Fluids for 1935 Dictator

[ken1007]

What modern day fluids are recommended for: engine oil, tranny, differential, and cooling?  Shop manual is somewhat dated; as to engine oil, VR-1 sounds reasonable as it is used in my other cars.  Assumption is synthetics are out.  Ken, Deltaville, Va   

 

 

 

Thanks to all , Ken 

Edited October 29, 2016 by ken1007 (see edit history)

[nvonada]

And here we go again!  This will probably turn into a thread with 75 different opinions.  But you heard mine first:

 

Synthetics are NOT out.   Synthetic oil is better in every respect than non synthetic unless you are TRYING to get wear (like seating new rings).  Shop manual is dated but still relevant.  Lets start easy. 

 

Transmission:  The transmission wants straight SAE 90 mineral gear oil.  We call that GL-1 and it is still out there but hard to find.  I get gallon jugs at NAPA (Part #65-201).   If for some reason you can't find that use SAE-30 non-detergent motor oil.  Do NOT use GL-5 and I would not recommend GL-4.  The additives in high-pressure gear oils increase wear of brass parts in your transmission. 

 

Differential:  GL-5 gear lube. 

 

Cooling:  Any quality antifreeze.  I use the old-fashioned green ethelyne glycol.  No more than a 60-40 mix with clean water.  

 

Engine:  Here is where the pitchforks and torches come out.  Your car predates detergent oils.    Detergents additives in the oil help keep gunk suspended in the oil so it flushes out in an oil change.  Non-detergent oils let stuff settle out.  So you end up with this:

That horrible gunk is 1/2" deep in the bottom of the pan.  60 years and non-detergent oil.  So the first thing I would do is find out how crappy your engine is inside.  Worrying about the finer points of oil composition seems a waste if your engine looks like mine did inside.  You may be able to sample the pan with a pencil though the drain plug or a long rod though the dipstick hole. 

 

OK, now we can talk ZDDP.  Oils from the 50s though the 90's had ZDDP added to improve the wear properties of flat tappet valve trains.  Modern engines almost all use roller lifters or cam followers so to improve emissions ZDDP has been vastly reduced or eliminated from most modern grades of oil.  Horror stories abound of cam lobes getting ground off very quickly when switching to these oil formulations.  I don't know how major the problem is but for my one oil change a year it seems like cheap insurance.  So I run VR-1 racing oil which has ZDDP and is easily available.  You can also buy the stuff at the parts store and add it yourself.  Now I need to go bar the door against the angry mob coming to punish my lubrication heresy.

 

 

 

Edited October 26, 2016 by nvonada (see edit history)

[Spinneyhill]

Good stuff. Just some additional thoughts...

 

You CAN use GL-5 in your gearbox with bronze parts, IF and ONLY IF you check the MSDS of the oil for the Copper Strip Corrosion Test and the result is an "a". If it is not given or is not an "a", look at another oil.

 

Engine oil: clean the sump and put in a multi-grade oil. I am not familiar with VR-1... otherwise a diesel oil of CI-4 rating contains plenty of zinc. I am using a 5W-40 CI-4 oil in my 1930 Dodge 8. If your oil gets dirty very quickly, change it sooner. In general, there is less wear with synthetics (but not all; some are better than others). The 5W or 10W part refers to the oil's behaviour when cold: lower = lower viscosity = faster lubrication on startup = less wear. For some more information, read Richard Widman's paper at http://www.widman.biz/Corvair/English/Links/Oil.html

 

One of the problems with non-detergent oil was that it turned to sludge as it got dirty. It didn't just leave sludge in the sump, it was all sludge. This was harder to pump around (i.e. higher viscosity) and of course being more viscous it carried all the bits of muck with it, including the big bits. When the engine was shut down, the crud was left where it landed and only a portion of it was re-entrained on next startup. So the inside of the engine is coated with muck, everywhere. A modern oil will gradually clean it out to some degree. Some will say it will block passages: if that happens they were already like that!

[C Carl]

 Those two guys know what they are talking about. I have been using synthetics since the ancient days when it was hard to find out on the road. You will be smart to find an appropriate synthetic gear oil. Many companies supply it. Use only synthetic grease. Also easy to find. Many years ago I was having difficulty finding synthetic on a long trip. I was sent to the feed store in Billings , MT. The synthetic oil purchase triggered a testimonial from a few gentlemen with large heavy agricultural machinery. They said that upon conversion to synthetic grease , wear at lube points ceased to be a problem. Made a believer out of me. Amsoil has a very good line of multi-grade synthetic lubricants with an appropriate amount of zinc and phosphorus. I read the extremely informative paper Spinney' linked above. A "must read" for car folk. I switched to Amsoil after reading it. Neither the author nor I rep or have any affiliation with Amsoil. Check it out , and give your relic the best. Drive it slowly and carefully.  -  Carl

[Stude Light]

See my comments in this post regarding ZDDP. 

Edited October 27, 2016 by Stude Light (see edit history)

[rbk]

This is a civilized crowd.

No flaming here!

We appreciate your posts.

Robert Kapteyn