Guest WEB 38 Posted March 5, 2011 Share Posted March 5, 2011 Sitting here using my laptop going for a couple hours without recharging. The thought crossed my mind why dont they make a lithium ion battery for our cars instead of dragging around a heavy lead acid battery around. wont that save enough in gas in time to pay for itself ? Just a thought. Bill WEB 38 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barney Eaton Posted March 5, 2011 Share Posted March 5, 2011 I guess it all depends on what and who's numbers you use.For instance, at Home Depot the other day I noticed cordless drill/powertool batterys on the shelf. The regular one was roughly $50 (I think it was an 18/19volt) the lithium ion battery was $95. It was smaller so probably lighter, but almost twice the price. How much lighter would it need to be to justify roughly double the price?I replaced a huge 6V (19 inch long) battery in my 1939 Buick with an Optima battery for several reasons. The Optima is not lithium ion but is a different technology (spiral wrapped) it has a non-conductive mesh that seperates the plates and the mesh holds the acid in a jell.I purchased it because...... the original long narrow batteries are....(1) hard to find(2) have only a one year warranty(3) cost between $80-$120 depending on the brand and seller(4) weigh a bunch(5) are ancient technology and do not hold a charge well in a car that is not used.The Optima was ordered directly from the factory and cost $165 delivered in 2 days with a 3 year warranty. So far I am thrilled, it cranks the car like crazy, holds a charge, which give me a good feeling when you have been to a show/meet and are ready to head home and don't want to look for someone to jump your car to get it started. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
padgett Posted March 5, 2011 Share Posted March 5, 2011 I usually buy Optimas when they have a rebate (was there one last year ?) and then get them from Sam's Club (about $30 under list - suspect Costco and BJs have similar deals). I usually buy the dual post 75/25 since it can be used in anything I have, has no trouble spinning the big high-compression Pontiac. Do not know how long they last since I have not had one fail.Do keep the little float chargers on ones that are not driven daily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harry yarnell Posted March 5, 2011 Share Posted March 5, 2011 Getting back to the origional question about using lith-ion batterys in our Reatta's; do they have the necessary cranking amps to run a starter motor?... in the winter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WEB 38 Posted March 5, 2011 Share Posted March 5, 2011 I would think if mass produced for all cars the cost would drop considerably.Yes I Also use the Optima batteries but I think that the lithium ion would be one step better. Bill WEB 38 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wws944 Posted March 5, 2011 Share Posted March 5, 2011 Porsche offers one. However for the savings in weight and space you get to fork over $1600.00. Tesla roadster uses $43k worth of lithium-ion batteries.I'd like to echo what Barney and Padgett said. I like AGM batteries because they don't leak. Have used Optimas for years, and just bought a Deka AGM a few days ago for my 944.By the book, the Reatta wants a group 78 battery. Both Optima and Deka offer group 34/78 AGM batteries. However Costco has, or at least had, the Optima 35/75 at a nice price. A 35/75 works just fine in place of a group 78. It is just an inch or two narrower in the long dimension. Turns over the 5.7l in my truck just fine, from sea level to Tahoe in the winter.Note the Reatta Judging Manual wants to see a Delco battery. Unfortunately Delco does not make an AGM battery. So if that sort of thing is important to you, you are stuck with a flooded battery and potential for leakage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfair Posted March 6, 2011 Share Posted March 6, 2011 They are here already for motorcycles and I have no doubt that automobile applications are just around the corner. Take a look at this:Vehicle Replacement Batteries for Motorcycles, ATV, Watercraft, Snowmobile, Utility Vehicle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WEB 38 Posted March 6, 2011 Share Posted March 6, 2011 Wow It looks like that answered my question. BILL web 38 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
padgett Posted March 6, 2011 Share Posted March 6, 2011 The problem with LiOn batteries is the cost/life/power issue. Near half the $100k price of a Tesla is said to be the 6,831 18650 3.7v 2600 mAh cells. ($7.25 ea. for 4, est. around $5 in volume are they cheaper somewhere ?)To get 200Ah 14.8v you would need about 307 cells or about $1500. An Optima is 10% of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfair Posted March 6, 2011 Share Posted March 6, 2011 To get 200Ah 200 AH??????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
padgett Posted March 6, 2011 Share Posted March 6, 2011 Sorry, thinking of deep cycle. Optima 75/25 is rated at 44Ah (25A for 90 minutes at 20C.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDirk Posted March 6, 2011 Share Posted March 6, 2011 Another issue is the availability of material. Lead is plentiful, and the most recycled metal in the world. Thus, it is cheap and since it is one of the primary components of a conventional car battery and it works just fine for the application, it is still the preferred battery technology. Lithium is not as common as lead, and this is a large factor in the price difference. I do not know if lithium recycles as readily either, so that may also be a large factor keeping the price up. I don't see the price ever getting as low as a conventional car battery even on volume, so a Li car battery will always be a premium item. Then there is the cost vs. benefit analysis. How much weight can be shed vs. a regular battery? And how much difference will this really make in a car like the Reatta which is already heavy relative to it's size. A typical car battery is maybe 50-60 lbs. If you cut that by half, or even a two thirds, I don't imagine it's really gaining much fuel economy with the reduction of 25-35 lbs. Finally there is life expectancy. Optima batteries last at 6 years in my experience. I had at least one last over 8 years in regular use. This is markedly better than most common car batteries, and more than makes up for the extra cost. I would need to see some real science on the projected life span of a Li battery in an automotive application to see if it was comparable. KDirk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCReatta Posted March 6, 2011 Share Posted March 6, 2011 I don't imagine it's really gaining much fuel economy with the reduction of 25-35 lbs. You could more easily (and more economically, too) just vow never to carry another passenger in your car (particularly those mother-in-laws), empty the trunk completely, or never buy 5 gallon jugs of Gatorade and get the same result (or better). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mc_Reatta Posted March 6, 2011 Share Posted March 6, 2011 Another factor with Li ion batteries is that the charging and discharging current needs to be regulated carefully in order to keep them from overheating and catching on fire. This can be done at the cell level or at the pack level. This adds to cost and decreases reliability. (Only repair I've had to make to my Li tools so far is from the charging circuit failing.)As we know, the environment in a car especially under the hood is not very benign (electrically or thermally), and hardening a Li ion battery for this environment is a challenge. (Read expensive until demand and innovation allows for cost reductions.)If the electric car makes a mark in the automotive marketplace, A Li battery for the rest of us at an attractive price will be an offshoot of that. And if that happens, the Li recycling industry will increase as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
padgett Posted March 7, 2011 Share Posted March 7, 2011 Always felt battery power is just temporary until fuel cells become economical. If anyone was serious, we'd be seeing diesel-electrics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mc_Reatta Posted March 7, 2011 Share Posted March 7, 2011 Honda has its FCX Clarity fuel cell powered electric vehicle going into limited production. Looks promising if a supply of hydrogen fuel stations can be developed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thriller Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 If anyone was serious, we'd be seeing diesel-electrics. We have been for years, just on a larger scale than automobiles...they ride the rails. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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