Guest MidTNDawg Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 I know I saw something on this early on (for me) but what is the significance of the number. This one is 47119. The 7 isn't very clear.Doug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1930 Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 It is most likey a # used by Budd Bodies ( the manuf. of your body ) to signify either some sort of production sequence and or style of body that it is intended when completely assembled. That is what we have come up with anyway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MidTNDawg Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 Jason, thanks. It is next to the Budd all-steel body tag which can be seen just to the right in the picture. Doug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1930 Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 Yes sometimes they were stamped directly into the firewall as yours was and sometimes it was a seperate metal tag riveted onto cowl as I think mine is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DodgeKCL Posted March 13, 2011 Share Posted March 13, 2011 Yes almost certainly BUDD stamped it there. It could be the 47119th body built or it could be April (4),7, Body number 119. That may be why the 119 stands out more. On the Commercial Cars (light trucks built from car chassis) the body maker put 'LR' before the body number for Line Registration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1930 Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 KCL who was the manuf. of .......Commercial Cars (light trucks built from car chassis).......that you speak off, what make I mean and when did they start putting LR before the numbers, thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1936 D2 Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 (edited) Hi all,Have been wondering the same for '36 models. There is a stamped number in the metal of the firewall, larger in size than the apparent "Budd" numbers pictured on the earlier models.This number IS NOT on the Chrysler Build Record cards for these two cars (nor any other Build Record cards for DOMESTIC '36 Dodges that I have seen) which are both 4Dr Touring Sedans. I sort of liked the idea of the "Month", "Date", "Series #" idea but that doesn't work with these two cars. [The first photo's car was built April 30th, 1936 and the second photo's car was built June 5th, 1936.]What does all this mean? :confused:This was one of the numbers I was going to try to collect when attempting to work up the earlier idea for a "1936 Dodge Car Registry". Edited March 14, 2011 by 1936 D2 Added Data (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MidTNDawg Posted March 14, 2011 Share Posted March 14, 2011 1936, your numbers look much like mine as I feel you pribably noted. Budd must have made those all-steel bodies for a while. Doug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1930 Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 Budd went out of buisness ( maybe the term out of buisness is not correct ) just a few short years ago, cant remember exactely but I think it may have been early or mid eightes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MidTNDawg Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 Budd went out of buisness ( maybe the term out of buisness is not correct ) just a few short years ago, cant remember exactely but I think it may have been early or mid eightes.I am probably wrong here but I think ThyssenKrupp AG of Germany bought Budd a few years ago. Once upon a time I followed stuff like that but no more. I don't know if they still carry the Budd name or not. ThyssenKrupp is a hugh co.Doug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texacola Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 My '27 DB "Commercial Car" (approx build date 9/11/26) has the same Budd all steel tag(appears spot welded)and #'s stamped to the left .29494 no LR. If it were a date + sequence that would be Feb.9th.Wouldn't 7 months from body build to vehicle (chassis date) seem to long a time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MidTNDawg Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 Isn't it more likely the numbers were just done in just a straight serial number sequence?Doug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MidTNDawg Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 "firewall numbers were stamped there by the Budd All-Steel-Body Company numbering the order in which the body was built."This is what I was trying to say. Were the Budd bodies all built in Michigan or were any built in PA? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idrjoe_sandiego Posted March 20, 2011 Share Posted March 20, 2011 (edited) Regarding numbers stamped into the firewall: I have never found them on Detroit built roadsters, phaetons or convertible coupes or any Canadian built DC-8 or DD-6 car. Dave, this is interesting because with the DA series, the Phaeton bodies made by Budd all have a stamped firewall# (usually starts with Q with three numerals afterward Q###). Additionally, most also have a little plate riveted to the firewall with the pattern 222-####. On the green car you can see the plate just above the vacuum tank and the Q### is barely visible, but it is there. See photos. This does not apply to the Aussie touring bodies which were not Budd products. I haven't found a real pattern to these #'s either, however its tough when the sample size is so small (less than 10). Joe Edited March 20, 2011 by idrjoe_sandiego (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1930 Posted March 22, 2011 Share Posted March 22, 2011 Thanks for the explanation KCL, I think you are also the same guy that explained in great detail the fedco system a few years ago and I will be sure to store this on the same disk. I dont think you ahve ever posted pict. of your commercial car here and if you have any I would like to see them, the sliding doors sound interesting, I would like to see how that works.Also any idea on what the LR stood for? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian_Greenlaw Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 Hi guys,Interesting threads about the numbers. Do you have anything in relation to production numbers for the cars that were exported in 1934. Mine was converted to Right Hand Drive and shipped to Australia. It has a little metal plate at the bottom of the cowl that reads " All Steel Body ". A number of chassis were sent to T.J. Richards in South Australia where they built the bodies and assembled the cars for Australia.Just wondering if you have any history on those cars ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texacola Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 KCL...when you mentioned all Dodge Commercial cars of the 20's& 30's are you referring to after Chrysler took over in '28? My '27 3/4 ton DB "Commercial car" was 1st titled in PA on 6/15/27 as an Express. Firewall does not say "Dodge Trucks" and there is no LR before the Budd body #. So I assume that change took place in '28 or latter under Chrysler? The frame is exactly the same as a car including the bridging in the rear over where the gas tank would be in a car but onthe truck the tank is under the seat.Also I believe the Book of Information for '27 is the same for car/commercial car...do you agree? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LennyDaVinci Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 Dear Ian Greenlaw ... I posted some info about T. J. Richards some time back (see http://forums.aaca.org/f143/australian-dodges-history-268816.html) and there is a good selection of photos in the Sth Aust Archives. I have a Richards-bodied roadster and the build card from Chrysler Museum shows it as a RHD chassis shipped with dates and numbers. Maybe you could contact them for a build card if you have the engine number?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1930 Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 That was great topic, I learned alot and appreciate everyone that added to it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1930 Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 Looks nice, hard to imagine those doors sliding but I will take your word for it, must have to pop out quite a but to clear Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keiser31 Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 Looks nice, hard to imagine those doors sliding but I will take your word for it, must have to pop out quite a but to clearI would imagine that they are like a mail truck (like a pocket door) where the door slides straight back instead of popping out and then sliding back like on the newer vans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1930 Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 I ws thinking popping out because of the body behind the doors Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texacola Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 KCL...being a relative DB newbie I don't claim an expert on truck history.My understanding is that Dodge made the Commercial Cars(trucks) from 1918-1928.These were Screenside or panel vehicles 1/2 ton until an upgrade to 3/4 ton in 1923.(these were built by DB )Graham made 1 and 1 1/2 ton trucks badged DB or GB.From '24-'28 GB also made some 2400 3/4 pick up trucks badged DB.Dodge went to 6 volt in the latter part of 1926 (pre-Chrysler)when they went to the two unit (seperate starter and generator).Does any of this make sense? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian_Greenlaw Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 Hi,Thanks for the great info and pics. I wish I knew half of what some of you guys do. I suppose thats why I find these forums really interesting. I've completed my chassis and engine and have stripped and cleaned the panels back to bare metal ready for the body shop. So when its raining or night I enjoy reading the forums.DodgeKCL and LennyDavinci thanks heaps for the link and information. The more you ask the more you learn and finding this extremely interesting. I'll contact the Chrysler Museum and see if they can help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Backyardmechanic Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 KlC:On our '37 the grill and trunk emblem says Dodge Brothers with the star of David.But you may be correct on manuals I do have a 1937 parts list that just says Dodge Passenger Car Parts List only.Vern. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1930 Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 Great information KCL, somehow I missed at begginning of post definition for LR being line registration, is this a guess or have you seen something from Dodge that states this? The tag that is riveted on my firewall reads 242-2905 that is found up near the top of the vacuum tank and closer to the base of tank is 6754 in very large letter, letters dont appear to have been from one single stamp as they are askew of one another. what might you suggest of any of this?What panels make up the skin for the rear portion, do you have the original panels that were removed? I see how the door works, just like a mail truck. T. Eaton company...Dept store taken over by Sears, who used the Eaton Blue as you mentioned that not to be a Chrysler color. Why are you painting it the T. Eaton Co. livery colour instead of the Eaton Blue you say it left the line with? Were the other 9 trucks painted the same color. How would these have been painted this color on the line, hard to imagine that they would change pots, stop production for this one or 10 vehicles. Any idea? What was the idea of hiring this man ...Count Alexis De Sakhnoffsky of Chicago, a famous automotive designer who designed cars for the Hollywood stars.... for this vehicle. Who hired him and what was the purpose of hiring this man to design this vehicle.Great job and at least you are not even close to being upside down on your project. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1930 Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 You are very talented and admire your thoroughness. You missed one question and that was the LR line registration, it would help me in my own studies if you have anything Chrysler related that shows this to be the correct definition for these two letters. I have some more questions concerning Plymouth production that might not strike any interest in this Dodge forum, is it possible to contact you thru private e-mail if you have the time, either way thanks for all the great contributions you offer everyone on this forum. My e-mail is jhason2@yahoo.com just in case Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1930 Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 (edited) A good friend of mine sent these to me, I thought that some of you guys might enjoy. I have much larger clearer versions that I can e-mail anyone interested. It amazes me that the D.B club has not started a location on their site for catalouging original car photos or maybe I am just not looking in the right place, shame on them if it hasnt been done or shame on me for being to stupid to figure out where to find that on their site. I am guessing that you would not find a much more original 33 Dodge and its beutifull.Its funny in that its marked top 20 original, I have been to local AACA shows and I have seen at the shows where they are training there judges to walk around and what to look for so that they can then judge, some of these people I have personally known and some of them are very articulate and some of them are baffoons who wouldnt know fake wood from real. I sat there one time and watched a pack of idiots judge a Weyman car. I dont know who was more furious, the owner of the car or myself. If this car was only in the top twenty than I would LOVE to see the other 19.Look at that coil, marvelous Edited March 26, 2011 by 1930 (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DodgeKCL Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 (edited) That dash is the same dash as in a 1933 HC(L) Commercial Car. I also have a Chrysler factory photo showing those wooden artillery wheels on an Express pickup. My '35 KCL and all '33 HCs and '34 KCs share this '33 car front 'clip'. BTW when Dodge updated their Commercial Cars and trucks in 1936 to the car front end design, like the same 1933 front end design used for the 3 running years of '33,'34 and '35, it appears they kept the '36 look until 1938. The ad for 1938 trucks and Commercial Cars shows the same 1936 front end. This information would be highly valuable to someone restoring one of these vehicles but I give it with a grain of salt as there may be small differences in mounting. I had to make a very small 1" cut in the inside skirt edge of the 1933 DP front fenders to clear a bolt head on the frame of the 119" extended wheelbase frame. This may explain why the parts books give different part numbers for the HC/KC fenders as opposed to DP car fenders as they wouldn't expect a garage to make this slight cut. This may also be applicable to 1936 LC and '36 car fenders. Edited March 26, 2011 by DodgeKCL (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DodgeKCL Posted March 27, 2011 Share Posted March 27, 2011 (edited) I don't remember who first came up with 'Line Registration' for the 'LR' before the body number on the small aluminum tag on Commercial Cars and trucks. I have body plate numbers from several vehicles,all commercial,starting in 1934 and going on to 1939 that people have sent me and all have that same letter/number sequence- 'M-2-1 LR 94356' for instance. Who ever put the plate on the firewall,whether body maker or Dodge, used the same code for many years with no deviation. I have deciphered the code this way: 1st letter (B,K,M etc.) denotes the year. Strangely Dodge reused the letter K ,from 1934 and '35 year models, some years later on the body plates. Must of made for interesting parts ordering. The two numbers separated by dashes denote the body style, -1-0 for instance is a plain jane flat faced cowl and chassis. 'B' can be either a '34 or '35, M I believe was 1939 ( don't have my notes in front of me). These letters on the body plate have no connection with the Dodge model letter for that year. At least none that I can find yet. How did they arrive at the letters over they years? Did Dodge tell the body builder what letters to use or vice versa. Who put the plate on? The larger black and silver truck plant plate would have been put on by Dodge Main as only they would have known whether the cowl body went on a KC or an extended chassis KCL for instance. The KCL was hand stamped by whomever had the job of installing the plates. The LR denotes body line registration number on, I think, the body builders line. And the numbers following are definitely the sequential body production number. When I first got my KCL I knew nothing about it and thought the small firewall body tag was the custom builders plate. I never did find a plate from them. Edited March 27, 2011 by DodgeKCL (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dodgekcl35 Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 This was a great thread. lots of info that i hadnt heard before. thanks to all.Gary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian_Greenlaw Posted October 8, 2011 Share Posted October 8, 2011 Hi Guys,Just a bit of info for you on the ID Plates.When I bought my Dodge ( which was totally disassembled ) there were no ID plates at all on it.I went to buy some for my Dodge and the people selling then said they were out of stock and not getting any more. I then approached the manufacturer who told me they guy who got them made had died. He offered to make them for me but I had to buy a full sheet.Now I'm getting them made and selling them on ebay. Theres the Budd Body Plate, Dodge manufacturers plate and the Body Number Plate.I've attached some pics of the plates.I'm happy to sell to people at this forum if anyone is interested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dep5 Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 . . . .I am guessing that you would not find a much more original 33 Dodge and its beutifull......Looks interesting but where is the sidemount tire mounting hardware? What car did the luggage rack come from? Modern generator 'cut-out' switch mounting bracket.Question, did light colored cars of this era have black firewalls and cowl from hood lacing forward? I see no pin striping, not sure about the hubcaps, are these correct for 33?Just wondering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1930 Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 (edited) Quote.........I am guessing .............I know little about the 33 cars, so that is why I threw in the I am guessing part. Do you know of a more original complete driveable 33 car? ( I would guess not ) If so please post some pictures, I am guessing again that someone here will be able to pick out the details that are not quite correct as we live in an imperfect world. Quote...........Modern generator 'cut-out' switch mounting bracket...........Your looking pretty hard for imperfections, keep up the good work and thanks for the chuckle. Edited October 9, 2011 by 1930 (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1930 Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 Ian I like that Budd Body plate, I dont need one but how much, I have known cars in the past that have needed this plate. Good luck with your sales Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dep5 Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 (edited) Quote.........I am guessing .............I know little about the 33 cars, so that is why I threw in the I am guessing part. Do you know of a more original complete driveable 33 car? ( I would guess not ) If so please post some pictures, I am guessing again that someone here will be able to pick out the details that are not quite correct as we live in an imperfect world. Quote...........Modern generator 'cut-out' switch mounting bracket...........Your looking pretty hard for imperfections, keep up the good work and thanks for the chuckle.The bogus luggage rack, bogus sidemounts and 1950's paint job with no pin striping belie the assertion that this is an original car.Does a knowledgeable person know if all 1933 Dodges used the side mount spare hardware pictured at this link?http://forums.aaca.org/attachments/f119/44952d1262583686-1933-dodge-coupe-nice-coupe-4th-small.jpgor, did the early cars use a pickup truck style mounting bracket? Edited October 9, 2011 by dep5 . (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1930 Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 I still say its about as nice and original as any other that may be found on the road today, I didnt see any photos that you posted of a more original and considering that you are unsure about what the sidemount hardware looks like for the car and in your own words lack the specific knowledge and am looking to others for the answers I cant assume that there is anything incorrect or wrong with the luggage rack or the sidemounts on the car. I will agree with the probability of the paint job not being original but again considering that the car is in regular use and the rarity it would be difficult to find a more original 33 Dodge.Thanks for the effort anyway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian_Greenlaw Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 I'm selling them for $30 to AACA Members ( $36 on ebay ) plus postage which runs out at approx $6 to the US. I'm also getting a Desoto manufacturers plate as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1930 Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 Very nice, good luck with your sales and I will keep it in mind Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian_Greenlaw Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 1936 D2 - Earlier in this thread you posted the following picture. Are you able to give me a better shot of the red id tag located in the right of the picture ?ThanksIan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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