Guest bonno5id Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 Hello to all !! I am new to this site and the existence AACA. I am currently building a 1957 Belair my father purchased as a 24 year old. I have been building it against the "CCI Restoration and Judging guidelines". If I build it according to this document will it be the same as to what AACA will judge it against? If not how do I get a hold of the document that AACA will judge it against? Thanks for your time and help Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shop Rat Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 Hello and welcome to the AACA Discussion Forums. The standard that your vehicle will be judged by is how it could have come from the factory. That means that any color/color combination for the year, make and model it is will be acceptable. It does not have to be the color/colors that it was to start with. Any option that was available from the factory, whether it was installed at the factory or at the local dealership is acceptable. Dealer provided options that are not authorized by the factory will be deducted for as non-authentic and you don't want that.Here is the link for the 2012 Judging Guidelines that we use. Please take a moment and read through it and then feel free to ask questions to clarify any questions that you have. http://www.aaca.org/publications/manuals/judges/2012_Judges_Guidelines.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Restorer32 Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 CCI ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
61polara Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 Your are going after this the right way by finding out the guidelines you will be judged against. If you are doing a restoration to factory standards, following the CCI restoration manuals, you should have little problem in AACA judging. AACA only accepts factory documents or reproductions of them to document any item in question. Find an AACA region near you and join it. Become a judge for our National shows. You will make some great friends along the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bonno5id Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 so what do the judges use a reference guide to judge ? Are they using the CCI manual to judge the TRIFIVES ? Would the CCI be a document that could be used to dispute a judges deduction? Thanks for your time and help. Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Restorer32 Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 No and no. AACA uses it's own judging sheet. If you are questioned on a detail it will be your responsibility to have factory documentation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bonno5id Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 No and no. AACA uses it's own judging sheet. If you are questioned on a detail it will be your responsibility to have factory documentation.With that being said it sounds like "for me to know and your to find out" nana nana nana nana !!! Sounds counter productive to me. I would think the AACA would want to see correctly restored vehicles and have something published like the CCI to give us a chance to get it right the first time. The CCI book breaks the assembly manual down and guides you on how to finish the car.If I am understanding you correctly, in the AACA, the criteria is only available to the judges? Can I become a judge to obtain this information? Thanks for your time and help . Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shop Rat Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 (edited) It is not "for us to know and you to find out".Please read the judging guidelines. I posted the link to it above. We do not juge according to any other clubs rules. We do want for folks to correctly restore their vehicles.Documentation is the burden of the owner(s) and not the judging team. Our method is very straighforward. It is NOT a secret as to how we do this.If you need and do not have correct documentation it can probably be obtained from the AACA Library and Research Center. If you are an AACA member one of the benefits of membership is that each year you can get for free 1.5 hours of research. Copies of the documentation they find for you can be had at a nominal cost. Here is the link to the AACA Library and Research Center.http://www.aacalibrary.org/Go to an AACA National event and attend the judging school. Then take a CJE (Continuing Judges Education) class and learn how we do what we do and why. This is NOT a "secret handshake" club. Here is the link to the listings where National events will be.http://www.aaca.org/calendar/default.aspx Edited February 23, 2012 by Shop Rat Type-o & add more info. (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Restorer32 Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 The criteria is "as it could have come from the factory". AACA uses it's own judging sheet but if your car is indeed restored to the standards of a one make club it will more than likely win in AACA competition. Download the Judges Manual. The judging sheets are in it. It is unlikely that you would be questioned on authenticity with such a well documented car but if you are only factory documentation will be accepted without question. And yes you can become a judge. Try it, you'll like it I'm betting. Welcome to the club! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shop Rat Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 P.S. Just so you know, you will not be given the amount of any deductions, if there even are any, that are taken during one of our meets.If you do not receive the award you are going for (ie. you get a 2nd Junior and not a 1st Junior) you can send a letter to the VP of Class Judging to get a highlighted copy of the judging sheet to see where points were taken off. But it will not show how many points. You can then use that sheet to look at your vehicle and see what needs to be improved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poci1957 Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 Hi Jim, I guess it probably does sound a little counterintuitive compared to a club with a judging manual for a single model. I think this explanation may help:In AACA the judging may not be done by 1957 Chevy "experts" but probably by a group ready to judge any 1950s car with an eye to authentic appearance of the era. Judging starts at a perfect(ly correct) 400 points and points are deducted for flawed finishes or incorrect items as identified by the judges. If they do not notice anything incorrect in a given area then they do not deduct. They will not read the codes on your data plate or engine casting numbers, so those features (which are a big deal in marque clubs) do not disqualify or count against your car. BUT if you have a date correct distributor casting or something it does not really help your chances either. The judge may or may not know about T3 headlamps or LOF glass date codes, but they will deduct for halogen headlamps, aftermarket markings on the glass, and for radial tires, a Wal Mart battery, or any other part that does not look like it came from 1957.In other words, if you correctly restore your car to CCI standards with all matching numbers and dates it will be more than sufficient to do well in the AACA. Good luck, Todd C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J3Studio Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 Helpful discussion for someone who is thinking of getting a car judged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shop Rat Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 ..... The judge may or may not know about T3 headlamps ..... Point of interest: There is not a deduction for the lack of T3 headlights. 2012 Official Judging Guidelines. Section: Exteriors Page: 21 Item: 1414. Headlights should be of the period andmatching. Non-matching, but periodcorrect, headlights will receive a 1 pointdeduction per headlight. Specific brand(i.e. Guide T-3, Westinghouse, GE, etc.) isunimportant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poci1957 Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 OK, so here is a perfect example. 1957 Chevys had T3 headlights originally. They are reproduced and available, but this is not necessarily so of other 1957 cars. So....In AACA they will look at the 1957 car. The headlamps look new with no cracks or flaws, they match, they are not halogen or other obviously newer replacements, so the judge deducts no points and moves on to the next thing.In a Chevy club they see that, but will note if they are T3s, and if the T3 emblem has a frosted background or stripes, deducting accordingly. They may have turned them on, low and high beam, and seen if they work and are of correct and matching brightness. Only then are they judged correct or not. This is the difference in detail examined for most of the car. High standards of fit and appearance, but broader standards for parts established to cover cars not all documented by assembly manuals and judging guidebooks. Again, if you meet the more specific marque criteria for original cars you will generally be fine in AACA. Todd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Restorer32 Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 Showing my ignorance of Chebbies but what is CCI? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poci1957 Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 I believe CCI is Classic Chevy International, traditionally about 1955-57 Chevys but may have had a recent name change and expanded into other models. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest windjamer Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 JIM, welcome to AACA. Please I say again please listen to Shop Rat. She is one VARY well informed lady and will give you NOTHING but the best advice.AACA WANTS you to win the award you seek, the judging is fair and I know if you try it you will be one of us. It cost nothing to look, so come check us out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
61polara Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 (edited) With that being said it sounds like "for me to know and your to find out" nana nana nana nana !!! Sounds counter productive to me. I would think the AACA would want to see correctly restored vehicles and have something published like the CCI to give us a chance to get it right the first time. The CCI book breaks the assembly manual down and guides you on how to finish the car.If I am understanding you correctly, in the AACA, the criteria is only available to the judges? Can I become a judge to obtain this information? Thanks for your time and help . JimJim, don't give up on AACA quite yet. If you have looked at the judging manual you will see that it is very general. The AACA judging is based on the owner having researched the restoration and restored the car correctly based on his research. If your car is restored to TRIFive standards, then it should have no problem in AACA judging. The AACA judges will ask for documentation only in cases when something looks out of order. If you plan on showing the car in a national Chevy only show, then you need to restore to their standards and you will do well at an AACA show.As AACA accepts all vehicles manufactured from the beginning through 1987, we can not publish specific restoration guidelines on each and every car. That is up to the owner to research. Our judging guidelines are built around the idea that every owner drives on to the show field with a 400 point car restored correctly as it was built by the factory. The judges are looking for areas that they believe are not correct restoration. In areas of possible major deductions, the judge team captan will discuss the deduction with the owner and give an opportunity for the owner to provide documentation that the item in question is factory correct. After the show, you can write and request a copy of the judging form for your car. The point deduction will not be shown, but it will show you the areas where points were deducted. In most cases, you will know exactly what the points were deducted for on your car. You know the car better than any one else.I took the time to find out who CCI is and looked at the documentation material that they have available. They have many factory documents reproduced. If you follow those manuals you should be in good shape for judging. AACA accepts reproductions of factory manuals as documentation of any area questioned.And from a non-judging standpoint, always remember that your restored car is the trophy, not the thing you put on the shelf! Edited February 24, 2012 by 61polara (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bonno5id Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 Thanks guys for all the input on this subject. I feel a lot less ignorant on the matter.As stated and suggested here in this thread by members of this forum, I will continue to build according to the CCI guidelines and should be fine with the finished product. I would love to get involved with the AACA in the near future once my car is done. But, as I look at the calender, I see no events in the near future close to California. Do any of the local chapters hold any events? Thanks for your time and help. Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shop Rat Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 .....But, as I look at the calender, I see no events in the near future close to California. Do any of the local chapters hold any events? Thanks for your time and help. JimHere is the list of the Regions/Chapters in California. Hopefully you can find one near to where you are. Contact them and find out when their next meeting is and attend. You can find out from them what events their Region/Chapter puts on or attends. But please know, not all Regions/Chapters follow the AACA judging guidelines at local shows. Some do, some don't. But you very well may meet some experienced AACA judges and they will share their knowledge with you if you ask.CALIFORNIAAntelope Valley RegionPresident - John Knapp4737 West Ave. M-8Quartz Hill CA 93536Cabrillo RegionPresident - David Willoughby403 Ventana WayAptos CA 95003 California RegionPresident - Paul Bittner55 Paso Nogal CtPleasant Hill CA 94523-1700 Cam Twisters of Fresno RegionPresident - Fred Ede10580 E. TulareSanger CA 93657Fallbrook Vintage Car Club RegionPresident - Roy MoosaPO Box 2332Fallbrook CA 92088 Golden Gate RegionPresident - Sharon Sagar92 Ridge RdFairfax CA 94930-1921 Inland Empire/Palm Springs RegionPresident - Bill Rothenbuhler1436 Pine Valley RdBanning CA 92220-5454 Kern County RegionPresident - John Bakich10806 Enger StBakersfield CA 93312-3268 Mid-Valley Historical Auto ClubPresident - Sandy Saunders1807 Sierra WayMarysville CA 95901 Modesto Central Valley RegionPresident - Marge Howard424 Church StreetModesto CA 95357Mother Lode RegionPresident - Diantha PotterPO Box 323Columbia CA 95310-0323 Mount Konocti RegionPresident - Ray Perry10192 Del Monte WayKelseyville CA 95451 Orange County RegionPresident - Ray Chips55 Waterman Irvine CA 92602Rancho Tehama Yolla Bolly RegionPresident - Melvin McNeillPO Box 5327Corning CA 96021-5327 Redwood Empire RegionPresident - Patricia Dearmin5116 Oak Park WaySanta Rosa CA 95409-3740 Salinas Valley RegionPresident - Leslie Earnest1113 San Ysidro WaySalinas CA 93901 San Diego RegionPresident - Dr Susan Woods8370 Onalaska AveSan Diego CA 92123-2827 San Luis Obispo RegionPresident - John Osborne4240 Rancho RdTempleton CA 93465-9621 Santa Barbara RegionPresident - Dana Newquist605 Juan Crespi LnSanta Barbara CA 93108 Santa Clarita Valley RegionPresident - Tom Edgington27918 N Newbird DriveSaugus CA 91350-1937 Southern California RegionPresident - Robert Pritchard648 N Wilcox AveLos Angeles CA 90004 Southwestern Two-Wheelers RegionPresident - Harry McGill1261 Emory StImperial Beach CA 91932-3325 Sun 'n Sand RegionPresident - C BaltzarPO Box 1331Palm Desert CA 92261-1331Valle Del Sur RegionPresident - Russ Carr13400 Center AveSan Martin CA 95046 Valley Of The Flowers RegionPresident - John Giuffre1080 Craig DriveLompoc CA 93436 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R W Burgess Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 ............ I would love to get involved with the AACA in the near future once my car is done. But, as I look at the calender, I see no events in the near future close to California. Do any of the local chapters hold any events? Thanks for your time and help. JimWhat part of California do you live in? I get two newsletters each month from California Regions that are very active year round.Wayne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest NTSOS Posted June 26, 2012 Share Posted June 26, 2012 Hello and welcome to the AACA Discussion Forums. The standard that your vehicle will be judged by is how it could have come from the factory. That means that any color/color combination for the year, make and model it is will be acceptable. It does not have to be the color/colors that it was to start with. Any option that was available from the factory, whether it was installed at the factory or at the local dealership is acceptable. Dealer provided options that are not authorized by the factory will be deducted for as non-authentic and you don't want that.Here is the link for the 2012 Judging Guidelines that we use. Please take a moment and read through it and then feel free to ask questions to clarify any questions that you have. http://www.aaca.org/publications/manuals/judges/2012_Judges_Guidelines.pdfHi.....the .pdf link doesn't work for me!Thanks!John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCHinson Posted June 26, 2012 Share Posted June 26, 2012 The website was upgraded since the link was posted. Try this link for the Judging Guidelines current location:http://www.aaca.org/images/2012_Judges_Guidelines.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest NTSOS Posted June 26, 2012 Share Posted June 26, 2012 The website was upgraded since the link was posted. Try this link for the Judging Guidelines current location:http://www.aaca.org/images/2012_Judges_Guidelines.pdfHi Matthew,Ok.....thanks so much! John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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