1986 Park Ave Convert Left Home Today

[60FlatTop]

I have attached some pictures of the PA convert leaving home for a few weeks stay at my nephew's. I bought the car a couple months ago with a knock in the engine. Turned out to be a bad bottom end.

I did two things about it.

I bought a correct 1986 3800 long block.

I bought a 1995 Riviera Supercharged.

Devious mind at work here.

Don, the nephew, is going to drop the subframe, engine, tranny and all and we'll look things over. Putting the riviera drive train sounds interesting.

I like modified cars but I have always bought Buicks and Cadillacs. Their was not a lot of sense in swapping cars like that. Even Straight 8 Buicks are fine and powerful drivers. Of course they were always rear wheel drive with large engines in the correct location and orientation.

Now, this little convertible probably does need that supercharger and all the goodies that go with it. What the heck, someone cut the roof off already.

Anyway, he will detail the subframe during the job.

Anyone like the idea?

Here she goes for the transplant:

Edited June 26, 2011 by 60FlatTop (see edit history)

[JohnD1956]

Great idea Bernie. 95 rivs seem to sell for pennies. Watch the EGR valve on them. It will make you think the torque converter is constantly locking and unlocking. also you might have to put a bulge in the hood to accomodate the height of the S charger.

[60FlatTop]

John, Thanks for the comment. Here is the '95 Riviera I bought for $700. It has some rust in the unibody on the passenger's side. I licensed it about 5 weeks ago and have been driving it. It is going to be hard to make it a donor, but there are lots of little things that need fixing.

[serb]

Bernie, I was in Brockport the other day, I had my eyes open looking for ya but no luck. Maybe next time.

[NTX5467]

The "lower end problem" is most likely a main bearing issue. When the cars were newer, it was somewhat common for this to happen at about the 80K mile mark . . . IF they'd not been maintained very well (i.e., oil changes). MANY bargains were had on these cars for that reason. All it takes is a QUALITY "turned" crank and the appropriate-size bearings, or what many term "a crank kit".

Reason? When Buick machined the V-6s, there was the option to machine (i.e., drill out) the main oil galley with one bit from one end of the motor OR use two bits, one entering from the front and the other from the rear of the block. Buick chose the latter. As there were two drill bits, having them touch would not be a desired scenario, so they didn't drill the complete oil galley, but left it "as cast" for the middle main bearing's feed. This also meant "less flow" in that area and that should there be any "accumulation" in the oil galley from poor oil change schedules, the center main would receive LESS oil than it should, hence more wear. Other GM divisions, with the same decision, went with the "single bit" solution. As I understand it, enlarging the oil galley to "full diameter" in that area is one of the first things the Buick Performance Manual recommends.

I understand the orientation of having a more powerful engine than stock. BUT . . . the only way to do it is to have BOTH vehicles side by side, so that ALL of the COMPUTER and WIRING can be swapped from one vehicle to the other. Meaning that if you choose the 3800 to use, then you'd need to have that vehicle beside the convertible so that you get ALL of the computer items/modules/sensors/wiring transferred to the convertible. Otherwise, you could be chasing electronic incompatibilities and other things for far longer than you might desire. Between the time the convertible was produced and the Riv was produced, things became much more sophisticated and complex, to say the least. Not to say it can't be done, just that it's not going to be quite as simple as a "bolt-in" situation where everything electronic hooks up and works correctly. Also, I seem to recall that the engine/transmounts were upgraded, too, with possibly even different architectures and mounting locations on the subframe.

Just some awareness issues, no more, no less.

Enjoy!

NTX5467

[60FlatTop]

We are armed and dangerous on this one. I specialized in wiring when I serviced collector cars in the 1990's; those fussy expensive ones with Lucas smoke in them. When my nephew was going to mechanic school I fed him mechanics text books from the 40's and 50's to learn along with the modern stuff. He got his practical factors in with high end Japanese stuff. I had a method.

The 3800 SC swap is also a popular one with the Fiero guys; same brain vintage. We are reading through a ton of swap and brain info on Penock's Fiero Forum.

Next week I he should have the subframe dropped and I will take the Riviera to his garage to drop that subframe as well. Side by side and nice and open for those little modifications.

I will be driving it in a few weeks.

Bernie

[NTX5467]

Have FUN! Keep us posted on the outcomes, please.

I knew there were lots of swaps that had been done on Fieros. The NorthStar swap was one of the first ones I read of. Done by a NAPA store employee in his garage, as I recall. Wall-to-Wall motor! That was in a magazine about 10+ years ago???

Enjoy!

NTX5467

[Rawja]

Talk to these guys:

Sinister Performance, LLC.

They can help you out, even if you're doing the work yourself.

[60FlatTop]

Thanks, Rawja,

I see they have a picture of a 1988 Park Pave on their swap page.

About ten years ago I bought a 1984 Fiero with a 4.3 Chevy in it. It was an interesting swap; all the internals of a small block with two cylinders lopped off. It made a nice fit. I think that car is still floating around somewhere.

[NCReatta]

Be wary of the tranny. In the PA, it's probably not going to handle the 3800 SC power for long. If you swap it all from the Rivi, then you may need to swap the passenger side axle (at least you would on a Reatta). I believe that the Rivi has the 4T60-E transmission. Not sure what your PA has, but I can guarantee that it's not an electronic shift (that's what E stands for). I agree with NTX that it'll be best to have the cars side by side so you can just take one thing off, and put it back on.

Looks like a fun swap! I have plans for my '89 Reatta with a similar swap from a Pontiac Bonneville SSEi. Should be fun.

[60FlatTop]

After a little vacillating, the project is back on track. Things were at a point where new projects were causing deferred maintenance issues with the "finished" cars. Either the Park Ave or the '53 Jaguar had to go. The Jag has a happy new home.

That said, the '86 Park Avenue convert is on its way to groomed originality. I have the rebuilt 3.8 long block. The supercharged Riviera is now my son's car. And today we dropped the cradle for the new engine, rebuilt transmission, and a nice detailing of the sub-frame.

Here it is dirty:

[Barney Eaton]

I don't know the details about pre 1988 3800 (3.8) engines but on the 1988-1990 and even the 1991 (L) and up, there was a restriction in the firewall side header.

The exit pipe is welded on at 90 degrees and it looks like they cut the hole with a pocket knife. There is as much as 25% restriction, it can be cleaned up with a long burr or good hole saw.

Picture is taken from the output end (converter end)

[60FlatTop]

Barney,

Thanks, we will be sure to clean up that opening when we swap the exhaust manifold.

Bernie

[JohnD1956]

What a neat little package that thing makes. Doesn't look like a lot of bolts but was it hard to get out?

[60FlatTop]

John,

It is not a bad way to do it on this type of car. The radiator and hood are still in place! My nephew, Don, had a 30" extension with a half inch socket at the end. I told him that was a lot of tool for that crappy little socket. That was how he disconnected the steering shaft, the only part he thought was a pain.

And remember, when I say "we" I mean Don. I just come at the last minute, point & grunt, and take pictures.

He went to a mechanic's 2 year college after High School. I fed him text books from the 40's, 50's, 60's and coached him on real cars while they taught modern stuff. Now he car handle my '60 Buick, the '64 Riv, and this '86 is out of my league, so he's good with that.

For an order of magnitude, he is charging $1,800 for the job. I provide the long block and rebuilt tranny. He is the labor, miscellaneous consumables, and paint for the frame.

Bernie

Here's the bay, pretty clean:

[JohnD1956]

Sweet. Sounds like a good deal Bernie. Hoping for the best results...

[60FlatTop]

I'll let you drive it with the top down next year.

Bernie

[JohnD1956]

I'd be glad to take you up on that offer. I know these cars are great rides when they are hardtops. I'd be very interested to see what they are like with no roof.

BTW. any chance you can snap a few photos of any added structural supports they put in when convertibilizing it?

[60FlatTop]

Update:

I will be driving this car in October. The new long block is assembled, transmission rebuilt, and the cradle has been cleaned and painted. Waiting for a new flex plate and an AC compressor.

The car is licensed and insured so the first test drive will be legal.

It is kind of neat to have a car that potentially will get 25 MPG, is a convertible, and should attract a bit of attention where Buick guys meet. Maybe I'm on the edge of a new wave. It hasn't been too painful.

Here's where we stand tonight.

Bernie

[JohnD1956]

Crap, I hope Redwind does not see this...