CORRECT FUEL FOR MY 63 401 6.6 LT.

[Guest 1963 Riviera]

Hi,

Since owning my 63 Rivi I have used 95 octane unleaded with a lead additive.

The choices here in Australia are Unleaded with 10% ethanol, 95 octane and 98 octane. The State government has announced 95 octane will no longer be available in this state from July.

A friend recently told me that this engine being cast iron does not need a lead additive, is this correct ?

Will I notice any improvement to performance when I switch to 98 octane ?

What are your opinions on 10% ethanol ?

Thanks Gang.

Nick

[Guest carlbraun]

here in the Peoples Republik of Kalifornia we are maxed out at 91 octane at the pump...at least here in SD county. I have access to some VP race gas and use 3-4 gallons of 114 octane leaded with the crappy 91 octane and it seems to work well.

(Disclaimer) I use the leaded gas ONLY for testing and do not drive it on the street...that's illegal here in CA:rolleyes: It smells really good too.

If your fuel is truly 98 ROM/RON rated then you have no problems with the octane side of things. The lead is another story. I had to have major head work done on my 63 Riviera after years of running on no lead fuel and seeing the recession of the valves into the head due to the lack of hardened valve seats.

Have hardened valve seats installed in your heads or maybe buy a lead additive...lots of folks on the intenet selling it.

When it deciding what to do with "the gaz-o-line" the question you have to ask yourself is...'what would Mad Max do?'

[Guest Lasse]

Here in Finland the options are the same (as in Australia), but I would never put anything else than 98 with a lead additive into my Princess! Don´t listen to that friend of your´s, you need the lead.

[RivNut]

Buick used a very high nickle content in the iron for their engines. In effect this means you don't need to use lead additives, nor should you ever have hardened seats installed (at least in a nailhead.) Use whichever octane level allows you to set the timing correctly without any detonation.

Ed

[Jolly_John]

Thanks for your posting, Ed....you beat me to it on the high nickel content of the Buick head castings. I have put many thousands of miles on 1963-65 Rivs we have owned over the years, using unleaded gas....without any valve or valve seat problems.

The only additional suggestion I would have for Nick is to AVOID any gas with ethanol in it. The problems it causes in older fuel systems are well known here in the U.S. Plus, ethanated gas typically delivers fewer miles per gallon. It is great Nick has a couple of octane choices of gas without ethanol. I wish all of us could say the same here in the U.S. John

[Guest carlbraun]

the valve seats on my 63 Riviera had to be preplaced with hardened seats on one head and had to throw the other head into the trash bin due to excessive valve wear

[RivNut]

The previous owner of my '63 had to do a valve job on it. BUT, he was pulling a very large Airstream trailer with it. Apparently lugging the engine under load will cause valves to recess. At the same time he did the valve job, he also installed a 3.91 rear in order to keep the rpm's at a higher level when he was towing at highway speeds. Luckily, a valve job did the trick - along with a couple of new valves, and he didn't need to have inserts installed. The inserts themselves are not the problem, it's the lack of room there is to work with. More often than not, the machinist will be in the water jacket before he knows it. Then you're looking for another head.

Here's a website that shows where to find ethanol free gas. Luckily for me there's a station about 4 miles from me where the owner purchases ethanol free premium unleaded. I run it without any problems, and my hoses, fuel pump, and carburetor are still good to go.

http://pure-gas.org/

Edited January 25, 2012 by RivNut (see edit history)

[Jim Cannon]

Nick-

Do you know if your 98 octane is "RON", "MON", or what they use here in the USA, (R+M)/2 ?

I use the highest I can get which is 97 (R+M)/2. And I still have to set the timing back from the stock setting (12* BTDC) back to 6* BTDC to reduce the pinging.

Note these are only settings for 1963, not later.

[RivNut]

Jim,

From whom are you getting 97 octane gas? The highest unleaded premium around here is 93 octane.

Ed

[Bleach]

I'm curious too. I've never seen anything more than 93 octane at the pump in this country. In fact I've even seen 90 as the highest octane in some states.

[Guest 1963 Riviera]

HI ALL,

Seems i have started an interesting discussion..and thanks for your opinions.

Jim, searching the net I have learned our fuel is RON, which they say our 98 RON is equivalent to your 92 R+M/2.

If you have not worked it out yet I do not have a mechanical background. I come from the service industry but keen to learn, so could you explain the following. "And I still have to set the timing back from the stock setting (12* BTDC) back to 6* BTDC to reduce the pinging."..Does this also explain why I have a flat/dead spot when accelerating uphill due to a timing issue ?

Also the jury seems to be out about lead additive. I respect both opinion , so while I have a trunk full of additive that came with the car I might as well keep using it.

Thanks from Sydney

[J Chase]

Why not the hardened seats in a nailhead?:confused: That was recommended to me so

I don't have to worry about the gas I put in it. I have 64 425.

Thank Jim

[RivNut]

Log on to either the nailhead group @ Yahoo or check the nailhead forum on the V8Buick.com website. The engine gurus over there (Russ, Doc, Tom, et al) will tell you what I said earlier. 1) There's enough nickle content in the iron of the nailhead block so the valves won't recede. And 2) - what I didn't post - if a machinist is advising you to install hardened valve seats, "he's just padding his purse." If he does insist on installing the hardened seats, is he willing to purchase another head for you and do all the work on it for no extra charge when he gets into the water jacket of the original head?

If for some reason you've destroyed a head that a valve job won't fix, then look for another head.

[CheezeMan]

For fun, this is the statement in the owner guide of my '63:

The engine in your new Riviera is designed to require fuel having an octane rating of at least "99 Research Method" or "88 Motor Method".

(R + M)/2 = 93.5.

I use 93 octane from my local station, without any problems with the timing set to 12* BTDC. The PO did do work on the engine, but I don't have any records of what was done.

Also, the lead additive question was discussed endlessly in early Riviews when the phase out of lead began. The net-net after reading all of that was the same as what Ed is saying: high nickel content in the heads is sufficient for normal driving without lead, but if anything beyond normal driving--- high speed, trailering, racing, letting a teenager drive, etc --- then use lead.

[Guest Rob J]

I concur with Tom Telesco as being THE Nailhead guru. I'd trust what he says.

[Jim Cannon]

Jim, searching the net I have learned our fuel is RON, which they say our 98 RON is equivalent to your 92 R+M/2.

It is difficult to exactly translate RON to (R+M)/2, because you do not know what the MON of your fuel is, but you are correct, your 98 RON is roughly 92 to 94 (R+M)/2 (using typical values for MON).

That should be adequate for you to start out with your timing set to factory specs and try it. If it pings, retard the spark 2 degrees at a time and test drive. Mine pings in the summer when the engine is hot and the air is hot because I have a lot of carbon build up inside the heads in the combustion chamber and on top of the pistons. These deposits get hot and glow red, causing the ping.

This car loves the cool winter air (and I could probably push the advance back to 12 degrees, but not worth it).

If you have not worked it out yet I do not have a mechanical background. I come from the service industry but keen to learn, so could you explain the following. "And I still have to set the timing back from the stock setting (12* BTDC) back to 6* BTDC to reduce the pinging."..Does this also explain why I have a flat/dead spot when accelerating uphill due to a timing issue ?

I don't know. Do you know what your initial timing as set at? Do you have the correct '63 Carter AFB on there for your car? Are you sure your vacuum advance is working and holding vacuum?

Also the jury seems to be out about lead additive. I respect both opinion , so while I have a trunk full of additive that came with the car I might as well keep using it.

It does not hurt anything to use it, but you do not need it.

[Jim Cannon]

Jim,

From whom are you getting 97 octane gas? The highest unleaded premium around here is 93 octane.

Ed

Yea, you are right. We have 93 or 94. Senior moment.

[Guest carlbraun]

here in SoCal i can find 10 gas stations within 50 miles of me that carry 100 octane unleaded at the pump...and we're in the nazi state of Jerry Brown and the California Air Research Board (CARB).

VP Street Blaze (100 octane r+m/2) and Sunoco GT100 (same rating) are available at stations here and so is 110 Leaded if you look hard enough.

Here in California the oxygenated fuel made my GTO puke...my Riviera really comes to life with a little high octane mixed with the standard kool aid thats offered at the pumps. I dont have any pinging with running CHevron 91 octane "premium" but with 4 gallons of 100+ octane mixed in, the bark that I get from the back tires on the Riviera when the car shifts into second is worth the extra $$$.

My timing on the Super Wildcat is right at 10 deg

Edited January 27, 2012 by carlbraun (see edit history)

[George Buick Riviera]

the valve seats on my 63 Riviera had to be preplaced with hardened seats on one head and had to throw the other head into the trash bin due to excessive valve wear

Too late ignition can burn out exhaust seats and valves

Too lean fuel mixture can burn out exhaust seats, valves and pistons