72caddy Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 Was just installing the battery today after a very long hibernation and was going by the book. I hooked up my 1919 as positive ground, turn the key and pushed the starter button. A strange sound from the GA and a little trace of smoke. Of course at that moment I remembered that this car always ran as negative ground since I have owned it (no issues).Reversed the battery to negative ground and tried the same startup procedure but the GA won't move. I can turn the engine by the crank handle and the brushes seem to be in contact with the commutator.I have 12 volts at the starter switch. 12 volts at the GA positive post when the starter button is pushed. Is it 'cooked' or is ther something else I can try? Thanks in advance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
platt-deutsch Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 Polarity is not a problem if you have the original starter box. If it is solid state conversion starter box then polarity needs to be right. With a original starter box it will work either neg or pos ground. The ampmeter will read backwards. There must be a bad connection inside the GA if you have 12 volts on the GA terminal. I doubt if it is fried.. I believe Pos Ground is correct on the 19. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
72caddy Posted February 17, 2014 Author Share Posted February 17, 2014 Thanks for the quick reply. It is the original starter box. Any advice on where to start on the bad connection inside the GA unit? I have a couple of older starter generators I can dissect before I open this one up. The older ones have broken front castings so I not worried about damaging them. Any books or manuals I can get? Or should I call one of the people that rebuild them? Anyone have recommendations? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
platt-deutsch Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 I would look at the Brass bolt terminals. The heavy copper straps that are under them inside the GA may be loose. The insulation bushing probably shrunk a bit with age and loosened. Check for broken brush lead wires too.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAH Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 Several things I note. First the '19 would have a Model G NOT a GA and would be neg ground (up to '23). Second if you actually have an original switch assy. not one modified with solid state, your starter could care less which polarity and will polarize the fields at the first press of the switch. The only problem will be reverse indication on the ammeter as was stated elsewhere. You say when pressing the switch a "Funny sound and puff of smoke". From where was that smoke? Was it from the starter or from the starter switch? If the former you may have deteriorated insulation on brush wiring that shorted and possibly now is disconnected. If from the switch you likely now have a fried cutout coil that will require replacing the unit. In any case the connection of the battery in whatever polarity will not have caused the existing problem. I dare say Father time was the guilty party. Good Luck. Let us all know what you find. Rodger "Dodger" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
72caddy Posted February 19, 2014 Author Share Posted February 19, 2014 RAH, yes i believe father time has caught up to me. Yes, it is a model G don't know by I stated GA. The little smoke came from the rear of the starter generator. No much but enough to go "uh-oh". It was slow turning previously and maybe it is time to repair this one. Several I have PM-ed have given advice which is much appreciated. What is the best way to remove this item? Does the chain need to be split or will the unit slip out? Obviously the carb needs to come out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
platt-deutsch Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 Open the chain cover. Turn engine over until the repair link comes into view. Tie baling wire to each side so you don't loose the end of the chain down into the engine. Remove the Link and don't drop the link plate into the engine. Loosen the adjustable wedges that hold the starter body solid and remove strap. Loosen the big nut in the chain housing that holds the unit in place. It should slide out of the hole now. You should remove the carburetor also. When reinstalling the chain tension should be set. There is a eccentric in the big hole that can be rotated to adjust tension if needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
72caddy Posted February 24, 2014 Author Share Posted February 24, 2014 Many thanks platt-duetech. This went pretty much as described, but I did almost loose the link plate! I took photos of each step and may make a PDF so others can see the process.i was surprise that the end gear, although keyed, will basically fall off the end of the shaft in the front of the engine if you are not careful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
platt-deutsch Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 Odd.. My 25 has a threaded end on the shaft and a nut to hold the sprocket in place. Glad it came out ok. When you get it in and adjusted be sure to adjust the wedges so they are contacting the top and bottom of the unit and then put the strap on and tighten it. Hope you find the problem in the unit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1930 Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 Many thanks platt-duetech. This went pretty much as described, but I did almost loose the link plate! I took photos of each step and may make a PDF so others can see the process.i was surprise that the end gear, although keyed, will basically fall off the end of the shaft in the front of the engine if you are not careful.I would be very interested in seeing this if you can find the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
72caddy Posted February 25, 2014 Author Share Posted February 25, 2014 (edited) OK. Here you go. First picture is of the end gear that came off in my hand. Luckily I had kept the Starter/Generator level and the key was on top of the shaft - otherwise it could have fallen into the front of the engine! Second attachment is the write-up in PDF.StarterGenerator.pdf Edited February 25, 2014 by 72caddy (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeC5 Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 Excellent write up.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Lawson Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 Great set of instructions Looking at the end of the starter shaft where the gear fits there looks to be a thread to take a retaining nut to hold the gear on the shaft The nut is not playing hide and seek somewhere down in the pan is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
72caddy Posted February 25, 2014 Author Share Posted February 25, 2014 Good catch. I was so relieved and had so many other things to do I really didn't look that closely at the end of the shaft. If it is down there it will be there a while. I just dropped the pan late last summer and don't plan on doing that again for year or so...Next I am going to order some brushes and see if that fixes it. Probably do another write if I am successful. Be patient with me...full time job...oldest going off to college...youngest get his license in a few months....busy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Lawson Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 Hey mate there is nothing wrong with being a loving and caring parent I suppose that if the nut has come off since you last dropped the pan and it is sitting in the bottom of the engine and is not causing any problems I guess that is OK I would put another nut on to hold the gear when you re assemble though It would be a real bugger to loose a key down there too Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeC5 Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 It might be possible to retrieve with one of those telescoping dealies with a magnet on the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
platt-deutsch Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 There is also a lock washer under the nut! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeC5 Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 I'm tearing down my SG and wanted to replace the bearings and while getting that front nut removed was no problem, I can't budge the gear using a 3 jaw gear puller. There's no rust... what's up with this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
platt-deutsch Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 When you have pretty good tension on the gear puller try hitting the gear puller bolt a smart lick with a hammer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeC5 Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 Thanks, will give it a try. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeC5 Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 (edited) No luck with the hammer. I smacked it good too. I'm afraid to heat the gear for fear of conducting heat back to armature. I guess I'll have to rig something up for the hydraulic press... Edited February 4, 2016 by MikeC5 (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinneyhill Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 A three jaw puller deforms the pulley and makes it harder to get off. Can you try a bearing puller? It will pull from behind and not deform the pulley. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeC5 Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 I used a bearing separator plate in the press. It worked but I ended up breaking the cast snout (that front bearing mounts in)... I'm hoping it won't be too difficult to source another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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