How much to rebuild '47 S-11 engine?

[Guest Bingster]

I have a 1947 Custom S-11 that I'd like to have the engine rebuilt. I'd like some ideas on how much this would cost and advice on where to have it done. I live in Iowa. Thanks.

[Rusty_OToole]

It is impossible to give a real accurate answer without knowing exactly what the engine needs. But worst case would be about $3000. Best case under $1000 without taking the engine out if it only needs a ring and valve job.

The engines are pretty simple and easy to work on.

Quote from another board I frequent. The car was a 1941 Canadian Dodge with the Chrysler based engine which is a little more expensive for parts than the US Dodge. So it should be comparable to your DeSoto. The work was done last year.

"The engine work came to about $3000 all told -- but I had it done by a specialty shop, at $70 an hour labor, and they tore it completely down before putting it back together. It came to about $500 for removal and reinstallation of the engine.

It was pricey -- more than I expected, really -- but I have no question that the engine will outlive me. And you saw what it looked like before it went in -- broken and cracked pistons, shattered rings, burning a quart of oil every day, etc. They did a real nice job."

This was for a COMPLETE rebuild, scored cylinders bored, new pistons, crankshaft ground, new valves etc.

As the engine was rebuilt in Maine I doubt you want to send yours to the same mechanic.

Vintage Power Wagons has some good deals on parts, Power Wagons use the same engine as your car.

Edited June 13, 2014 by Rusty_OToole (see edit history)

[60FlatTop]

For a restoration, plan on $1,000 per hole for common stuff. If your receipts don't total that or more at the end of the job something got left out.

Bernie

[Rusty_OToole]

Seriously? $6000 to rebuild a flathead six DeSoto engine that is running now?

Parts prices from Vintage Power Wagons

Set of 6 heavy duty pistons, $165 NOS surplus, $75

Set of rod bearings $169 NOS surplus $125

Crankshaft bearings $218 NOS surplus $125

Valves $16.50 each Valve guides $60 set of 12

Timing chain $89

Complete gasket set $125

http://www.vintagepowerwagons.com/pdf/parts/01engine.pdf

As to where to get the work done, ask around your local old car guys for the best auto machine shop and mechanic to work on the old cars.

Edited June 13, 2014 by Rusty_OToole (see edit history)

[auburnseeker]

I've heard it's 4000 to rebuild a model a 4 banger now a days. A friend had his 54 Chevy 6 rebuilt including in and out of the car and it was over 5,000. They didn't put all new parts in, just what was needed.

Don't forget on your list, Valve springs, If they turn the crank that's more, New cam shaft and bearings if needed maybe even new lifters if they are worn. Definitely a new oil pump if you are having everything else rebuilt. Also figure on a new water pump and might as well get a fuel pump, rebuild the generator maybe starter. (how far do you want to go?) New motor mounts, Might as well flush the radiator and clean and paint that if it's out. New heater shutoff valve. Of course new hoses, clamps and belt as well. Plugs, wires as well as the rest of the tune up.

I can see how you could blow right by 4,000 on a 6. Especially if you get into detailing it while you are at it. I think I spent 1,000 or more doing my 6 in my 48 Plymouth and all I did was a valve job and did all the work myself. I cut the valves and seats as well so no machine shop bills at all just parts. That's all on the D24 engine that's in it. (yeah someone replaced it at some time. Should be a P15.)

I think Desoto used a Chrysler engine. Did the power wagon use a dodge or Chrysler power plant?

Edited June 13, 2014 by auburnseeker (see edit history)

[Rusty_OToole]

Power Wagon used Dodge engines, but some of them were identical to Chrysler and DeSoto engines. Specifically the 237, 251 and 265. I don't know if the PW used the 237 or 265 but they built lots of them in the fifties and sixties with the 251. It was the standard MIL spec engine (think of the ambulances in MASH).

[Rusty_OToole]

I would like to know what the oil pressure is like, and the compression. Then I would take the head off and inspect the cylinders and valves. If the cylinders and pistons were good, and the oil pressure was good, I might do a ring and valve job and let it go at that. Depending how many miles on the engine.

How do you spend $1000 for parts for a valve job on a Plymouth six?

[60FlatTop]

Reading the forum gives a lot of examples of not spending enough money or handing a job over to an unqualified service provider.

Most of the parts on a car wear out and fail from age at the same rate.

Would someone rebuild and engine and not refurbish the radiator, hoses, and temperature gauge? Would anyone put the same old clutch and pressure plate on an glazed or scored flywheel? Will the old automatic transmission be left in place if it has one?

The carburetor should be rebuilt and set up. The distributor should be serviced professionally.

Engine, transmission, and, if you have them, radiator mounts should be replaced. A major driveshaft service and balance should be done.

The electrical wiring in the engine compartment should be serviced and repaired, as well as the starter, generator, and regulator. Detailing of the readily accessible body and chassis components should be done. There will be a gasket between the intake and exhaust manifolds on many inline engines. It takes patience to install that without breaking a casting or a snapping bolt.

The fuel system needs a thorough service.

The car has many interdependent components and subsystems. When a weak link is left unattended, it will fail, and possibly take the fresh work with it.

My 6 cylinder Buick cost about $5500 to do and the car needs about $3,000 more general detailing to meet mine personal expectations. In 2011 I spent about $7,000 under my '60 Buick when the main problem was a U-joint inside the torque tube. At 50 years of age that much stuff was due.

I got into a 1956 T-Bird rebuild in the mid 1990's that totaled about $12,000 when we were done with all the ancillaries. I balanced a flat bottomed ice cream cone on the air cleaner of that Y block at a cruise night one time.

Just take a car apart; there are at least 300 $100 jobs involved in putting it back together. Old cars are an expensive hobby.

Bernie

Edited June 14, 2014 by 60FlatTop (see edit history)

[CarlLaFong]

To add the cost of things like a driveshaft refurbishment, rebuilding of the starter, generator, etc. should not and never has been included in the cost of an engine rebuild. Why not include a paint job and new floor mats while you're at it. I have rebuild many, many engines without doing all of the things mentioned and have had a pretty good track record of not having things like wiring harnesses or body mount crap out. I think the original answer to how much should a rebuild cost for a flathead MoPar should be far less than 6 grand. You can't restore a car and call it an engine overhaul

[Rusty_OToole]

So you aren't talking about a valve job or even a motor rebuild but a complete mechanical restoration of the whole car. This may be valuable information but it is not what the questioner asked. Glad we got that cleared up.

[Rusty_OToole]

By the way, I know a little about how Ford built the Y blocks in the fifties and it doesn't surprise me that it took $12000 worth of work to get one right. Unlike Chrysler products which were right when they came from the factory.

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

I have a 1947 Custom S-11 that I'd like to have the engine rebuilt. I'd like some ideas on how much this would cost and advice on where to have it done. I live in Iowa. Thanks.

Well, you received all kinds of answers. Some are far out. Some closer. Rusty is probably pretty spot on, depending if you do the work or farm it out.

My experience. I rebuilt the Straight eight in my Buick five years ago. I did most of the work myself. Bored, crank turned, engine boiled out, head with new valves, new cam bearings. Every thing it needed. Machine shop work was just over $1500.00. Parts $1600.00. Grand total= $3100.00. I did pay $400.00 to have the engine pulled and disassembled, as I was still driving over the road.

If you were near me, and all major parts on your engine are good, I believe I could do it for $3000.00 and make wages. If mileage is not excessive, probably just needs rings and bearings. I did that "back in the day" in an eight hour shift.

You will probably not drive the car 20,000 miles the rest of your life. Don't let others cause you to get carried away.

Ben

[Guest Tusler 49 New Yorker]

I am having my engine refreshed right now. I have a 323.5 straight 8. The bearings,rings,freeze plugs and full gasket set including rear mainseal cost me $1000

I found a guy with a shop close to where I live that is Ridge reaming and Honing the cylinders, and installing the the parts for $500 with the stipulation that he works on it when he has time. Since I have more time than money this agreement works for me.

It was running fine when I put it in the shop. It had a very slight miss but since it sat in storage since 1970 and has 107676 miles on it I figured it be good to do.

When he took the pistons out he found Pistons #1,2,3 had broken rings. The crank is ok, cam and valves are ok so I will get by this time.

Edited June 14, 2014 by Tusler 49 New Yorker (see edit history)

[Rusty_OToole]

First Born has some good information. But I would like to point out, that a Buick is a much more complicated and expensive engine than a DeSoto.

It has 33% more cylinders for a start, plus the complicated OHV valve train. And Buick parts are harder to get and more expensive.

In your case you could estimate the parts from Vintage Power Wagons. You local NAPA store can supply most parts too. No need to pay top dollar at Egge Machine or Kanter.

For machine work figure $1000 to $1500 if the engine needs everything (cylinders trued, crankshaft ground, rods resized, valves and seats refaced, etc)

It might be best to ask around and see if you can find a good mechanic or machine shop in your area. As others have pointed out, it is better and cheaper to hire the best in the first place. You will get a better job and you will save money and time.

You should also figure on a rebuilt carburetor and distributor. The clutch may be OK, they see very little wear thanks to the Fluid Drive system. Motor mounts are probably shot. You will probably want to clean the rad, and rad hoses and belts are a good idea.

You will have to use your own judgement as to what parts need to be replaced, or which have been replaced recently.

[Restorer32]

There is a big difference between "rebuilt" and "repaired".

[Guest]

Bernie (#3) is very close with the $1,000.00 per hole. This is of course for a rebuild or restoration which gives you virtually new engine. I just finished my Pontiac engine and this is so close I wondered if he was looking over my shoulder.

For years I worked in a GM parts department and could never understand the people that would put rings and bearings in an engine but not rebuild the starter and other accessories. Many of them were back in a few weeks to get the starters and generators done.

We did a tune up on an Oldsmobile in 1962 when it was five years old. The tune up cost nearly three hundred dollars. A fantastic charge for someone who was thinking of $19.00 tune-up. Our shop foreman said a tune up includes whatever is required to make the engine run properly. In this case it was rings and a valve grind as well as plugs, points and condenser. It is funny how a phrase like "tune-up" comes to mean something that bears no reality to the real job needed.

[Rusty_OToole]

Tinindian can you buy NOS pistons for your Pontiac for $75 a set, bearings for $125 etc? Are most parts available from your local NAPA store? I don't doubt your word for a minute and I don't doubt you spent $6000. But the original question was about a 47 DeSoto that is running and driving right now, and does not have 300,000 miles on it.

[CarlLaFong]

I think this is turning into a battle of semantics. A "tune up" will never require the engine to be opened up. The five year old Olds got a top end overhaul. The idea that once the engine is rebuilt, all of the ancillary items will soon begin to fail is urban myth or coincidence.

The last vintage engine that I did was for my Model "T". I had it hot tanked, bored, new pistons and rings, new babbit, reground crank, hardened seats, Chevy valves, adjustable tappets, new cam bearings, outside oiler and a few things I may have forgotten. It did not cost a grand per hole. Not even close. I bravely chose not to rebuild the generator, starter, coils, timer or to replace the rear view mirror. All were still functioning just fine when I sold the car.

[auburnseeker]

It also makes a big difference if the car is a running, driving car that has been used regularly and needs a rebuild because it burns oil or just doesn't have the power it should. With a barn fresh non running car that has sat 20-40 years everything usually needs to be done to make it run properly. (that was the case with my Plymouth and more so my 36 Chrysler which I spent over 2000 on motor parts for.

rebuilding an engine in a car that runs (sort of) or maybe even yard drives can be a whole lot different than a car you regularly drive that needs a little work to freshen it up. When you are all done don't you also want the engine to look like it has been rebuilt? Fresh Hardware and finishes? (I surprise almost everyone when I open the hood on my Plymouth) Start blasting and painting all those external components or better yet just hand them to the powder coater and see what your bill looks like.

I would much rather have people estimate a little high than say it's a 2000 job and hand you a bill in the end for 4000 or more.