kclark Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 Nice day today so I got out the '29 Dictator to get on the road and put gas in it. On the way back it shut off. Red optima is dead. Won't hit a lick. Wondering what it could be that's draining the battery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trimacar Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 I had a bad experience with an Optima, too, they have to be constantly charged, mine sat for a couple of months and died, less than a year old. A lot of people are big fans, at this point I'm not. Lead acid batteries will give you some slack on maintenance, an Optima will not...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kclark Posted March 30, 2018 Author Share Posted March 30, 2018 (edited) I have 2 in the car and both are dead. I finally got back and I one on the charger now. And the thing of it is I drove it 3 miles to the gas station no problems. Filled up and started back and 3 miles later, it just dies. And I might need to learn how to hand crank to start it. Edited March 30, 2018 by kclark (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trimacar Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 You may find that your charger won't work on Optima. Some chargers can't "see" that there's a battery connected when the voltage goes low, and when an Optima is discharged, the voltage is basically nonexistent. Sometimes you can charge an Optima if it's put in parallel with a good lead acid battery, so the charger recognizes there's a battery there.... The old days of using any charger on any battery are gone, and we have to adjust to the times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kclark Posted March 30, 2018 Author Share Posted March 30, 2018 I'm using a NOCO Genius battery charger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimy Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 25 minutes ago, trimacar said: Sometimes you can charge an Optima if it's put in parallel with a good lead acid battery, so the charger recognizes there's a battery there.... +1. If an Optima goes flat or quite low (e.g., <5.7 volts), connect it in parallel with another reasonably-well-charged 6V battery and charge them together on a time basis. I haven't invested in fancy chargers, and have done well by charging for 2 hours, check voltage after a 30 minute rest, then continue charging if necessary. I won't leave my cell phone charging overnight either! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kclark Posted March 31, 2018 Author Share Posted March 31, 2018 I have the battery charged but still nothing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbk Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 The problem with OPTIMA is that when they fail you have to go to the dealer you bought it from. If you are 2000 miles away from the dealer on vacation you are out of luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kclark Posted March 31, 2018 Author Share Posted March 31, 2018 Optima battery shows good as I took it and had it tested. Car still won't do ANYTHING. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keninman Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 You didn't happen to put in a battery switch did you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kclark Posted March 31, 2018 Author Share Posted March 31, 2018 I did but seems to be good too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kclark Posted March 31, 2018 Author Share Posted March 31, 2018 Someone told me to jump the starter. How does one do that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keninman Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 50 minutes ago, kclark said: Someone told me to jump the starter. How does one do that? Post some good pictures of your starter please. Include any mechanical or electrical connections. Mine is completely mechanical, as you step on the starter pedal in the cabin it pushes in the starter lever to engage the bendix (they call it a pinion) with the ring gear on the flywheel and finally pushes down on the starter switch to energize its motor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinneyhill Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 Are you getting voltage at the starter? At the ignition switch? Check earth = ground to chassis and between chassis and engine and between engine and starter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kclark Posted March 31, 2018 Author Share Posted March 31, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Spinneyhill said: Are you getting voltage at the starter? At the ignition switch? Check earth = ground to chassis and between chassis and engine and between engine and starter. This is where I have to learn as I'm not a gearhead. First off, am I using a test light or voltage meter? and then I assume (if using test light) that I am clamping to ground and then putting the other end on the starter? and then switch also? and is this with the battery hooked up? Edited March 31, 2018 by kclark (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studeboy Posted April 1, 2018 Share Posted April 1, 2018 Doesn't this car have separate floor starter switch? Is the current going through the switch to the starter? Try running a jumper cable from the neg terminal of the battery to the cable on the side of the starter. If the starter turns over it may be the switch. The switch on my 28 Dictator died once. I took it apart and found a cocoon inside it. Removed the cocoon and it worked just fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kclark Posted April 1, 2018 Author Share Posted April 1, 2018 5 hours ago, studeboy said: Doesn't this car have separate floor starter switch? Is the current going through the switch to the starter? Try running a jumper cable from the neg terminal of the battery to the cable on the side of the starter. If the starter turns over it may be the switch. The switch on my 28 Dictator died once. I took it apart and found a cocoon inside it. Removed the cocoon and it worked just fine. Using keninman's picture above, would that be to the nut on the starter switch? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbk Posted April 1, 2018 Share Posted April 1, 2018 (edited) If you are not a mechanic , I would not mess with it. Batteries are dangerous and shorting out can lead to fires and damage. Do not work in your garage , go outside. Where are you located? One of our readers with experience in your area may volunteer to come and help you. If no-one steps up maybe someone can post a step by step procedure using a good voltmeter to check voltage drops to isolate bad grounds and switch continuity. Edited April 1, 2018 by rbk (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kclark Posted April 1, 2018 Author Share Posted April 1, 2018 1 hour ago, rbk said: If you are not a mechanic , I would not mess with it. Batteries are dangerous and shorting out can lead to fires and damage. Do not work in your garage , go outside. Where are you located? One of our readers with experience in your area may volunteer to come and help you. If no-one steps up maybe someone can post a step by step procedure using a good voltmeter to check voltage drops to isolate bad grounds and switch continuity. Right now the car is stuck outside anyway. I can get my voltage meter out and do some checking I just want to make sure that I am looking in the correct places. But if anyone would like to help out, I won't turn it down. I am just north of Charlotte, NC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kclark Posted April 1, 2018 Author Share Posted April 1, 2018 (edited) I believe the starter motor is bad. When checking out with someone pushing the for pedal, it smokes. Edited April 1, 2018 by kclark (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kclark Posted April 1, 2018 Author Share Posted April 1, 2018 Where is a good place to find one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbk Posted April 1, 2018 Share Posted April 1, 2018 (edited) Google Delco 720N The 720 was used in several makes and only a change in the letter behind it. Most of the parts inside are the same but the nose and bendix changed. Edited April 1, 2018 by rbk (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kclark Posted April 1, 2018 Author Share Posted April 1, 2018 1 hour ago, rbk said: Google Delco 720N The 720 was used in several makes and only a change in the letter behind it. Most of the parts inside are the same but the nose and bendix changed. I'll keep searching, but right now most of what comes up is batteries and not starter motors. Will I find a while replacement or better just trying to find rebuild parts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbk Posted April 1, 2018 Share Posted April 1, 2018 Try http://aerrebuild.com . Jason knows Studebakers and has been helpful to many Studebaker people. Did you try to hand crank the engine to make sure it is not locked up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kclark Posted April 1, 2018 Author Share Posted April 1, 2018 1 minute ago, rbk said: Try http://aerrebuild.com . Jason knows Studebakers and has been helpful to many Studebaker people. Did you try to hand crank the engine to make sure it is not locked up? I put the handle in it or just spins freely, no resistance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbk Posted April 1, 2018 Share Posted April 1, 2018 Pull the starter and see if the bendix is jammed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kclark Posted April 1, 2018 Author Share Posted April 1, 2018 I'll do that and report back Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studeboy Posted April 2, 2018 Share Posted April 2, 2018 If it was smoking there has to be a short. Starters are not that complicated. There should be a alternator and starter repair shop near you. As long as the bendix is alright the rest of the parts are common to many starters. A local shop worth their salt should be able to rebuild the motor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kclark Posted April 2, 2018 Author Share Posted April 2, 2018 One question that I have is this. I was driving down the road and the engine cutoff. No sputtering or spitting or anything. Just shuts off. I pull off the road and that's when this issue started. So would this make the engine stop? In my head and everything that I know (which ain't much), I say no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SC38dls Posted April 2, 2018 Share Posted April 2, 2018 I do not know specifics on. 29 Dictator but if it was running ok and just quits I would not think it is a starter problem. I would suspect the coil or points. If the battery was dead then you were not getting a charge from the generator so it would be a wiring problem or a short. As others have said check to see if you have power at each location so you can eliminate the switches. Again if it was running I just can’t see it being a starter problem. Good luck. Dave S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinneyhill Posted April 2, 2018 Share Posted April 2, 2018 (edited) It seems to me you have two problems. It cut out and the starter smokes. 18 hours ago, kclark said: No sputtering or spitting or anything. Just shuts off. You say there is no resistance on turning it with the crank handle? I wonder if you have a broken cam gear? Did they have a fiber gear? I had exactly that on my 1939 one day. It just stopped dead. Was there a dull thud knock for a while, days or weeks, before it happened? Edited April 2, 2018 by Spinneyhill (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keninman Posted April 3, 2018 Share Posted April 3, 2018 I looked at my starter and it is a Delco-Remey 726-F. What worries me about this post is that I know my bendix often sticks in the ring gear, I just quickly reach down and pull up the floor pedal to disengage. Is there a chance Mr. Clark that you could have driven with the starter stuck in the ring gear? Though I think this would have been very noisy. The starter would act as a generator, backfeeding the electrical system and itself would eventually sustain severe mechanical damage since these models were not designed to act a generators. For troubleshooting determine if any other electrical devices work, i.e. - headlamps, horn, dash lamps? As for the starter smoking, a motor is a dead short when it is not turning, the expanding and collapsing magnetic field is what provides the electrical resistance. This is what is called, locked rotor amps and they can be very very high. As SC38DLS said, points, loss of power to the coil, a short in the coil to points somewhere would be much more likely suspects for the engine dying. There is an overcurrent relay on mine mounted right beside the fuel gauge. It buzzes like crazy if I try to draw too much current. I think all of the power coming into the car goes there from the starter connection. It would be a good place to start. One last thing, the car should be a positive ground vehicle the exact opposite of a modern car, don't mess this one up. The starter doesn't care, it will run backwards, nor do the lights or coil, however I doubt your generator would survive a reverse connection long since I believe it will try to run as a motor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kclark Posted April 5, 2018 Author Share Posted April 5, 2018 I pulled the starter and put it on the ground and hooked it up to a spare 6 volt battery and it seems to run as it should without any smoke. But for safe measure, I'm sending it off to have it checked. When I get it back I'll go from there. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kclark Posted April 6, 2018 Author Share Posted April 6, 2018 On 4/2/2018 at 4:03 PM, Spinneyhill said: You say there is no resistance on turning it with the crank handle? I tried it again and I am getting resistance. What was going on, I was not pushing the hand crank in enough to engage the motor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keninman Posted April 6, 2018 Share Posted April 6, 2018 Watch several videos on hand cranking first. It is great way to break an arm or damage a fender. I prefer push starting but yours is probably awful heavy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kclark Posted April 6, 2018 Author Share Posted April 6, 2018 On 4/1/2018 at 5:09 PM, rbk said: Pull the starter and see if the bendix is jammed. It wasn't jammed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kclark Posted April 6, 2018 Author Share Posted April 6, 2018 48 minutes ago, keninman said: Watch several videos on hand cranking first. It is great way to break an arm or damage a fender. I prefer push starting but yours is probably awful heavy. Yep tried to push start it but we couldn't get it going fast enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kclark Posted April 11, 2018 Author Share Posted April 11, 2018 ***UPDATE*** She is running again!!! I got the starter back from the shop. There are 2 positive and 2 negative terminals inside and 2 were loose. They tightened those up and clean it up a little. Put it back in and it turned over. Now for the just turning off part. I had help from a friend mechanic who works on hot rods and older cars in general. He helped me get the starter back in. We cranked it up and it ran for a minute or two while we talked. We were discussing it cutting off and while we were talking, well it shut off. We got to looking at the distributor and coil and we weren't getting anything. We looked at the wires coming from the "key" switch and one of the wires was slightly loose. We tightened it up and that seems to be it. It even cranks up A LOT faster now. I am a HAPPY camper!!! Hopefully it warms up again in a few days so I can get it out and wash it down. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinneyhill Posted April 12, 2018 Share Posted April 12, 2018 Xclnt! Well done. Nothing too expensive either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now