 

Do you actually have these or you just found them?  

Just found them, but seriously considering them. I'd like to give it a try making my own, but the list of stuff I want to try making is getting way too long.

[RivNut]

Has anyone reached out to see what Lambert's might have to offer.  They're well recognized in the street rod industry.  

[RivNut]

On 10/29/2019 at 11:38 AM, Hazdaz said:

Those do indeed look cool.  I hope they aren't just re-branded Dapper LED taillights though.  

 

Do you actually have these or you just found them?  

I hate conjecture.  Therefore I contacted Easy Performance and got permission from them to copy and paste their response to me.  Seems that Hazdad has got it backward.

 

Here's the response that I received from Easy Performance:

 

Dapper Lighting is a distributor of our (Easy Performance) multi-pattern sequential LED taillight product line. They do not, as far as we have experienced, relabel or repackage Easy Performance products under their name. They sell our products under their product category of ‘Advanced Tail Lights’. They also sell our competitor’s products under the product category of ‘Simple Tail Lights’. Any product that Dapper sells that does not have our name (Easy Performance) on it will not be a product of ours.

Regarding someone having a bad experience with some lights from Dapper, we would doubt that was related to any of our products. We say this because we offer a Lifetime Warranty on our complete taillight product line, we warranty our products directly and do not require anyone to go through the place where they purchased them through, we provide technical support through email and phone to assist with resolving any technical issues that may arise with retrofitting our LED lighting systems into the vehicle. We are committed to our customers to provide them a highly advanced tail lighting solution that will be the last taillight they ever need to buy. From our experience, the people at Dapper Lighting have been among the best people to work with in the automotive aftermarket business.

 

If there is anything else we can do, please let us know.

 

Thank you,

Jim Wierzbicki

 

Easy Performance Products, LLC

3514 Roger B. Chaffee SE

Wyoming, MI  49548

USA

 

[Hazdaz]

I am very happy to hear that this is the other way around because I didn't feel like Dapper should be getting my money.

 

The driving season is definitely over now, so I'm gonna have to see if they are worth getting come springtime or if tinkering with the LED board I already have is worth doing.  I know that the overly fancy lighting patterns from the Easy Performance board is overkill, so dropping that much money on something that I'd mostly set to on-and-off (without the sequential pattern) might not be worth it.  

 

Rivnut, are you going to try these boards out?

[RivNut]

4 hours ago, Hazdaz said:

Rivnut, are you going to try these boards out?

When the time comes.  I'm in the middle of body and paint. Then comes interior. Then comes all the frilly stuff.  It will be a while at the pace my body is letting me work.

[jsgun]

Interesting reply. Easy Performance will get my business, soon as I save up enough pennies.