Is there anyway to be sure on a 1964 Buick Skylark 2dr. has the original engine and tranny?

[Guest Mouse]

I'm new at this and have waited 15yrs. to find the right car to invest in. I'm looking at a 1964 Skylark 2dr. that is "suppose" to be original. The VIN# match a Skylark V8. The # on manifold match a 4BBl intake. But lifted the hood and its painted ORANGE, The whole engine, intake, block, valve covers ect. First question, is there ANY way to know if that engine was in that car originally, I'm finding documentation on Buicks in that year are not good. Is there an engine production code anywhere, or anyway to know? Looking at the car in the cold stinks. Does anyone have suggestions as to problems with the engine to look for? How much approx. does it cost to sandblast that retarded orange off, if it turns out to be the original engine? I don't want to buy it if I can't prove its original to start with Any info would be greatly appreciated.

[BUICK RACER]

Hey Mouse, welcome, some pictures might help too! Go to Team Buick Forum

I think most of the number information you will find there, then if you have more questions let us know!

[Guest Mouse]

Thank You for that, I have to get over there and get the code off the block, unless thats the only block that manifold would fit? Like I mentioned I'm finding it does match #1359122V is on the intake. We live in the rust belt and this car is above average in condition for this area and seems complete except the K in buick on the hood, floorboards need replaced and trunk, body seems solid. Hoping its a diamond in the rough and not a lump of coal Do know of any information to decode the ACC. off the cowl tag?

[ted sweet]

a car thats needs fllors isnt the car to invest in.

[Guest Mouse]

I've heard the floor boards are interchangeable with the Chevelle. The trunk liner is new, just not installed. They are asking 2000$ for the car. Around here unless you have 10,000 to start with, you will have some rust, the frame looks good. Doors shut like its new.

[Guest Mouse]

Would anyone know what the ACC. W-2YPR-5Z on the cowl tag means?

[ol' yeller]

Matching numbers cars mean a lot to Corvette guys but on a '64 Skylark, it isn't going to affect the value enough to worry about it. Correct year engine is more important than original. First make sure it is a 300 V8. Is it a 2 barrel or a 4 barrel? In '64 the Skylarks only had 2 versions of the V8 ( and a V6) The V8s were both 300 CU. The 4 barrel version had high compression pistons along with the 4 barrel carb. Visual clues to the "64 300 is that it had a cast iron block along with aluminum heads and intake. They also had a water choke. There also is no flapper valve in the exhaust at the base of one of the exhaust manifolds. These features are unique to the '64 300. In '65 they went to a cast iron intake and heads along with a cast iron block. It is a very common swap to put a 4 barrel manifold on a 2 barrel engine so the only way to determine if you have the 4 barrel pistons is to look at them. On further thought, there is a hard to see code stamped on the block between the middle 2 cylinders on the right side that indicates a high compression engine. I can't remember what that code is off the top of my head. The transmission is a 2 speed automatic (if it is an automatic) with a switch pitch torque converter. There should be 2 switches, one on the side of the carb and another smaller one attached to the throttle linkage. It is NOT a powerglide.

Usually you could just clean the engine really well and paint over the orange but with the aluminum parts, you probably should remove the paint as they were not painted from the factory. The block should be painted silver and the intake and heads natural finish.

It has been a few years but I seem to remember that Buick stamped every engine with the car VIN on the front of the block right below where the head meets it. It would be behind the power steering pump if your car has power steering. If yours matches the car, then it is original.

If the floors are rotted, I'd also check the trunk floor and around the rear window very carefully. These cars are prone to leak at the rear window which when unnoticed rusts out the window, down the rear pillars and into the trunk. Eventually rusting out the trunk and the rear quarters. While there is sheet metal available for trunk floor, and floorboards, there is no sheet metal available for outer body skins like rear quarters. Good used is very hard to find and expensive if you can find it. Check the rear quarters down low for bondo.

If you do decide to do this, you cannot expect to make money ("invest") in a full restoration. You must do it as labor of love that gets you a car you have long desired. After it is done you will get a lot of satisfaction knowing you have rescued an old car. The ROI after expenses on these cars is not on the plus side, even if you do most of the work yourself.

PS welcome to these forums. Join the BCA. You'll get a ton of help.

Edited December 27, 2012 by ol' yeller (see edit history)

[Guest Mouse]

Thanks for the info. It would be a project over time that I'm looking for and probably got to caught up in the "original" part of this car. The rear quarters have crust on the bottom about 1" up and thought that a new piece could be welded on.? I did however notice what looks to be filler around the bottom of the back window so I'm thinking by what you also mentioned about that leaking to be the reason the trunk is gone So I guess I'm leaning away from this one. Bummed... missing my summer fun cars.

[JohnD1956]

Thanks for the info. It would be a project over time that I'm looking for... So I guess I'm leaning away from this one. Bummed... missing my summer fun cars.

Don't just walk away. The advice given here is excellent, but it spells opportunity in the right context. If you just want a fun driver car, then make the owner a low ball offer. You never know. And the beauty of a car like this is the experience you gain is priceless, as long as you do not throw a lot of $$$ at the issues.

PS: You see it on TV all the time. Buyers regularily offer 20% of the asking price as a start.

[ol' yeller]

I didn't mean to discourage you, I was just trying to inject some reality. It depends upon what level of skill you have as to how fixable things are. If you have body working skills and tools, you can fix and fabricate your way around most problems. Rust is pretty insidious. Once it takes hold, what you see is only about 20% of the damage. There was a replacement metal piece made for the lower rear window but from my experience, it is a booger to replace. You can fabricate patch panels for the lower quarters but you need to be able to match the curve of the quarter.

If you truly love this model, this car may be a great learning car to get to know the model and its intricacies. The advice above is good. Collector cars are not selling well right now and you may be able to snag this one cheap. A buddy and I once went to look at some parts cars a man was selling. After finding both cars ('65 4 door and a '64 coupe shell) were goners, we offered him $75 for both cars (he was asking $2,500 for both). He refused our offer but called a month later and agreed to our price as well as delivering them to us about 20 miles away. The thing is to not let yourself be carried away to what you want the car to be but to see it for what it is.

Edited December 27, 2012 by ol' yeller (see edit history)

[Guest Mouse]

I'm going to take a friend with me and take another closer look at things. What is a water choke? Just can't completely walk away yet, its got everything there and just needs some TLC.

[sean1997]

The string W-2YPR-5Z is a list of options.

Group 1

W = Tinted windshield

Group 2

Y = Two-Tone Paint

P = Back-up Lights

R = Rear seat speaker

Group 5

Z = Seat Belts/front shoulder belts

Does the car have the above options?

A list of Buick engine production codes can be found here:

How you tell the difference bet. a 401 or 425

This shows where to find the numbers on the engine:

Team Buick Forum

[D Yaros]

Would not this year Buick have a GM Protect-O-Plate? If it is present would it not provide engine/trans #'s that were installed at the factory?

[Guest Mouse]

Yes, the car has these options and Thank you. Does anyone know if a regular 4 BBL carb can be put on this manifold, meaning instead of the water choke? The guy told me that the carb. needed rebuilt and when cold we manually closed the choke to start it, it's obvious that the choke isn't working right and I'm wondering if someone didn't put a different carb/not water cooled, if that would be the problem or if it just does need rebuilt?

[ol' yeller]

There are other carbs out there, Edelbrock, Holley etc. that can be installed on the manifold with an electric choke. IMHO the best carburetor for the 300 is the original Rochester rebuilt by a reputable carb rebuilder like Daytona Auto in FL. That avoids all the ancillary problems trying to fit the tranny controls and linkage to a non standard carb. I also think it runs better with the original equipment. Make sure whoever you choose has or can get the parts for the water choke. They are one year only and it is hard to find parts for it.

An issue with the '64 300 is the corrosion that comes from contact between dissimilar metals like the cast iron block and the aluminum heads. Yes, there are gaskets but over 45+ years they breakdown and corrosion begins. There is also usually corrosion between the bottom of the carb and the intake as that gasket was unavailable for a time and people got creative. The all cast iron '65 300 is a much better engine design.

All 300's used a phoenelic (plastic) coating on the camshaft timing gear to reduce noise. At about 100K + miles it becomes brittle and breaks off the gear and jumps time. I always checked every 300 I owned and replaced the timing set if it appeared to have the original set. It is also a good time to replace the water pump as well. It won't destroy the engine if it jumps time but it will break down at the worst possible time for you.

[NTX5467]

Some GREAT advice and comments! I've seen some "saveable" cars over the years, but what we walk away from as "rust" in TX is not the "stick your hand through it" sort of thing others might call "rust". Be that as it may . . .

If you watch the weekend morning car programs (i.e., "Muscle Car") on cable (which can probably be accessed from www.PowerblockTV.com, I think that's correct), those guys have done some interesting sheet metal fabrication and make it look like anybody can do it. Replacing floor pan sections is not much different from replacing a quarter panel, IF you have the place to have the car disassembled (and left that way, securely) over time. Some of these things could be weekend projects, but having the car immobile for periods of time AND in a place (heated, hopefully) where you can close the doors and walk away can be a great plus.

What you might consider is seeing if there are any local community colleges which might have some basic welding classes or autobody/paint classes you could do at night. This way, you can further expand your knowledge and expertise in these areas. I've got a few friends that did this and were then able to successfully tackle OR to better evaluate possible repair shops to do some work for them.

When y'all go to look at the car, take a flash light to look into the hidden/shadowed areas to look for hidden issues. As you walk around the car, casually use the knuckle of your index finger to tap on the metal and listen for different sounds (like a "thud" when you "strike bondo"). Other than being somewhat informative, it might also be a little unnerving to the seller, that you might find something he might not know about. Also, when you shut the doors, look for deflection in the lock pillar. On some cars, a little deflection is normal, but if it looks a little much (with a similar un-solid sound), that might indicate something else. If you do find a "thud", a confirmation would be a small magnet to locate the magnitude of the bondo'd repair.

As for that engine paint . . . it just probably means that the engine was rebuilt at some point in time, at which time they repaiinted it with something "available" or which the owner might have wanted. It'll ALL come off in a hot vat or with some paint remover (even some of the old Berryman's B-12 carb cleaner). Most engine paints were simple enamel paint, rather than the acrylic enamel used for exterior finishes later on. The paint on the car should be the "GM Standard" acrylic lacquer, though. ONE thing though, you do NOT put aluminum parts (of any kind!) into a hot vat . . . they'll disappear and also "kill the vat" (which makes the vat owner very upset!).

I also concur with the carb issue, as to the correct OEM carb for the vehicle. There should be either a metal tag on the carb or a stamped number to identify it. With that "tag number", you can determine what the carb was originally designed/calibrated for (engine, trans, model year, etc.). Similarly, there is a number stamped on the bottom outer ring of the base of the distributor housing, for the same ID reasons. In many cases, these two numbers can also point to the originality of the engine for the particulav vehicle . . . as the distributor usually never left its original engine unless there was some sort of distributor failure . . . which was not terribly common on those AC-Delco distributors, other than long-term wear issues (bushings and such). In the outside chance the distributor was replaced by a "reman" unit, rather than a dealership GM Parts replacement, that line of investigation will go cold.

As for replacement carburetors, be aware that it's VERY easy to over-carburete a 300cid engine--period. For a stock engine of that size, anything over 500cfm is too much, which is why the orig carb is much more desireable, plus that it's calibrated and sized for the engine and its air flow needs (even with a dual exhaust). And, the base plate for the carb could well be designed for a "heat track" on the front side of the carb (in the manifold, which must be covered by the carb's base plate . . . which also requires a special base gasket "stack" to work correctly).

As for the "water choke", I suspect it might be similar to what Ford used on many of their carbs, where they ran a heater hose next to the integral-mounted thermostatic coil which operated the choke valve. OR, it could be that actual water was run into a housing on the side of the carb, to use that heat to operate the choke toward "open" as the engine warmed up. There might also be an internal piston to initially "assist" the choke to initially open a little bit as the car starts, similar to the external choke pull-offs in the middle 1960s and later. If that piston sticks, it can hamper correct choke action, too.

You might go to www.wildaboutcarsonline.com , do the free registration, and then get to the Brand Central area and you'll probably find some road tests for vehicles similar to the Skylark you're looking at. Then, in the "Factory Publications" section, you might find scans of original service manuals and such, which might further explain some things you might be wondering about. To see about possible values for the vehicle, you can probably find a copy of Old Cars Price Guide at some of the larger newsstands, or go into the "Classic" section of www.nadaguides.com for similar information.

A KEY thing is to look at the "project" with "all eyes OPEN". Make a list of places to look at or investigate on the vehicle (possibly another thing which might be unnerving to the seller). Consider the repair costs against potential #2 condition vehicles in the price guides, as a point of reference. Then realistically estimate how much of the work you might be able to do yourself. Some of the items you can refurbish rather than replace, and there might be some soft trim/upholstery you can get from repro vendors as Legendary Interiors, Auto Custom Carpet, or similar. But other things you'll have to either learn to do yourself or find somebody to reputably do for you. Unfortunately, I've seen some well-meaning and researched car projects end up being unfinished for various reasons. As this would be a long-term project, the need for a safe and secure INDOOR space to store and work on the car is imperative . . . either in you own garage or a leased/rented space of about 20' wide x 30' deep . . . which can rent in the neighborhood of about $500.00/month. ("Covered" in the driveway or the back yard is NOT an option . . . neighbors might think it's neat, but can soon tire of seeing it, not to mention possible municipal Code Enforcement issues -- just better to have it hidden away in a safe/secure place.)

NOT meaning to discourage you, but just wanted to mention some side issues so that your ownership/repair/restoration/reviving experiences are good and fun ones!

Please keep us posted on what you find!

Respectfully,

NTX5467

Edited December 28, 2012 by NTX5467 (see edit history)

[ol' yeller]

Group 5

Z = Seat Belts/front shoulder belts

I think you meant lap belts. Shoulder belts were not an option in 1964.