first64riv Posted October 27, 2016 Share Posted October 27, 2016 Hello all. My name is Chris and I am new to this forum. I recently bought a 64 Riviera and along with it I inherited a transmission leak. I was going to try to tackle it with a friend if it turns out to be the front seal. My question is, how DIY friendly is the 64 Riviera TH400 R&R (remove and replace)? My biggest concern is not being able to raise the car high enough to get the transmission out. Are the bellhousing bolts accessible on your back? Is this something that I should have a transmission shop take care of? I will post the technical side of this endeavor in the technical forum. Thank you for reading. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lump Posted October 27, 2016 Share Posted October 27, 2016 (edited) Chris, Many years ago I worked in a transmission shop, where we specialized in swapping out entire transmissions, and doing "complete reseal" jobs. Generally speaking (from my own experience back in the day), if the front seal was leaking, it was caused by the main front bushing going bad (which the shaft of the torque converter rides upon). We could quickly change these out. Short version project description: We first dropped the drive shaft, then the tranny mount and cross member.(yes, we had to be careful with certain models, that the distributor cap wouldn't get busted against the firewall). We disconnected the shift linkage, vacuum lines, and any wiring and/or detent cables (IE: GM 350 turbo). We removed all bolts from the flex plate. Then, when the rear of the transmission dropped down, we could use a LONG 1/2" drive extension and a universal (wobble) socket on an impact, and quickly remove all the bell housing bolts. Then we used a very long Snap On screw driver or pry bar to pop the trans loose. Using a transmission jack (obviously, we were working with a car hoist), we lowered the transmission to about chest height. We prided ourselves in doing these "reseal" jobs quickly. So we left the trans on the jack, and using a special tool, we pulled the old front (and rear) bushings out of the trans right off the bat. Then we used a special driver, and put brand new bushings back in place. Then we installed new seals at both of these locations, plus all the smaller seals too (shift linkage, detent cable, etc). We also replaced "O" rings, such as the speedometer and dipstick tube. Then we re-installed the transmission, filled it with fluid, started the car, and checked it carefully for leaks. Yes, you CAN do all that yourself. But doing it on your back in a home garage with no hoist and no transmission jack is NO PICNIC! First off, a GM 400 turbo is a HEAVY transmission. Secondly, you MUST have a bushing puller and a driver for both the bushing and the new seal to do the job. My opinion? At least get a quote from a pro, first. If you've never done this job before...you're in for some surprises. Edited October 27, 2016 by lump (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
first64riv Posted October 27, 2016 Author Share Posted October 27, 2016 Hey Lump, thanks for the advice and the background. I did get quoted from one shop and they told me 500 to 600 if it's something simple. Max I'd say is $1,200 for something more major. When I hear those numbers I think about all the tools I could invest in and do the job myself...that of course means my own labor. I'll call around and get some other prices. Thanks! Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexRiv_63 Posted October 27, 2016 Share Posted October 27, 2016 Welcome to the forum. I never did a trans job on a riv but I did do one on another car long ago in my garage. You need to borrow or rent a low profile transmission jack with wheels designed to work under the car. You may be able to get the car high enough if you have a high lift jack and large safety stands. It's important to support the engine with a come along strap or wood blocks between the heads and firewall. I actually used a rented engine hoist to lift the front of the car high enough to get the trans out from under the car, make sure the weight rating is high enough. Not easy but definitely possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
misterc9 Posted October 27, 2016 Share Posted October 27, 2016 The neck of the torque converter may be worn where the front seal rides . Check it carefully , you might need a rebuilt torque converter. The lip of the seal sometimes wears a slight groove in the converter neck. A new seal won't seal properly on the groove and it will still leak a little or a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
60FlatTop Posted October 27, 2016 Share Posted October 27, 2016 Space is really tight and the X-frame makes it a little touchy to support safely with jack stands if you are really a home garage mechanic. Be very careful in selecting jack stands. I would suggest two pairs of Hein-Werner, like these: http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200349988_200349988?cm_mmc=Google-pla&utm_source=Google_PLA&utm_medium=Automotive > Jacks&utm_campaign=Hein-Werner Automotive&utm_content=155719&gclid=CM-p7NGw-88CFZA2aQodK6MLhQ Your life depends on it. When working under the car use the stands plus the jack under the end you are working on. A stack of mounted wheels between the frame and floor are another good safety measure. If your tools are limited you will be using your jack to lower the tranny. If you lower the rear of the engine don't break the fan shroud, bend the tranny lines, or stretch the radiator hose. As above, be careful about mixing old parts with new. Most leaking seals replaced on old shafts don't last. I walked out of a Tim Horton's coffee shop Tuesday night and saw a sign for help at $9.50 per hour. At this point it might be good to work part time there and give the money to the shop. There will be many more jobs to develop your learning curve and independence. Make every effort to do things yourself. But this is a big bite. Better to defer the job and think "someday I will be doing that myself". Get the jack stands either way. Bernie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheezestaak2000 Posted October 27, 2016 Share Posted October 27, 2016 not all that difficult of a job. a lot of good advice given above. mostly just take it slow, use common sense, and have some long extensions, and a few swivel sockets Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
first64riv Posted October 28, 2016 Author Share Posted October 28, 2016 60FlatTop - I picked up a pair of 6 ton stands last night and I'm hunting for another pair. I am also planning to buy a transmission jack and a heavy duty floor jack. I was using 2 ton floor jacks and I can't believe I was under there with those after comparing them to the 6 tons. I will have total of 8 supports under there, including two floor jacks and some tires when I start this job. When the day I actually decide to it comes, I will definitely see if it's best left to a shop or if I should do it myself. cheezestaak2000 - I plan to complete this job, IF I decide to tackle it, in about a 4 week time span. Sigh, i wish I had a lift. Thanks for the input guys! Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
60FlatTop Posted October 28, 2016 Share Posted October 28, 2016 It is never as straight forward as you think. It might be wise to drain the cooling system and remove the radiator and fan shroud just to be safe. Also disconnect the throttle linkage before the back of the engine goes down. With the engine lowered you will have real good access to the heater hoses where they enter the core. It would be a good time to change them. Slice the hose with a razor knife along the fitting and peel it off. Twisting and pulling can damage the fittings. The factory hoses were molded with a 90 degree bend, If you new hose kinks you can put a copper 90 and a couple of clamps at that point. There is also special tight bend heater hose if you choose. Those cheapie split tube jack stands look pretty scary once you get a good one in your hands don't they. Well, I do practice what I preach. There's a stack under the bumper. Good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexRiv_63 Posted October 29, 2016 Share Posted October 29, 2016 Here's a couple pictures showing how a shop supported the back of my engine during a transmission job, not a Riv but the idea would work on most cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmTee Posted October 29, 2016 Share Posted October 29, 2016 (edited) Rather than trying to support the frame, I would jack the car first front, then back, repeatedly, each time inserting blocks under the tires. When finished, the car will be supported on its wheels and will be much more stable. Cribbing can be made using a pair of 4x4 blocks nailed together and stacked with ends perpendicular on adjacent layers. This might take take an hour or two to get the car 18" - 24" off the ground, but it will be very stable if done properly. Also -- chock the tires (nail 2x4 blocks to the top layer of cribbing next to the tires) and set the parking brake. REMEMBER - 'Park' means nothing with the driveshaft removed! Edited October 29, 2016 by EmTee typo (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheezestaak2000 Posted November 23, 2016 Share Posted November 23, 2016 seems to me, there was a job on 60's amc cars that required supporting the engine. we would put a couple shop manuals, or thick phone books on yhe top of the front fenders. place a steel bar on top of them, and chain up the engine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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