Ttotired Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 The fun has begun I got energetic yesterday and decided it was time to pull the engine out and try and find whats knocking and wanting to get out, only thing is, with the 3 service manuals I have (bought the ones on CD), none of them say what the correct method is to remove the engine (or anything else from the looks of it) So, I was trying to see the bell housing bolts above the trans and couldnt, so, I took the trans rear cross member off, undid the 4 bolts bolting the torque tube to the torque ball (I have to have a look now, read somewhere last night there may be 5) trying to lower the back of the trans to look for bell bolts better and successfully lowered it an inch, great. The flange at the torque tube hasnt split yet (dont think I need it to yet now) I was going to pull the engine and trans out together, but now that I have undone lots of stuff that was in the way stopping me from seeing down the back of the engine, I see there are no top bell housing bolts, so I will pull the engine by itself, then pull the trans Any advice is very welcome The torque tube is leaking fine oil (not thick) from the flange near the diff, does that mean the trans is leaking oil into the tube? I really dont know much about the driveline in these things yet and the service manual (I have to say) is a bit of a disappointment Oh yeah, just for a little added fun, my car has been converted to right hand drive, so clearance down low on the right is minimal Mick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bhigdog Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 No rocket science here. Just remove everything that holds the engine in, is in the way, or attached to it and lift it out. Don't forget the engine to trans flex plate (mark it's position) and lots of people overlook the oil pressure line until its too late.............Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ttotired Posted October 23, 2015 Author Share Posted October 23, 2015 Thanks Bob Got it out Could have saved myself some time by not unbolting the engine mounts, they were broken and just fell off when I lifted the engine I had a bit of trouble with the gauge capillaries, the temp one was stuck, so once the engine was on its way out, I had to get the core plug out from the back of the head so I could lever the bulb out, so saved the gauge To get the oil capillary off, I had to unbolt the oil filter mount so I could get a spanner onto it (steering box in the way) There was really not a lot that could be left on, exhaust and intake manifolds, that was it, everything else had to come off to gain access to something or to give clearance for removal So now its out, will the trans release from the torque tube with the 4 bolts undone from the torque tube? Seems silly to me to have such great access to it now and to not take it out and at least clean it up Mick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bhigdog Posted October 24, 2015 Share Posted October 24, 2015 Good job. The trans should release from the tube. Be advised the drive shaft spline may have one blank "tooth" to insure it goes in one way only..........Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ttotired Posted October 24, 2015 Author Share Posted October 24, 2015 Thank you I am going to find the knock today, fingers crossed, its not a big disaster in there Mick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ttotired Posted October 25, 2015 Author Share Posted October 25, 2015 (edited) Found it Bad, but not as bad as it could be #1 piston lost 1/2 its skirt, it was sitting in the slime in the bottom of the sump I havnt pulled the rest of the pistons yet, but it looks like the crank didnt get hurt, even the bore looks ok, worn out a bit, but ok Its going to need new valves, water pump ect, but it will go again Looks like the big ends are still standard, but I havnt checked the piston size yet (might do that on one that all there ) Lots of sludge to scrape out, kind of surprised it could even suck oil up through it all, what a messMick Edited October 25, 2015 by Ttotired (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD1956 Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 Wow! that piston lot a lot of the skirt, both sides. in the way of education, what causes something like this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bhigdog Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 I've seen that in 2 of the 5 322's I've opened up............ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old-tank Posted October 26, 2015 Share Posted October 26, 2015 You got lucky. I drove one knocking like that for months until it really got loud, followed by steam out the exhaust and lockup. Found old pieces (and new) of piston skirt in the oil pan and a hole in the cylinder wall. This was in 1970 (po' boy driving a $50 55 Buick) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ttotired Posted October 26, 2015 Author Share Posted October 26, 2015 Not sure exactly what caused it, the fracture surfaces dont look that new, but the engine was locked and took a bit of effort (and killing of a starter) to get it to free up I was just assuming that as I was trying to free it up, that I was slowly crushing the piston and the locked part was the wrist pin being suck in the piston Thats a guess though, might see more when I finish stripping it There isnt a mark in the bore, but I havnt had a chance to see if there are wear marks showing the shadow of the break if someone still drove it for a while with a knock, kind of doubt it though Mick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bhigdog Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 Wow! that piston lot a lot of the skirt, both sides. in the way of education, what causes something like this? Improper design and/or material specs.................Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avgwarhawk Posted October 27, 2015 Share Posted October 27, 2015 Holy cow! That is really something.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ttotired Posted October 27, 2015 Author Share Posted October 27, 2015 So, you think this might have actually happened before I got the car? I still havnt gone any further yet, stupid work keeps getting in the way Nice little time bomb to thing about, isnt it? Mick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ttotired Posted November 1, 2015 Author Share Posted November 1, 2015 Block is almost stripped Havnt found anything more exciting with it yet Mick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ttotired Posted November 2, 2015 Author Share Posted November 2, 2015 I have a couple of questions for those in the know if I could pleaseFirstly, I am sure I read somewhere that the cam shaft was/is retained in the block by a circlip that you need to remove the core plug at the back of the block to access, I didnt have to do any of that, there is no grove or anything that looks like its missing?Its an auto and I read in the service manual that there are supposed to groves to indicate its an auto cam and they are thereDid I just confuse myself or could this be a wrong or aftermarket cam?If alls good (what I hope), what controls cam end float? Maybe, just the distributor gear?Second one involves a rebuild kitI have seen listed on ebay kits for the 364, but I noticed one place specifies a difference between the 40 series and the restI looked at the specifications for the engine and noticed that the compression ratio of the 40 is lower as is the horsepowerIs it ok to use the higher compression ratio/horsepower kits in mine?I assume that the difference is just the height of the piston crown and if its going to fit, then why not have more horsepower?I also noticed that there are 2 different sizes in the valves (stem length, I think it was) but I have forgotten whether that was for 59 and up engines or 40 series to the restAll advice is most welcome, especially any tips and tricksThe building will be a bit drawn out because once I get the machinist bore recommendations, it normally takes about 3 weeks from time of order to parts arrival hereAll the crank journals look excellent, so I wont have to do that, but the valves are shot due to rustMick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smartin Posted November 3, 2015 Share Posted November 3, 2015 See my responses in red: I have a couple of questions for those in the know if I could pleaseFirstly, I am sure I read somewhere that the cam shaft was/is retained in the block by a circlip that you need to remove the core plug at the back of the block to access, I didnt have to do any of that, there is no grove or anything that looks like its missing? Incorrect. There are no clips that hold the cam in.If alls good (what I hope), what controls cam end float? Maybe, just the distributor gear? The ramps of the cam lobes keep it from walking forward.Is it ok to use the higher compression ratio/horsepower kits in mine? That is fine.Mick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ttotired Posted November 3, 2015 Author Share Posted November 3, 2015 Thank you very much for that I hate getting stuff over just to find out it doesnt fit Mick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coupekid Posted November 3, 2015 Share Posted November 3, 2015 (edited) Ive noticed that 2bbl inlet manifold ports & their head ports on 364ci engines are slightly smaller on 40-50 series.... but i have seen some 40 series cars that came out with the 4 bbl carb from dealership have the larger inlet & head ports.. so it was up to the car buyer what option he would of wanted from the dealer ...the 250HP or the 300HP engine ...so make sure when you buy your rebuild engine kit if its for the 2bbl eng or 4bbl eng... cos that inlet gasket might be different to your current engine fit ...this will be the only gasket in the kit that isnt a fits all 364ci engine piece. Edited November 3, 2015 by johnnybuick (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ttotired Posted November 3, 2015 Author Share Posted November 3, 2015 It is a 2 barrel, but how much different would the ports be? Mick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smartin Posted November 3, 2015 Share Posted November 3, 2015 I've never bought any intake gaskets that made me specify 2 vs 4 barrel manifold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dei Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 I swapped out my Special engine for a Limited one (with high mileage) and put the 2 barrel intake and carb on that motor. Have ran it for years with no issues. I did not check the gasket for size but give me some time and I can measure the four barrel intake ports for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ttotired Posted November 4, 2015 Author Share Posted November 4, 2015 I think the kit (being for the higher output engines) will have the 4 barrel carb gasket Does anyone make an alloy intake for the 364 that isnt a 3 deuce or are they made from unobtainium? The other thing is the engine and gearbox mounts are broken, so I have to find those, but I am hesitant about used ones Might have to google vulcanizing and see if I can re make mine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coupekid Posted November 5, 2015 Share Posted November 5, 2015 if your going to stay with 2 barrel carb you will need to buy a original factory manifold ....you cant buy any remanufactured that ive seen ...on ebay when available ...you can find the alloy offenhauser single 4 barrel or twin 4 barrel manifold for sale ..ive seen even a blower manifold that suits ..but again with these offy manifolds you will need to check inlet size on your heads ..you can refer to your factory manuals for the spec sizes on inlet differences ..& you will also find some sellers on ebay that do sell inlet gaskets specify either 40-50 series or 60-70 series ...not may people & pro`s realise there is a difference !! when i received my complete engine gasket kit i did receive the larger inlet gaskets so i had to buy the 40 series inlet gaskets seperately ! but you might buy a different type kit..depends. Anyways,, for your engine mounts & trans mounts & other rare parts check out .... Fusick.com or classicbuicks.com ...oh & look under your carby or on your inlet manifold you might have the heat choke exhaust channel ...some 2 barrel carbys need the correct gasket to suit .... there are variations ie WGD or WCD ra ra ra etc etc !! some 2 BBL carbys even have different shaped exhaust channels... ive also noticed that you can have a 2 barrel inlet manifold with exhaust channel & some inlet manifolds that dont have the channel yet the carby has the heat channel ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ttotired Posted November 5, 2015 Author Share Posted November 5, 2015 I am not planning on staying with the 2 barrel, although, I might save the inlet manifold chase to later I will look at both vendors, thank you I spent the whole day cleaning the engine bay yesterday (waiting for house air con installers to turn up, which they didnt) So many nooks and crannies for dirt to hide in I am waiting for the week end to put the engine parts in a rotary washer to take the bulk of the dirt ect off, then I will be getting into getting it done Mick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ttotired Posted November 12, 2015 Author Share Posted November 12, 2015 Little update, nothing much with the engine, but I got the trans out Had a hard time getting it to release from the torque tube because this had all been out years ago when the car was converted to rhd and they stuck it back together with silicone The rear will have to come out as well because the torque tube is leaking near the diff, so I will have to get seal kits for that as well Mick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ttotired Posted November 29, 2015 Author Share Posted November 29, 2015 Cleaned the heads up over the weekend, I DE-greased them, then gave them a pickling in a caustic soda bath (one still is) to clean the carbon and paint ect off Mick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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