Did brake test, have questions

[DAVES89]

My pump does shut off.

I have one remaining pressure switch [untested] w/o a sticker. I also have a pump/motor.pressure switch/accumulator that I had picked up about a year ago from the pick n pull. The pump has a "Made in Germany" sticker one it, but not the accumulator or pressure switch. See the diagnostics listed below.

Dianostic codes 1st# switch disconnected 2nd# switch connected

BI01 is Panel lamp HI 0 after plugging in HI 0

B171 C/C BRAKE HI 0 " HI 0

B151 GEN FBK LO 0 " LO 0

B122 PARK BRAKE HI 0 " HI 0

B121 BRK FLUID HI 0 " 0

B118 BRAKE PRESSURE HI 0 " 0

If the switch has failed should I just install the aforementioned pump assembly? Put in the untested pressure switch or buy a new one?

What are the chances are that two pressure switches would work but not allow the red light to work? Is there something else to check?

One thing I noticed is that when I first swapped out the original pressure switch about a week ago is that it was in really, really tight [so tight I bent a Sears Craftsman phillips screwdriver shaft turning it out]. How tight is tight?

Thanks guys.

Edited July 24, 2011 by DAVES89 (see edit history)

[Ronnie]

Dave, I should have looked at the FSM before telling you the input to check. I was wanting you to check the brake pressure which is BI18, but off the top of my head I was thinking it was BI01. Sorry.

Please do the checks in my last post using BI18 instead of BI01 and see what the results are before and after plugging up the pump connector.

[DAVES89]

Ronnie I did. The B118 test was as follows

With the system depressured and the pressure switch unplugged I went into the codes as you asked. The screen said HI 0 B118 Brake Pressure. After I plugged the switch back in, the pump ran for about 40 seconds and the reading was still "0". [Just to be sure I went out and checked again. The reading was still "o"]

[Ronnie]

Can you do as Padgett suggested next and see if the light comes on when you short pins D-B. If the light doesn't come on when you do I would think the BCM might be defective.

When you plugged the pump back in you should had saw LO where the HI had been. Did you? I will go out and check mine to see how it reacts.

Edited July 24, 2011 by Ronnie (see edit history)

[DAVES89]

Can you do as Padgett suggested next and see if the light comes on when you short pins D-B. If the light doesn't come on when you do I would think the BCM might be defective.

When you plugged the pump back in you should had saw LO where the HI had been. Did you? I will go out and check mine to see how it reacts.

Ronnie,

I copied your picture and jumped pins B and D as posted in the picture using a test light. I tested both with the key in the "OFF" and "RUN" position. Light did not come on.

I do have 2 BCM's in backstock.

Edited July 24, 2011 by DAVES89 (see edit history)

[Guest Mc_Reatta]

Dave, B and D form a digital ground circuit and a test light shouldn't be used to test it. (Digital high voltage not 12 volts present)

Need to use a paper clip or other piece of wire to jump B to D in the connector and then check the red brake light on the dash with key in run.

IF the brake light still does't come on, use your DVM to check pin D in the connector to the engine block or other good ground.

Set meter to the 200 ohm resistance scale, and touch the two probes together and note reading (since it doesn't show 0 like it should)

The reading between pin D (black wire) and ground should be the same as what the meter reads with the probes touching.

If that ground connection is good then it's your BCM or the wire from pin B (red/black) to the BCM.

[Ronnie]

Dave I just tested my car. The first thing I did was disconnect the pump and press the brake pedal about 20 times to be sure there was no pressure in the system.

TEST #1:

I turned the key to run. The red brake light was on. I went to BI18 and the reading was "LO 0 BI10"

Then I connected the pump (key still on) and allowed the pump to start building pressure. At a point before the pump cut off the red light went off and the BI18 reading changed to "HI X BI18" The X indicates the reading has changed since entering diagnostics.

---------------------------

Then I turned the key to the off position, disconnected the pump, and relieved the pressure again. And then disconnected the pressure switch.

TEST #2:

I turned the key to run. The red break light was off. I went to BI18 and the reading was "HI 0 BI18".

Then, using a small wire, (I don't know if a test light would give the same results), I jumped pins D-B on the pressure switch connector and the red brake light came on. The BI18 reading changed to "LO X BI18".

--------------------------

Test your car the same way and post your results here. Note whether or not LO is displayed or is missing when the condition is not HI.

Sorry for the slow response my internet is going on and off.

[DAVES89]

Here is the latest.

Jumpered pins B and D and got in the car. Red light was on for about 4 seconds then went off never to return. Even with cycling the key and also disconnecting/reconnecting the jumper lead and trying the key again.

Went into diagnostics and read code B118 still read HI 0 with the pins jumped and unjumped.

Tried the ohm meter. Ohm meter read 1.4 ohms with test leads touching each other. Connected red lead to PIN D. Black lead to negative side of battery. Reading 1.4 ohms.

What should I try next?

[Ronnie]

Dave you need to know if the Red/Blk wire has been broken between the pressure switch connector and the BCM connector. It is circuit 933.

I think you will have to get access to the BCM and remove the BCM connector and find the terminal for the Red/Blk wire. Then connect one lead of your meter to terminal B of the pressure switch connector and connect the other lead to the Red/black wire terminal of the BCM connector. You will probably need to use a length of wire to extend the lead on your meter so it will reach. Than see what your meter reads (set to ohms).

[Guest Mc_Reatta]

Its either the red/black wire to the BCM or the BCM itself. If your spare BCM is from a Reatta you may find it easier to just swap it in and see what happens rather than rigging up to test the wire. If not you would have to swap out the proms before you could use it to test. (Will be necessary anyway if you need to stay with the swap.)

[DAVES89]

I have two BCM's they both have the same #01228786. Can someone vrify? I believe I bought one from Jim when I first started building my inventory. The second one would be out of the upick.

Also anyone want to give me a quick tutorial on where the BCM can be found and how to remove? If memory serves me it is behind the glove box.

What proms do I swap? Both of them?

Also in my service manual on page 8A-50-4 it lists the 933 circuit using Connector C2 Pin B1. That would be the center plug lower row first pin from the left with the lock to the top.

[Now I don't have to look in the book again for this info]

[Ronnie]

This photo might help. It is the silver box with all the wires. Can test the connector as described above without removing the BCM/

[Guest Mc_Reatta]

You need to remove the glove box and it's right there.

One prom is the program and the other is the non volatile memory which includes the vehicle mileage.

If the program prom is the same ID then you only really need to swap the memory one to keep your odometer from showing error otherwise both need to be swapped.

[DAVES89]

For sale... One BCM that does not operate the brake warning lights correctly. lol [Not for sale-junk]

I did test with the wire [ran the lead from the pin to the BCM no light. With out removing the old BCM plugged in the "new" one and got brake warning lights again. Thanks guys!

I have the prom from the original BCM in the replaced BCM and the "red" light works as it should, as does the milage and everything else.

The ABS light is still acting up, and here is the confession. I actually and always had a code "21". Read the repair manual and it clearly states not to count the light when it goes to continued operation. So what I originally thought was a "22" is really a "21".

I am sorry.

I will start my trouble shooting all over and report with my results.

Thanks...

Edited July 25, 2011 by DAVES89 (see edit history)

[Guest Mc_Reatta]

Believe there's a hold down latch at each end that when spread out will release the prom and lift it up some like removing memory sticks from a computer.

When the new prom is seated and pressed all the way down these latches will come in and clip onto the prom so it won't vibrate loose.

Look for an arrow head molded into the plastic to show how they work.

Been a while since I've done one and can't find a photo anywhere.

Old BCM can be repaired by the way.

[wws944]

For sale... One BCM that does not operate the brake warning lights correctly. lol [Not for sale-junk]...

Would be interesting to reconnect the old one to see if reseating the connectors did anything.

[DAVES89]

OK code 21 calls for a esistance check between pins 11 and 18

Mine read 3.5 ohms

If between 2-5 ohms disconnect 2 pin main valve connector and measure resistance between pins 1-18

Mine read No Continuity

Fault is not present See note on intermittants.

Where do I find note on intermittants? [i'm on page 5E1-29

Thanks...

[Ronnie]

OK code 21 calls for a esistance check between pins 11 and 18

Mine read 3.5 ohms

If between 2-5 ohms disconnect 2 pin main valve connector and measure resistance between pins 1-18

Mine read No Continuity

Fault is not present See note on intermittants.

Where do I find note on intermittants? [i'm on page 5E1-29

Thanks...

Go to: 5E1-13 Have you tried clearing the ABS codes since getting the red light working?

[DAVES89]

Thanks Ronnie.I read the codes and put the ALDL cover baqck on and went for a drive over 18 miles an hour. That should clear it right?

Thanks for the page #.

[Ronnie]

Thanks Ronnie.I read the codes and put the ALDL cover baqck on and went for a drive over 18 miles an hour. That should clear it right?

Thanks for the page #.

Yes that is correct. Have you read the section in 5E1-9 about determining if codes age history or current?

[DAVES89]

It's current. But just to be sure I read the code again [21] and then went for a drive. ABS ight was out until 12 miles an hour and then came on/stayed on.

[Ronnie]

Dave, try removing the battery cable and replace to be sure any codes are cleared. Then test for codes before driving the car. Do you have any then?

[DAVES89]

A good idea Ronnie. I tried clearing them but they came back. Good that I checked as the positive clamp was pretty loose and the negative appears stripped as it tightens down and then loosens up. Do you think I should run a tap in there or just remove the plastic from the clamp and hope I get to a part of the thread where it grabs better?

This could be where my problem is... funny thing though is that nothing else was affected as all other electrical components work as they should

[Ronnie]

A good idea Ronnie. I tried clearing them but they came back. Good that I checked as the positive clamp was pretty loose and the negative appears stripped as it tightens down and then loosens up. Do you think I should run a tap in there or just remove the plastic from the clamp and hope I get to a part of the thread where it grabs better?

This could be where my problem is... funny thing though is that nothing else was affected as all other electrical components work as they should

Dave are you saying the code 21 came back before you drove the car? There is a good chance that loose connection could cause the code to be set.

As for the battery, You might be able to purchase, or find in the junk yard, a slightly longer bolt that would accomplish the same goal as removing the plastic. It might also be possible to install some type of thread insert like a Heli-coil in the post but I've never seen it done. I'm not a fan of having much of the positive post exposed to wrenches and other things but the negative side exposed wouldn't be a problem. Be sure to read about the cable tightening down properly here:

Battery Cable Repair*-*ReattaOwner.com

[DAVES89]

The code 21 came back before I drove the car. If you remeber all the way back to when this episode started the light would go out if I made a left turn and came on when I made a right turn. It also would turn off when going up a grade and on when going down. It could very well be a battery connection.

Padgett said that the symptom was very similar to a wheel speed sensor. It wasn't but this could be. I don't have taps, but my buddy does, I will run over by him when he gets off work and we will see about getting this done.

[Ronnie]

It will be interesting to see if that is the problem. Be sure the bolt is tightening the cable securely and not just bottoming out in the battery post as described on my website.

[handmedownreatta]

A good idea Ronnie. I tried clearing them but they came back. Good that I checked as the positive clamp was pretty loose and the negative appears stripped as it tightens down and then loosens up. Do you think I should run a tap in there or just remove the plastic from the clamp and hope I get to a part of the thread where it grabs better?

This could be where my problem is... funny thing though is that nothing else was affected as all other electrical components work as they should

im using a bolt with a big wingnut.i screw the bolt all the way in and then tighten the nut against the terminal.i did this back before i pulled the alarm fuse to reset the alarm when it went off for no reason.

[Guest Kingsley]

Dave- you might want to check the threads on the bolt to make sure that they are good. I had the same contact problem and the trouble was in the bolt threads. New bolts - FLAPS problem solved and as they come in pairs I replaced both. In all probability you have checked this in which case disregard this.

[Guest Mc_Reatta]

Disconnecting the battery cable won't clear an ECBM codes.

Need to cycle thru all the ECBM codes and then drive car over 18 mph. If codes still don't clear either they are being reset on the drive, or you need to replace the ECBM

[padgett]

If the yellow light comes on over 18 mph it is almost certainly a mismatch between wheel speed sensors. If resistances at the EBCM connector are all the same than a breakout box may be the only answer. When driving each WSS will read some millivolts but I never found out what it is supposed to be.

[Guest Mc_Reatta]

The voltage produced varies with speed until it peaks out about .45 volts.

The EBCM is not looking at the voltage of the signal but the frequency of the waveforms to see if the wheels are turning at the same speed.

Here's another place that oscilloscope would come in handy. Best would be a 4 channel scope where the individual sensor signals could be seen side by side so if one is different it would stand out.

[DAVES89]

It was a stripped battery bolt. Another thing fixed.

I clear the codes and the light comes on at aprox. 11 miles per hour. I went to my mechanic friends house and borrowed his Mac brand multimeter. I will attempt tests again [maybe today]. I have swapped the EBCM with my one back stock unit with no change in results. I believe the EBCM was originally in the Black until about a year ago when I had wheel sensor issues with that one [the Black now has all "new" sensors and works great] so I think that both the EBCMs are good, however if future tests indicate the EBCM is bad I will swap out the Blacks EBCM. [At this point in time I am really glad I have two Reattas].

However there is a specific path of tests for code 21 and if I follow it out [now with a good meter] I should be able to get it figured out.

It's been a real interesting and learning curve for me. I have swapped out two front sensor leads, low pressure switch, BCM [which fixed my red light issue] adjusted my A/C - heater control arm, fixed my glove box light as well as replaced a battery bolt. I didn't know I had so much "wrong" with my car...

Padgett, I have a front wheel sensor lead from a Caddilac that the "barrel" is longer then one from a Reatta. I installed it thinking there was still enough clearance [wrong] so I removed it and replaced it with another one I had. It still has correct resistance and if you want it just send me a PM with your address and I will send it to you. The rubber is excellant, I think you would just have to swap the barrel.

Just came in after trying the new meter. According to the tests it is a ground issue, in particular the purple/white wire on circuit 856. I peeled back the tape at the plug and it looks like there is a scrape as well as some cracking starting on the purple/white wire. The diagnosis does sound right as if you remember all those posts ago, the problem was intermittant and would come on/go away when doing specfic turns. I am now stopping and leaving this for my mechanic friend to handle. He has way more experience and can check my work and then do the repair. I consider this a learning experience and thank those that offered help and support.

Edited July 27, 2011 by DAVES89 (see edit history)

[Guest dpannell]

Glad you got it Dave.......I know how frustrating intermittents can be. Dave