alsfarms Posted October 31, 2019 Author Share Posted October 31, 2019 (edited) Here is an after picture of the same item. Note how it scarfed off the heavy rust and cleaned out the internal spring assembly. Edited December 7, 2019 by alsfarms clarity (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsfarms Posted October 31, 2019 Author Share Posted October 31, 2019 I did learn several good things from my first Ultrasonic Cleaner test batch. Better detergent or cleaning additive should be used. It will take time to do, no quick fix! Not the best for heavy rust, however it is good for cleaning joints and other places that can seize up with rust. This Ultrasonic cleaner will be great for giving a Carburetor a bath that may have some stuck internal pieces as this also works to do its magic inside a carb. The torque spring assembly, (above) now that this test is completed will get a trip to my sand blaster to finish cleaning it for disassembly and repair. Al 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsfarms Posted November 14, 2019 Author Share Posted November 14, 2019 Here is a follow-up to the parts cleaning of the Locomobile front torque spring assembly. First above you saw a before picture, then an after picture showing what the sonic cleaner can do. Lastly, here I will post a couple of pictures of the torque spring assembly after having some love shown by my sand blaster. We are now ready to dismantle the assembly for repair and duplication of parts. Picture 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsfarms Posted November 14, 2019 Author Share Posted November 14, 2019 Picture 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsfarms Posted November 14, 2019 Author Share Posted November 14, 2019 Picture 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsfarms Posted November 14, 2019 Author Share Posted November 14, 2019 It is amazing what our good old friend the sand blaster does to clean parts! It also does a fine job cleaning out the rust pits so they can be cleaned and prepared for final paint. More updates as I move along. If anyone may need one of these units, I can provide dimensions to aid in duplicating this item. Al 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ak Posted November 14, 2019 Share Posted November 14, 2019 On 3/7/2019 at 10:43 AM, alsfarms said: This is a restored rear spring rear shackle, with a new pin installed. I had to have patterns made and new castings poured for these rear shackles. JR 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ak Posted November 14, 2019 Share Posted November 14, 2019 Do you think that this torque thing is really necessary? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsfarms Posted November 15, 2019 Author Share Posted November 15, 2019 (edited) Hello John, I sure think it is better to allow for a bit of controlled movement between the rear end and the rest of the car. The torque arm and this torque spring assembly allows some flex while minimizing the spring wrap when the car is under acceleration or at times when the car is pulling under a load and up a hill. It will also control the spring wrap when the car is be braked. So....yes, I think this is a good little item to have in the system. I should have the bottom removed out of this assembly and the bottom spring, shortly. That will allow me to apply some controlled heat on the pivot sleeve, then loosen and remove the through bolt. I will then be able to duplicate that bolt and send you back the original for your use. I am surprised, this unit was rusty but does not show very much wear at all. If I had known that you had patterns built for these rear shackles, (shown above), I would have spoke to you! I went to great lengths to resurrect these rear shackles for use on my Locomobile. I may yet inquire about the possibility of having a new set cast up. Al Edited November 15, 2019 by alsfarms clarity (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsfarms Posted December 2, 2019 Author Share Posted December 2, 2019 Hello All, This is a technical question for those of you that have a good degree of welding experience. I worked as a Boiler Maker and know my way around welding, stick, TIG, Squirt gun and Gas. I am simply stymied however with a problem. I would like to know of a welding procedure that will work on the Manganese Bronze castings that make up the crankcase, transmission case and steering gear castings of our Locomobiles. I have one spot that I will repair if I can come up with a bullet proof welding procedure, (Cosmetic not structural). I am at wits end and will appreciate any good information. Al 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsfarms Posted December 10, 2019 Author Share Posted December 10, 2019 I will share a picture of the main bolt as removed from the originally rusted and seized torque spring assembly. This original main bolt is on its way east to find its place in another Locomobile under restoration. That is great news! I was impressed that after some struggle, time and effort, I was able to remove the main bolt without the use of a heat wrench, (saving the integrity of the bolt). It is good news to the Locomobile that this bolt is heading for....it is in great original shape and can be used as is. It is good to see ongoing restoration work taking place on Locomobile automobiles! Al 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsfarms Posted December 10, 2019 Author Share Posted December 10, 2019 Here is a view of the cleaned up torque spring assembly test fit with a modern replacement bolt. This grade 8 bolt will need to be machined to match the original as shown above. The most difficult machine process will be cutting the grease grooves running from each end of the grease through hole and used to distribute grease into the load bearing part of the bolt stem. Al 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsfarms Posted December 10, 2019 Author Share Posted December 10, 2019 I will now show you my delightful freehand sketch showing specific dimensions of the torque string assembly main bolt. This actually will be a nice little machine job that should not be real time intensive. Just a side note....I thing this torque spring assembly, as shown above , may be the "culprit" in another Locomobile discussion being held in the Locomobile 48 and 38 Gathering Place that involves clutch lunge while in reverse. It will be nice to learn of the outcome and resolution of that problem. This sketch may put a smile on your face, but it works for me.... Al 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsfarms Posted December 10, 2019 Author Share Posted December 10, 2019 With the new main bolt built for the torque spring assembly, I will have to break out my drawings for an original "pinch top" grease fitting and build another one for this application, I have already built a bunch of these grease fitting assemblies but did not build one for this application. Here is what I will be building. I have not completed the machine work to form the "Pinch Top" of the brass cap yet. That will be the last part of this fun project. I will also share a secret, under the brass cap is not a cavity for grease to be pushed into them forces down by turning down the Pinch top but the cap covers a modern grease fitting for a much cleaner and positive method for greasing what needs greasing! You now know my little secret. Al 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsfarms Posted December 31, 2019 Author Share Posted December 31, 2019 I am curious, does anyone here know of other Locomobile Model L Locomobile's that are in some form of repair or restoration? I can think of only a few that are in active restoration and know of a couple that are old originals and sitting in garage corners. It would be nice to know of any other early Locomobile automobiles either in the US or elsewhere that will be put back on the road. Al 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsfarms Posted February 3, 2020 Author Share Posted February 3, 2020 Here is an update. I have finally decided that, for comforts sake and my wife, I will be installing a two piece, sloped windshield assembly on the Locomobile Toy Tonneau. I did locate and procure a very nice set of heavy cast brass hinges that are made for the lower windshield to lean back at a bout a 45 deg angle, while the top frame is to be vertical. This picture will show the two stops on the cast hinge as well as part of the brass support rod. Al 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsfarms Posted February 3, 2020 Author Share Posted February 3, 2020 Here is a second picture that shows the side profile of the windshield assembly. I have located a source for brass windshield frames that I can use to renew/restore this assembly back to nice condition. As you can tell, I will need to invest some time and love to bring these hinges back but I like that they are sold brass and will turn out nice when finished and polished. Share your thoughts.... Al 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Harper Posted February 3, 2020 Share Posted February 3, 2020 On 12/2/2019 at 11:02 AM, alsfarms said: Hello All, This is a technical question for those of you that have a good degree of welding experience. I worked as a Boiler Maker and know my way around welding, stick, TIG, Squirt gun and Gas. I am simply stymied however with a problem. I would like to know of a welding procedure that will work on the Manganese Bronze castings that make up the crankcase, transmission case and steering gear castings of our Locomobiles. I have one spot that I will repair if I can come up with a bullet proof welding procedure, (Cosmetic not structural). I am at wits end and will appreciate any good information. Al Hello Alan, Not sure if you found an answer. My first thought was stitching it. There is a MIG welding wire out there for manganese bronze. They use it for welding large ship propellers. I always look at welding these old castings as a last resort. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsfarms Posted February 3, 2020 Author Share Posted February 3, 2020 (edited) Hello Terry, I will try to get a picture of what some previous owner did to my engine, in a brutal fashion. It is the mounting flange for the magneto that has been messed with that I would like to restore cosmetically. This would only be a cosmetic repair, if I can figure out a proper weld/braze procedure to complete the repair. Years ago, I had another steering gear that had a broken manganese bronze casting. This was a smaller item that I could move around and get in a good position for attempted repairs. TIG, Gas, Stick with different fillers heats and settings....the casting simply was not responding. (I did not have the correct wire to even attempt using MIG). I wonder if the new cold fusion welding may be a remedy? I have never been around cold fusion welding so I know little about it. Regards, Al Edited February 3, 2020 by alsfarms clarity (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsfarms Posted February 4, 2020 Author Share Posted February 4, 2020 As this Locomobile restoration moves along I have a need for a locking lever for one of the top saddles I have for the Locomobile. Please see the attached picture . If you have a damaged mate to the top saddle shown, I have I would be interested purchasing for the locking lever to complete my pair. Al 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsfarms Posted April 11, 2020 Author Share Posted April 11, 2020 I, like all of us, have been sequestered at home, ( I am ok with being home!). But while the battle rages against COVINT-19, I am quietly still at work on the Locomobile. I decided to open up the crate that I have used to store the Model L radiator until such time that I can address the restoration. I will post a few pictures. Al Picture 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsfarms Posted April 11, 2020 Author Share Posted April 11, 2020 Picture 2 Here is a question. What is the purpose of the dividing baffle plates on this and many other early automobile radiators? I assume that the baffle plate allow for even water distribution? Al 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsfarms Posted April 13, 2020 Author Share Posted April 13, 2020 Who knows of a good source for "soft" Yellow sheet brass? I need to purchase enough yellow brass sheet to replace both side panels of this radiator. Both sides have been dinged up. It will be easier to form and replace the sides that try to restore them to a satisfactory level of visual cosmetics. Al 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AHa Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 (edited) Al, I think the baffle plates distribute the weight. These old radiators are extremely heavy and without the baffle plates they begin to distort in short order. The brass is just way too soft to support itself with the jarring and vibration of road use. Most of the professional radiator shops would not attempt to work on your radiator. 100 year old brass is just way too finicky. If you have a commercial salvage place close to you, I would check with them on brass sheet. Though not cheap, it would be way less expensive than buying new. Most shops no longer store overruns in the manufacturing process. Whatever is left over is promptly sold for scrap. I have bought multiple sheets from my local salvage yard. Earlier you asked about radiator size for a wisconsin engine. The easiest and simplest solution is to check a car or truck that used the particular motor you have in mind. Just remember, it was not an exact science early on. I know the early Chevrolet radiator was too efficient and a restrictor plate was installed to keep the water from circulating too quickly. Through the years most of these rotted out and the cars notoriously overheated after restoration untill someone figured out the problem and issued a memorandum in a club publication. Even now the information is not widely known and I had a friend who sold his car after a meticulous restoration because he couldn't stop it from overheating. Rather than replacing the sides, you might consider adding a second layer. It might be less dangerous, depending on your soldering skills and equipment. The professionals make it look easy, even on the old stuff, but they all moan and complain when tasked. Edited April 13, 2020 by AHa (see edit history) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsfarms Posted April 14, 2020 Author Share Posted April 14, 2020 These early radiators are heavy, for sure! Thanks for your observations. You suggest overlaying the side panels. That is a thought but I think I will replace them with nice new panels. Soldering is easy however it can be finicky also. The main thing is to have all surfaces very CLEAN. Then use a liberal amount of good quality etching paste/flux. This Locomobile radiator side panels are really just cosmetic as then do nothing but look nice. They are not part of the structure or need to be water tight. Thanks again. Al 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsfarms Posted April 18, 2020 Author Share Posted April 18, 2020 I hope everyone is staying close to home and avoiding the issues caused by this Coronavirus Pandemic. So far so good for myself and family. I am getting used to the solitary existence! I suppose it comes more natural to someone who has lived his whole life in a quiet small rural town. I thought I would show this group a few pictures of the , factory from 1909, Locomobile rear axle that came with my automobile when new. (note i I have it stored upside down). This is the first shaft drive model offered by Locomobile and they meant business with this robust design! Al Picture 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsfarms Posted April 18, 2020 Author Share Posted April 18, 2020 Picture 2 (notice the cast lug that allows for jacking up the automobile without damaging the truss rod or anything else) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsfarms Posted April 18, 2020 Author Share Posted April 18, 2020 Picture 3 (notice the unusual design for the U-joint) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsfarms Posted April 18, 2020 Author Share Posted April 18, 2020 Picture 4 (this one shows the brake configuration, internal expanding and external contracting, I had to have new brake drum cast as the originals were bad) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsfarms Posted April 18, 2020 Author Share Posted April 18, 2020 Picture 5 (this one shows the provision for the torque arm that controls the rear end torquing when under acceleration, to the left of the pinion)) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsfarms Posted April 20, 2020 Author Share Posted April 20, 2020 Picture 6 This picture shows the trailing arms that adjust and keep the rear axle in the proper alignment or track. Al 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AHa Posted April 21, 2020 Share Posted April 21, 2020 (edited) Al, Is that the original paint showing through the rust? Edited April 21, 2020 by AHa (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsfarms Posted April 22, 2020 Author Share Posted April 22, 2020 The Locomobile chassis was white, most likely from the factory that way. I don't think I will go back white when it comes time to paint. Al 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AHa Posted April 22, 2020 Share Posted April 22, 2020 It's hard to believe a 1909 chassis was ever painted white with the road conditions at the time, though I do remember the 09 Buick 10 was painted white. I'm guessing the red I see shining through is red oxide primer. This leads me to believe someone started restoring the rear axle assembly some time years ago, correct? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsfarms Posted April 22, 2020 Author Share Posted April 22, 2020 I agree, if white is the theme of the car, and I have seen several, then good. White is just not my "cut of Tea" so to speak. Nor the rear end has never been broken into since the car left the factory. I know because the remains of this car spent most of its life 75' from my back door. Al 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AHa Posted April 22, 2020 Share Posted April 22, 2020 Al, Is this the rear end you will use in your car or do you have another? How do you explain a total lack of any trace of white paint on the differential? In your arid environment, there should be some trace of paint, albeit small. Moreover, there appears to be some remnant of a red paint on the hogs head. Too many questions, I know, but you posted the pictures. Do you have any answers? I have an overactive curiosity. A 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsfarms Posted April 22, 2020 Author Share Posted April 22, 2020 This is the only "Locomobile" axle I have and it did come from the factory in my frame, I have shown the frame previously. Your questions have merit and I have considered the very questions that you pose. When I get to the actual breakdown and rebuilding (as needed) I will have it in a much better position for scrutiny before repaint. At that time I will be able to share a much better summary on your questions. Al 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsfarms Posted April 22, 2020 Author Share Posted April 22, 2020 (edited) Here is a frustrating comment regarding my Locomobile. After the Locomobile chassis was moved to another of my Great Grand dads properties, about 4 houses away, this would have been in the 1950's, someone (a hub cap collector) snuck in and stole all four of the original cast Brass hubcaps. It has taken me nearly 40 years of being patient and turning over every rock (so to speak) before I was lucky enough to now have in my possession a set of 4 original caps per the picture attached. Al Edited May 5, 2020 by alsfarms spelling (see edit history) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsfarms Posted May 4, 2020 Author Share Posted May 4, 2020 Good news, I have, on order, a new brass windshield assembly to go with the original hinges shown above posted on Page 9, Feb. 2. I will need to determine how I desire to mount the brass stay rods on each side of the body. Any ideas from you fellows? Al 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AHa Posted May 4, 2020 Share Posted May 4, 2020 Al, Did you get the adjustable stay rods or the fixed length? They usually attach to the headlight fork mount in some fashion or thereabouts to the frame. Each car is somewhat different. I'm glad to hear you are making progress. When do you think you'll get that rear differential assembly out and clean it up and go through it? It seems that would be more important than having a windshield for a car you haven't built yet. I know you want to have all the parts before you begin the restoration and you are getting closer, obviously. I'm just anxious to see a chassis. Al 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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