1929 Series 65 won't start

[Narve N]

As I have more or less run out of ideas, any inputs/suggestions to the following would be highly appreciated:

My Ser 65 run well 11 years ago before a lenghty restoration (bodywork primarily, engine left as it was good..)

Now the car however fails to start, despite confirmed spark on all 6 plugs, with fresh fuel present into overhauled carb and timing is set with pin into #6. I also tried two carbs, three coils, two condensers, starting fluid, 12V hotwiring from my sturdy old diesel M-B. The only results are random coughs, mostly backfiring through carb and crankcase ventilation. Have not yet tried to see if several valves could be hanging or checked the compression (need to make an adapter for the old sparkplug thread).

Any further suggestions?

[Bill Harmatuk]

I would say your valves are stuck. This is just a random guess.

My Chrysler is like a Briggs and Stratton motor. All it needs is a spark and gas.

After 11 years of sitting, you might have other issues.

Dump some Marval Mystery oil or some diesel fuel in her and let it sit. If it were me, I would fill her up to the brim thru each of the spark plugs. What are you going to hurt??. Turn her over about twice a day, (with the plugs out), for a week and drain all the foreign petroleum products out of her. Then fill the crankcase with some cheap 30 wt and give her another try.

If she ever starts the heat will free things up. It won't be pretty if it starts... with the residuals from the witches brew.

Thats where I would start.

My 2 cents, and / or suggestion.

Bill H

[keiser31]

You might take the side covers off to see if the valves are moving.

[Rusty_OToole]

It is possible to time the spark to the piston and have it 180 degrees out. Turn the engine with the #1 spark plug out and wait for the *woosh* of air out the spark plug hole. This is the compression stroke. Check that the distributor rotor is pointing to #1.

If it is not that then probably stuck valves. Have you done a compression test?

This is too obvious but an engine will not start if the rings are dry. This can happen if an engine sits for a long time or due to cylinder wash down from too much gas.

The cure is to squirt a little oil in each cylinder from an oil can.

[Guest mrfixerit]

Try this ! Remove all spark plugs . Do a compression test on all cyl. / 2 nd put your finger in # 1 cyl / tap the starter slowly till you get compression stroke on # 1 cyl . Ck to make sure that the cyl is top dead center with a piece of wire. Bye moving the crank be hand . With a socket & breaker bar . Then check to see where the rotor is pointing to in the distributor cap. /\ To make an adapter for the old spark plug thread you could use a rubber plug from A/C copper Line . If you Know any one that repairs ( Home air conditioning ) You could get the rubber plug from them. ....... after all that .. it still will not start. ... Change the points & condenser. ...... I hope that helps you.

[Narve N]

Thank you guys for fresh ideas.

I will try to confirm the "not 180 deg out", then remove all plugs and churn to check by hand for compression, before taking off covers to see if any valves are "just sitting still". Luckily my 8-year old daughter has promised me to help and stamp on the starter button when needed.

Will also see if I can weld up a suitable adapter for proper compression check from an old spark plug and the already existing adapter for another plug thread.

Finds will be posted.

[Guest 1929model75]

I agree with the 180 out theory I did that once on a model 75.

[Narve N]

Today:

There is no woosh from cyl #1 at any point, however being a sidevalve I can spot the valves through the plug hole and more or less confirm that both valves are closed when piston #1 is on top and rotor pointing at #1 wire. The wire position also confirms with my photos of the engine last time it ran. So it is not 180 degrees out.

Squirting oil into cylinders grossly rised the compression and fouled the plugs numerous times. Took off inspection covers from valvegear, everything seemed to work well, no apparent valves hanging in upper position.

Then I discovered what could be described an intermittent fault (worst there is), apparently the breaker circuit sometimes shorts itself out. Took apart and cleaned then confirmed visually with spare points that nothing was missing and put back together. Then I again had spark, but only caughing and backfires from the engine.

Final observation: My daughter operated the starter with me behind the car. Apparently it is igniting on one cylinder and puffed like a steam engine, this is however not enough to get the others running.

Current theory: The overhauled carb (BB-1) is totally out of adjustment and very little if any gas reaches the cylinders. Anyone got suggestions for initial adjustment of a Carter BB-1?

[hwellens]

See attached for BB1. PM me with your email an I will send you rebuild instructions.

bb10001.PDF

[Narve N]

I have paid substantially for the overhaul of this carb and do not believe a repeat should be necessary - yet..

However your attachment mentions 1/4 to 1-1/4 turn out for idle adjustment and I will check that. Is there any other adjustments as I am noticing a lower screw too (on bowl), is this a mixture screw?

[Narve N]

Those who suggested 180 degrees out were right. It had passed through my mind initially and I did test it last week, but the aforementioned intermittent ignition fault fooled to me believe that turning the wires gave no result and I replaced them. In addition I have had a sort of a deja vu, as the mentioned reference picture actually displayed the last time I did it wrongly, as it was taken before I corrected it back in 2000.

Anyhow the car now has 1500 ft under its own power, and I am wiggling the next issue: The engine needs a healthy dose of choke to run at all even when warm, and responds very little to throttle - only to activation of the accelerator pump. Is this an indication of a mysterious vacuum leak, or might there be adjustments to be made on the carb - dirt in the jet maybe?

[keiser31]

Those who suggested 180 degrees out were right. It had passed through my mind initially and I did test it last week, but the aforementioned intermittent ignition fault fooled to me believe that turning the wires gave no result and I replaced them. In addition I have had a sort of a deja vu, as the mentioned reference picture actually displayed the last time I did it wrongly, as it was taken before I corrected it back in 2000.

Anyhow the car now has 1500 ft under its own power, and I am wiggling the next issue: The engine needs a healthy dose of choke to run at all even when warm, and responds very little to throttle - only to activation of the accelerator pump. Is this an indication of a mysterious vacuum leak, or might there be adjustments to be made on the carb - dirt in the jet maybe?

I had trouble with my 1931 Dodge using a BB1 carburetor. It stumbled and gas ran out constantly which led me to believe that it did that because of the difference in the hole in the manifold and the hole in the carburetor. The gas would go up and hit the "shelf" created by the two non-matching sizes. My DRT-08 carburetor has the same diameter hole as the manifold and voila...no more stumbling or fuel running out. I also could not get the BB1 to idle correctly.

[Guest rich schmidt]

I have a 1929 '65' and had the same problem----the only thing i didn't read to check was ----- the points ---there is a nut and small bolt that goes through the side wall of the metal distributor --- there must be a paper like spacer between the points and the inside wall so it will not short out its about one inch long and 1/16 thick --- and the coil wire connects to the outside--- the nut must tight . I also had my bb-1 rebuilt and would not start---so i turned off the key shot a small amount of starter fluid in carb turned the starter for two seconds shot it again did this four times ---then set the gas on steering wheel 1/2 way turned key then starter it started the bb-1 is about 2-1/2 tuns out good luck i finished my 4 door in 2011

[Narve N]

I do also have a Ball & Ball carb likely out of a Ser75, and a pair of Winfield updrafts. Anyone having experience with those as an alternate to the (31 Ply) BB-1?

[impacsys]

did you try starter fluid? my 26 won't start without it after sitting for a while.

[Narve N]

Update:

Tweaking the carb made the car run rather more satisfactory including without choke at all. I even hooked up a vacuum meter to see if I could fine tune it, but gained no variation in the vacuum by adjusting. However reducing the RPM without stalling made me aware about both ticking valves and another more alarming sound - a soft knocking. Should keep me busy for a while.

[Guest westwood]

I have similar problems with my 1929 65!! I decided to take my little lad out today in the car, mainly due to some sunny weather!! Unheard of in the UK!! I keep the car on a battery conditioner all the time, so i have full power to the starter. I had not run the car for 1 month.

I have had the carb fully reconditioned, and the choke adjusted, so it works properly. This morning, on full choke i had the car turning over for over 1 minute.. and still it did not start. Left it for a couple of mins, then did the same again. It started after 30-40 seconds. I have to shut of the choke straight away to let it idle. I know that if i run the car every day, it will now start within 2-3 seconds each time, even after a night in the cold outdoors.

Narve N: Are you leaving the car turning over long enough??

[Narve N]

Currently starting is not much of a problem for my car. I have added an inline electric pump to top up what disappears from the carb and vacuum tank (Autovac to you UK guys) before starting from long idle (days/weeks). This I believe saves me from long churning of the starter. Looks like that is the only way these days with E05/E10 vaporising fuel and worse to come.

Intend to take the car for a test drive tomorrow as weather is nice here in Norway too, however Mrs is rather reluctant to join.

[Narve N]

A steady flow of small steps for mankind has improved the drivability of this Series 65, best one yet was when I emptied the gas tank to seal off some small leaks from the pipework and found the fitting between tank and pipeline blocked by crude to 90%. Almost no need for the electric pump anymore, now the vacuum pump can keep up.

Currently most annoying is the engine unwillingness to pull the car uphill, it acts almost like a newer car with defect vacuum advance - however the Ser 65 was never fitted with a vacuum. Anyone got suggestions to what I should look into?