alini Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 I got the car running, it and it sounds strong. I got timing dialed in very close, idle was at 1000. If i turned the rpm down the oil light flickered and by 1000 the light is on and I get a knock out of number one. So I get to pull my engine again, tear into it, see what kind of bearing damage we have and replace the pump. We did check the pump before we put it in and everything was to spec. Yes the oil galley plugs in the cam galleys is installed. Someone just shoot me and get it over with. Im to a point I might just call a shop to come get it and do the work....I dont want to play anymore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alini Posted March 22, 2016 Author Share Posted March 22, 2016 Anyone have luck removing an oil pan with the center link removed? Before I rip the entire front of the car apart to get the engine out, if I can drop the center link and then lift the engine and drop the pan to do an eval of bearings. If the bearings dont show any damage I will just throw a new pump in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slosteve Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 Have you tried a mechanical gauge on it, Chris? Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lapham3 Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 Yes-a gauge on it and then pull the #1 (and then maybe others individually)plug wire to 'unload' the cyl and see if the sound changes to verify-plastigage used to check bearing clearances-too bad you have to deal with this. Maybe step away from it for a bit for a reset-good luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
60FlatTop Posted March 22, 2016 Share Posted March 22, 2016 (edited) To remove the oil pan with the engine in the car you need to raise the engine about 4 inches. It is best to drain the coolant and disconnect the hoses as well as remove the fan shroud. The exhaust pipes needs to be disconnected too. The four pan bolts above the crossmember can be removed with 1/4" sockets. Then rotate the flywheel for some crankshaft clearance. Use light sewing thread through a few bolt holes to hold the new gasket in place when you put the pan in place. Yep, I know how to do it. Yep, I probably would take the extra couple of steps and remove the engine if I had to do it again. Remember "The level of perfection one can achieve is directly proportional to the number of times one is willing to do it over." The key word is "wiling". Things get really hard when you aren't willing. When you are willing it seems to become a moot point. Bernie Edited March 22, 2016 by 60FlatTop (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alini Posted March 22, 2016 Author Share Posted March 22, 2016 well removing the pan is a mute issues now. I drained the oil after work today and cut open the oil filter. Too much metal for my liking.....so engine is coming out. I have a bearing failing. Not sure where we went wrong, but something isnt right. And the machine shop who did the hot tank didnt clean out the oil galleys (and I failed to check them too), so the oil after fifteen minutes looks like it has 3000 miles on it. I should just have to replace the bearings on the lower end but we will tear it all the way down again....or I may pay someone too, so I dont miss something again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
60FlatTop Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 Let's see, the shop charged for a professional service. And you, an amateur, missed what they didn't do right. Would you hire a professional to check your work? I get accused of being cynical all the time, but I wasn't born that way. Go through the engine section of the shop manual and make a written checklist of all the steps and points of the assembly process and check each one off. You are working on this with your son. If you are readers get a copy of The Checklist Manifesto : https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0ahUKEwjkjcGgidfLAhWEJh4KHQJDDQcQFggcMAA&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.tribalmind.co%2FS3%2Ftribalmind-prod%2FDiscoveries%2FgU31-m5F0E2sviPfDlZrdQ.pdf&usg=AFQjCNF82dlNooUZqmxvQuWaUdDSqJDdOg&sig2=BX1sG1y-G3UIbdUNdn3iUA&bvm=bv.117218890,d.dmo&cad=rja Both of you read it and discuss it. I have a hard copy. The book is a valuable life's learning experience. Bernie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gord14080 Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 Chris,Don't stop now ,This is just another hurdle to over come,this will all be forgotten when you have your first drive.Good work keep it up! All the best, Gord Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alini Posted March 23, 2016 Author Share Posted March 23, 2016 My son and I talked it over, we went over everything we did together, what he did with the block while at school and what we see in the car right now. We believe we have a clogged oil line to the front of the engine and this has led to not enough oil getting to a bearing around the #1 rod which is the knock I was hearing, he never heard it thats how faint it is. This low oil to this one bearing has caused it to start failing, which is enough to allow the oil that was going to the bearing to not just bypass by and give us our low oil pressure. The engine doesnt produce alot of pressure to begin with at idle, so to lose any isnt good. We never heard a single sound from the top end, so we feel confident the cam, lifters and valves are all good, but we will remove the engine, tear is down to the block no matter what. We will check the cam bearings, we are planning on replacing the rod and main bearings, no matter what and when. We will go through each oil passage with some wire to ensure they are all cleared and blow them out with air. We will not assemble anything until we find a cause of our issue. As we assemble it we will be looking at everything twice, he will take a measurement and I will take a sperate measurement and we will agree we are good. We made way too many assumptions and I didnt watch over this shoulder or double check his numbers. We do know this, the carb is good and the ignition is good. We've been through them enough and the way the engine ran at throttle, this thing will be a beast when we get it completed this time. We will be taking our time, we are not rushing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RivNut Posted March 24, 2016 Share Posted March 24, 2016 If your son is really keen on being able to remember all that happened in the machine shop, he might find a clue in this write-up by Russ Martin. Lots of other tech tips on his website as well. http://nailheadbuick.com/oiling-problems Ed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1965rivgs Posted March 24, 2016 Share Posted March 24, 2016 11 hours ago, alini said: My son and I talked it over, we went over everything we did together, what he did with the block while at school and what we see in the car right now. We believe we have a clogged oil line to the front of the engine and this has led to not enough oil getting to a bearing around the #1 rod which is the knock I was hearing, he never heard it thats how faint it is. This low oil to this one bearing has caused it to start failing, which is enough to allow the oil that was going to the bearing to not just bypass by and give us our low oil pressure. The engine doesnt produce alot of pressure to begin with at idle, so to lose any isnt good. We never heard a single sound from the top end, so we feel confident the cam, lifters and valves are all good, but we will remove the engine, tear is down to the block no matter what. We will check the cam bearings, we are planning on replacing the rod and main bearings, no matter what and when. We will go through each oil passage with some wire to ensure they are all cleared and blow them out with air. We will not assemble anything until we find a cause of our issue. As we assemble it we will be looking at everything twice, he will take a measurement and I will take a sperate measurement and we will agree we are good. We made way too many assumptions and I didnt watch over this shoulder or double check his numbers. We do know this, the carb is good and the ignition is good. We've been through them enough and the way the engine ran at throttle, this thing will be a beast when we get it completed this time. We will be taking our time, we are not rushing. This doesnt make sense to me....if the bearing oil feed is blocked or severely restricted then increased clearance at the restricted bearing should not create a measured low oil pressure reading. This seems especially so if the noise from the bearing is so slight that a youngster cant hear it. Your approach, however, does seem like a good one, ie, check and double check. I would strongly recommend using plastigauge to measure all bearing clearances. Best of luck, hope you and son work things out, Tom Mooney Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alini Posted March 28, 2016 Author Share Posted March 28, 2016 Engine is out, tore it down just to get a sense of whats up. Every crank bearing is shot, the journals are scored and there are scratches in the cylinder walls. I still need to remove the timing cover and cam. The cam lobes all look great, but I m pretty sure the bearing surfaces will be like the crank. Something went out and took the rest of it with it. We are still evaluating, but it looks like the carbon build up left behind by the poor hot tank job scored the bearings and that material just kept multiplying. Will know more once we get the cam out and I can chase all the oil galleys. The cranks internal oil passages are clear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Stoneberg Posted March 28, 2016 Share Posted March 28, 2016 Chris, I feel for you. I went through the same stuff myself.The first shop didn't clean well enough and it cost me another rebuild. Good luck with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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