New old unleaded gas additive Carbonflo.

[Rusty_OToole]

Happened on this product called Carbonflo on a web page devoted to a 1940s Daimler. It seems the car was equipped from the factory with the optional Carbonflo unit. This was a cone made of a tin alloy in the gas tank that made low octane unleaded gas into the equal of high octane leaded gas, I kid you not.

Apparently the technology has been around since the 1920s. It was used during WW2 on the Russian front, to allow high compression Spitfire fighter aircraft to run on low grade Russian fuel. The product has been on the market, more or less, ever since. It is endorsed by satisfied users including some big companies, and also by chemists and scientists.

Quote from Daimler owner:

"I filled the petrol tank, which had been cleaned by the garage but which wasn't entirely empty when I collected the car, to the brim with 70 liters of unleaded, it should contain about 20 gallons. I have read at length about the choice between LRP, unleaded or unleaded plus "lead from the bottle". But I fell for the argument that a) petrol was pretty awful in the early days after the war anyway, and these engines are not required to make a lot of revs. I can set the ignition control, and as long as the engine doesn't pink, it's fine to me. Also the petrol tank contains something called "Carbonflo" (£ 100). Carbonflo was apparently developed during the Second World War to enable the Russians, who had only low-octane fuel available to them, to fly Spitfires and Hurricanes supplied to them by the British. Carbonflo are domed-shaped cones of 22mm diameter. They are an amalgam of metals, the majority constituent being tin. They come in a ferrous metal "sock", which must be put on the bottom of the fuel tank, and they last for ever. Don't ask me how they work, that's hidden in history. But a number of people were quite positive about it and it doesn't hurt to try."

Carbonflo web site.

Carbonflo and fuel catalyst history

So what U think? Boon or bogus? Anyone have any experience of this, or knowledge of the chemistry involved?

On rereading the owners statement I may have misinterpreted the Daimler owners words. It appears he may have added the Carbonflo recently, even though the technology was available when the car was new.

Edited June 19, 2011 by Rusty_OToole (see edit history)

[Restorer32]

I suspect like all such products they are very good at doing what they were designed to do and that is to remove money from the pockets of the never ending supply of gullible folk.

[ted sweet]

agreed

[mrspeedyt]

could it be true? I hope so. send me one for free and i'll try it out. my '41 cad is a good test vehicle... it runs ok on our 'regular' unleaded but will ping with anything more than a light throttle.

[Matt Harwood]

Is the price between a tank of regular and a tank of premium more or less expensive than all the Carbonflo pellets and the setup it seems to require? Around here, the difference in pricing is $0.20 per gallon, so even with a 20-gallon tank, you're only spending an extra $4.00 to fill it up with premium. For four bucks, I'm not even going to consider pouring some unknown voodoo pellets in my gas tank.

So many people try to skimp on premium (provided their cars need it, otherwise it's a waste of money) without realizing that they could save more by skipping a cup of coffee or two instead...

[Restorer32]

2 large Starbucks coffees cost more than a gallom of Premium.

[eric_b_1937]

There may be some science behind this product. We need a Chemist on this message board willing to post.

Looks like Tin and Lead are 50 sn, and 82 Pb on the periodic table. From reading the information on the carbonflo site. It looks like they are setting up a corrosion cell to separate the tin ions into solution. This requires an anode, cathoode, current path in contact with a solution. Current would be supplied by the grounded battery, if the fuel tank is metal and there is a current path from the frame or body. So atoms could separate from the tin pills and go into solution. This could change the fuel mixture to possibly allow it to burn slower.

I have a automotive engineering book from the late 1930's that shows how to make gasoline Lead is mentioned but they left out the part about adding the lead to solution. It was probably under patent and a secret. So how's it done in the refinery today? 100 LL is still produced. I suspect they use the same process.

This wouldn't work on my car since it has a rubber liner in the tank and each car may have different results due to electrical systems.

Edited June 23, 2011 by eric_b_1937 (see edit history)

[Rusty_OToole]

The lead compound used was tetraethyl lead. How they make it I dont know but it can be done with very simple equipment if you don't mind getting lead poisoning. When they first started making the stuff for gas a number of workers got sick from lead poisoning or painters colic.

Carbonflo discs are in a steel mesh bag which goes in the the tank. Maybe the dissimilar metals start their own current flow without the battery.

[Guest AlK]

I suspect this runs along the same line of the 200MPG Pogue carb.