Question from a newbie about the older classic cars

[Guest mikelj]

I have been collecting and restoring '60s and '70s vintage muscle cars (except for my favorite little '56 T-bird), for many years. I have become very interested now in getting a true older classic car. I am looking at 1931 Cadillacs, especially the V12s 370-A. I saw one at a D'Elegance type event and really got hooked on the style and colors they had. I am asking you experts on such cars what they ride and drive like, compared to say my '56 T-Bird. I always drive my cars to meets or cruises or the like, can't stand to see them trailered and sitting in my garage. Also, how reliable and complicated are these cars? Thanks for any opinions.

[West Peterson]

They're a lot of fun to drive, but you have to get yourself in the right mindset as soon as you get behind the wheel. While the 1931 Cadillac's are relatively easy to drive, compared to your new(er) cars, it will feel like your driving a big truck, brakes, steering, etc. I, for one, LOVE driving them, and could never get enough of being behind that big steering wheel, super long hood with huge headlights out front. It's an experience that puts a grin on my face for the entire ride. With the right gearing, the Cadillac is also easily capable of keeping up with traffic, which is where you need to be careful, because the brakes and tires will not stop you as fast as you're used to.

[poci1957]

Others will weigh in but I would suggest the following opinions to start:

Like TBirds, by modern standards they look better than they drive, BUT they do not drive poorly as some would say (not West, he certainly knows)

Compared to a Model A or other low priced car they are complex, but their components were designed for quality so if you learn about them they are quite reliable. The biggest problem for someone accustomed to popular postwar cars is that parts cannot routinely be ordered from a catalog and you will not have a neighbor buddy that knows how to help work on your 1930s Cadillac. Nor will your neighbor be all that impressed with your Cadillac since he has not seen one on the Speed Channel so it must not be significant (yes, tongue firmly in cheek). BUT if you would like to have a real premium car that is not seen at every cruise night then get into Classics (capital C), join the CCCA and carry on the tradition of a more genteel era of motoring. Just my opinion from someone else who loves the Classics but owns postwar, Todd C

[Steve_Mack_CT]

We have at least two Classic Caddy owners from the forum - Matt and Daytona (whose car I am famillair with - a nice V-8 Club) who will likely pipe in about those in particular.

Having had a few prewar cars I will say that it is indeed a great experience, and very different from a 50s car as different as they are from a modern car. You really need to try it, I love the fact they take a little effort and know how to drive, but for a nice compromise consider that an early 30s car will also be radically different from a late 30s car, tremendous advances in that decade. You may consider a later 30s car if extended touring vs. the occasional Sunday ride for an hour or so is a goal. The early car will handle it, but it is a personal preference thing. We are between prewar cars right now, but when someone says "old car" to me, that is what constitutes an "old car"...

[TexRiv_63]

Welcome to the forum! I owned a 1932 Cadillac 370B for a few years. While my car was never fully sorted out, I was always impressed at how well it drove for its age. When running correctly the engine is amazingly smooth and moves the very heavy car easily, the synchronized gearbox shifts smoothly, and the vacuum-assisted mechanical brakes feel quite modern. I had a 1928 Pierce Arrow at the same time and it was amazing how much more modern and civilized the Cadillac felt, the auto industry made great strides in four years. All this said, West's comparison to driving a truck is right on, these Cads are enormous and very heavy, but handling something like that is very satisfying.

Now the other side of the coin. These are 80 year old vehicles and the V-12 versions are very rare and fairly complex. If you really want to use one as a driver you either need to buy one that has been mechanically restored or be prepared to spend a lot of money having it done. As mentioned, parts are very hard to find and ridiculously costly when found. Very few people today are actively collecting and working on these cars compared to newer iron so finding shops with experience is difficult. You will need deep pockets to buy and maintain one of these as a driver, that is what I wanted to do with my 32 but in the end could not afford to keep it up and wound up selling. I hope you can pull it off and wish you luck!

[motoringicons]

I'll second what everyone else is saying, the big Full Classics are really fun driving machines-I have driven thousands of miles in them. They are certainly different, but that is what makes them fun. Sometimes they get a bad reputation as being " truck like" and difficult to drive and steer but that is usually the result of a particular person's experience with a particular car that has not been well sorted out or has been incorrectly sorted out or is just totally wore out. A well sorted car can really surprise you regarding driving and handling.

[West Peterson]

My bad, I started the "truck like" term here. I agree with you, as I have also driven many thousands of miles behind the wheel of prewar cars (from late '20s to 1940s). I only used the term truck-like as a comparison to a modern car. Perhaps I shouldn't have. However, when a "newbie" gets into Classic for the first time, whether it's sorted or not, he'll immediately feel the "heavyness" of it.

The main point is that you have to remember what you're driving, and accept its "shortcomings." I remember sending my sister-in-law out with my 1962 Porsche. She came back and told me my brakes were in serious need of "fixing". I immediately took it for a drive and they were working perfectly fine.

Edited August 10, 2012 by West Peterson (see edit history)

[Steve_Mack_CT]

Actually, when discussing these with someone with a new interest a frame of reference for many of the longer wheelbase cars I use is "like a longbed pickup" - true from a cornering/handling/parking perspective. I was always surprised at how easy my Model A was to manouver in the driveway than the bigger stuff. Of course, at 12' or so, they are very small cars despite the appearance of being larger. Not too much bigger, end to end than the wheelbase of many Classics!

[Matt Harwood]

There are two ways to look at it. Coming from what many call a "modern" car such as your T-Bird or later muscle cars, a big Classic is going to be astoundingly slow, clumsy, heavy, with awful brakes and spooky handling. However, if you embrace that this is how the cars drove at the time and get a feel for comparisons between the models, it changes your perspective considerably.

For example, my 1929 Cadillac is A LOT more polished, powerful, comfortable, and capable than a 1929 Ford. But it's no match for the 1941 Cadillac sitting next to it, which feels more like my 2005 Audi than it does the 1929. During the 1930s, technology improved by leaps and bounds, and I'd wager that the differences between my '29 and my '41 are more vast than the differences between my '41 and a new car today. Sure, computers changed everything, but in the 1930s, suspensions, brakes, engines, and other systems improved dramatically each year, making my '41 essentially a modern car in many respects.

Now, with that said, it's really hard for me to resist a sunny day and my '29. I put perhaps 2000-3000 miles per year on it touring and just driving it around. I often drive it to visit local clients, out to dinner, to visit friends, go to the grocery store, whatever, just as I would with any normal car. However, your driving style has to adapt, and hopefully the motorists around you will accommodate you, because even gunning it at full throttle, acceleration is leisurely. Brakes are not like modern brakes (often mechanical until the mid-30s), so you'll find yourself slowing down early for stops which is not like our modern cars, either. I just assume EVERY light is going to turn red before I get to it and drive accordingly, which surely irritates people in traffic, which is why old car tours are usually out in the middle of nowhere. Steering will be heavy at parking speeds (you absolutely cannot turn the wheel on the '29 unless it is rolling, I don't care if you have arms like Schwarzenegger), but on the road, I find it accurate enough and quite pleasant.

What I'm getting at is that it's all a mind set. I enjoy nothing more than driving my '29, and if you look at it from the perspective of enjoying the car for the way it was when it was new, then you'll find, like most of us have, that it's truly a pleasure. On the other hand, you get guys who think that any car can be made better with the addition of a Camaro sub-frame, a crate motor, an automatic transmission, and some radials, and, well, that kind of defeats the point. The cars as they were built are quite road-worthy (with an aftermarket overdrive, the '29 cruises happily at 55 MPH on the highway for hours on end, and the '41 will do 65 effortlessly), but you have to appreciate why they're unique and realize that they're different by design. I love the sound of the engine, the feel of the big tires rolling down the road, the monstrous momentum that it seems to build up as you accelerate, and, as West says, the view just can't be beat. I can't take my eyes off the naked lady out there defiantly standing up to the wind as we glide down the road.

So go in with the appropriate expectations, learn to drive the cars within their limits, and don't force them to be modern cars, and you'll surely find they're a true pleasure. Fully sorted, any Full Classic is a spectacular machine on the road and on the show field, but even a nice little Model A can be a wonderful introduction to the period and the driving characteristics of an old car without a big investment. And I will say that you can't truly experience a car on a test drive--it was weeks and hundreds of miles before I stopped driving the '29 like it was made of glass and learned its limits and preferences; even two otherwise identical cars will have quite different "personalities." Jumping into the hobby with something like a V12 Cadillac, while a spectacular, very drivable car, might be a bit of a culture shock for you coming out of a muscle car. Even bearing in mind that a 12-cyinder Classic is one of the fastest cars of the period, it will still be like molasses compared to what you're used to and there will be some cognitive dissonance.

I might suggest that you join the AACA and CCCA and attend some events. Ask for rides--people will be delighted to take you for a drive--and get a feel for what these cars are like from the owners and from the passenger's seat. Attend a tour and ride in a different car each day, which is what I did for years as a kid when we didn't have a Full Classic for Caravans. People will be happy to oblige and it will give you great insight into the way the cars are on the road. This is a big investment, and a wise one, but go in with your eyes open. As a dealer I've seen too many guys buy an old car with unrealistic expectations and be disappointed in a car operating as intended, simply because their basis of comparison was, say, a 1965 Mustang not a 1930s automobile. They are VASTLY different in every imaginable way.

Welcome to the hobby, be careful not to fall in love with every single car!

[West Peterson]

I might suggest that you join the AACA and CCCA and attend some events. Ask for rides--people will be delighted to take you for a drive--and get a feel for what these cars are like from the owners and from the passenger's seat. Attend a tour and ride in a different car each day, which is what I did for years as a kid when we didn't have a Full Classic for Caravans. People will be happy to oblige and it will give you great insight into the way the cars are on the road.

More often than not, if you're jumping from one car to another, and making friends, you WILL BE given the opportunity to drive those cars if you communicate that you're really interested in buying one and would love to experience what they're like to drive. Once you get to know someone on the tour, I don't think it is too bold to ask them for some seat time. I, for one, would welcome ANYONE to drive my car. I love to share it. In fact, two weeks ago, I loaned it to another club member (whom I don't know too well, but trusted him) who took it on a 1,000-mile tour through Iowa and Illinois.

[Guest]

All I can say is that you do the research first, then drive your intended car. One of my friends has a 1932 Auburn Twelve Phaeton. A beautiful car no mistake. I'm just a tiny shade under six feet, and to operate the clutch or brake puts my knees in my chest. Clearly these cars must have been designed for chauffeurs who were midgets and there is NO adjustment of the drivers seat! :

Here is a picture of this beauty;

http://cordhaven.com/acd/photos/sines/sines-1.jpg

D.

[Guest mikelj]

Thanks for all the great insights and perceptions you have all given me. Before I buy any car, I like to do my homework, and I find these discussion boards for cars to be the best way to start that from real owners. I do need to do some measuring first, like will one of these '31 Caddys (I'm looking at the two door convertible/coupe) fit in my garage, weight, height, etc. Including what helfen mentioned on driving room in the seat. I was quite amazed at how tight the '56 T-bird is. My wife is 5 feet and fits fine, she can even use the power seat adjustments. For me, just about 5'10", the seat has to be all the way back and all the way down and I am still a bit frog-legged under the big wheel. I really love cars, and these older ones would be a great challenge. I also do most all the mechanical and cosmetic work on my cars, as I live in rural New Mexico, I pretty much have to be self-sufficient, so I have a full shop, lifts, etc. I will join some organizations and visit with owners, we have a Classic club here or two, I have seen pre-war cars at the picnics we have annually for all car clubs. Thanks again to all.

[dan at larescorp]

Clearly these cars must have been designed for chauffeurs who were midgets and there is NO adjustment of the drivers seat!

LOL I know the feeling. I'm 6'3 and not very flexible.

[Steve_Mack_CT]

No substitute for seat time for sure with any car. With our '89 560SL, I drove a few and had my wife drive as well to ensure she liked it as we use this as more of a weekend toy than a car primarilly for shows and club tours. A lot, but not all, taller SL drivers complain about headroom with hardtop on and the fact the steering wheel on the big side, and it is not tilt/tele. Unusual, but the original design goes back to 1972, and MB did not offer tilt, power seats, or a power top in these cars throughout the long run. Also seat track is not that long, and I usually have the seat back all the way, I am around 5' 10". The car fits us both great but may not work for all.

Two cars I am interested in now (since getting "seat time" in "my" 560 SL has been a challenge lately.. ) are an MG "T" series (any) and a specific Morgan Cab I am checking into. I have never driven either, and hope to do so at least with the MG through an AACA region member. I am a bit perplexed on the Morgan though, as the one I am interested in is on the west coast. As excited as I am I am a bit too conservative to buy an expensive car I have not got a good feel for let alone seen in person, but I am putting some local feelers out to try one on for size...

Edited August 10, 2012 by Steve_Mack_CT
grammer (see edit history)

[edinmass]

Hello Mike, I have owned a lot of 1931 Cadillacs. I have also owned 1929 and 1932 Cadillacs. If you like, PM me your email address and I will send you my phone number and give you some insight into early 30's Caddys. Ed

[Guest mikelj]

Thanks so very much, PM sent.