McLaughlin Classic Built Buicks

[Guest P.M.O.]

1907 was 1908 McLaughlin 15 years build with Buick's.Durant lost his job in 1910. McLaughlin built Chevrolet's started in 1915 for Durant and found he did not have the funds so sold out to Durant giving him %49 .Where did Durant get his money? not GM. Durant Traded his Chevrolet Stock for GM Stock and took over GM in 1918. Durant made McLaughlin, GM of Canada back to 1908? and bought out McLaughlin totally in 1921. So my thinking after 1921 on most McLaughlin cars belonged to GM but McLaughlin had his name on until 1942. I know as a member of Buick club you really had this known?

Lendrum @Hartman considered sales 152 cars in 1932 200 in 1933 1934 850 cars 1935 1000 in 1936 2000 and 1937 2000 the two cars 1927 royal tour of Canada and 1935 90-l for Lady Ramsey in 1936 90-l and its replacement ordered by Lendrum @ Hartman for King Edward and a 1936 Roadmaster for Mrs Simpson the Duke of Windsor purchased 1938 90-l to replace his 36 a 1937 went to Duke of Kent a 1938 90-L to his dutches a 1939 90-L for the duke of Kent and two more 1939 were built for the Royal tour of Canada by King George 6Th and Queen Elizabeth one now owned by Vern Bethel in Vancouver. The other by Larry Norton of Oshawa

I do hope this helps your club out in knowing it was more than two for Royalty.

Edited January 24, 2011 by P.M.O. (see edit history)

[Guest P.M.O.]

PMO,

What is interesting about the past is that body builders all over the world found Buicks to be a good standard for the basis of their cars as did Durrant of GM fame.

In the past in Australia a Holden bodied car was Shunned as the imported car was seen to be more desireable.

It was found on some of the lesser value cars that more was given by Holdens than the original manufacturers eg; Ford tourers with external door handles, Rugby's with GM type VV ventilator windsceens where none existed on imported bodies.

In recent years Vintage and Classic Holden bodied cars are now celebrated and accepted with pride by owners, this should be the case with McLaughlin Buicks. Celebrate the uniqueness and similarity, what a great talking point two or more cars the same year and make but different .

The steel bodied cars of the thirties hold some reverence here now due to the engineering and cleverness of Holdens to make two basic body styles fit from Chevs to LaSalles, Studebakers to Vauxhalls and to be done with in model and calender years. Unbelivable when you think about it. Not to mention the Sloper sedans.

If the Badge on the front says Buick the engine is Buick then thats what is regardless of what local content and body it's still a Buick.

Lets preserve as many as we can.

Regards

Andy

love your idea but the human idea of a heart never made us the same and in this some were honored to keep it on their sleeve. I know when I started this it would have the nay sayers. Buick has been my car of choice for 50 years and I have owned 75 cars in my life time. I remember the crying done when Chevrolet and Pontiac had motors that were not of that car.we did not run out and change the badging.Then when you see all the hot rods with Chevy blocks that are Fords we never call them Chev's? or may be you do?

[sfair]

This is my point with McLaughlin Moot don't cut it. H Brunn found himself to be a great designer of Buick and many other companies and ended at Ford. This is odd that Brunn and McLaughlin studded

Ha! That is funny.

[Guest P.M.O.]

P.M.O.

Did you read the link from the GM of Canada website that I posted earlier?

It is difficult to understand what you are saying, but without some actual documentation, I will have to trust the history from the GM of Canada website. Here are four paragraphs from that source that don't seem to agree with your thoughts on ths subject.

"When Sam McLaughlin, decided to expand his family's carriage business into the production of automobiles early in the last century, he went looking for a suitable car to build. The first vehicles he tried failed to live up to his exacting standards. Then, after a chance meeting with William Durant of the Buick Motor Company, he bought a 1906 'Model F' Buick from the Dominion Automobile and Supply Co. in Toronto, for $1,650. By the time he had reached Oshawa with it he decided "this is the car we're going to build."

Both McLaughlin and Durant were anxious to strike a deal, but they simply couldn't come to terms on the financial details. The McLaughlins decided to do it alone, designing and building a car of their own. Plans were well underway, and engine castings had been ordered for the first hundred cars when Arthur Milbraith, the engineer in charge of the project, became seriously ill.

Sam McLaughlin contacted Durant and asked him if he could lend them an engineer to complete the project. Instead, Durant himself came to Oshawa with a revived proposal for collaboration and the deal was done, according to Sam, "in about five minutes." The McLaughlins had obtained the rights to build Buick automobiles in Canada for 15 years.

The McLaughlin Motor Car Company was incorporated on November 20, 1907, with Sam McLaughlin as President, and production of 'Model F' McLaughlin-Buicks began soon after. The chassis and engines were Buick; the body based on Buick's design but built by McLaughlin with detail differences based on the company's long-established expertise as a coach-builder. "

Only to let you know the cars McLaughlin bought were Buicks that he thought to be Junk or not up to his standards. I have that information as well as

[Larry Schramm]

PMO,

What is your point???

Basically in Col Sams words he said that he sold McLaughlin to GM to continue its existence as he did not have any other family to carry on. Also with the very favorable terms that he had in the orignal contract with Buick and Durant he could have gone it alone but undersood the risks. THERE WAS NO TAKE OVER OF MCLAUGHLIN BY GM. It was a consentual sale to GM from the McLaughlin family. Go back and read the narrative by Col Sam him self that Matt Hinson posted. Especially the first two sections. Those are HIS words. Here is the link again.

My Eighty Years on Wheels By R. S. McLaughlin

[sfair]

How about McLaughlin building OAKLAND from1921 to1930 it would seem like a good idea to use your imagination?

??????? Even with my imagination, I cannot understand this statement.

Try again!!!

[MCHinson]

P.M.O.,

Here are just a few points made by Sam McLaughlin, in his own words... from the link.

"I have heard people regret that the coincidence of an engineer falling ill should have put an end to the project to produce an all-Canadian car. I may say that any regret on my part is tempered by the hard facts of the automobile industry, by the very great probability that if our engineer Arthur Milbrath had not become ill and we had proceeded with our plan to make our own cars, we almost certainly would have taken a header; and once having failed in our first effort we might never have got back into the automobile business.

No, the coming of Durant to Oshawa, not with an engineer to lend us but with a plan for co-operating with us in building cars, was a blessing. Even with the Buick connection we had to be lucky to succeed. We just happened to pick a car that was destined to make good. I have often wondered why some cars succeeded and some failed. One of the strangest facts about the automobile business in North America is that in its fifty-odd years no fewer than 2,400 different makers have manufactured and offered cars for sale; in each case the designers and engineers put the best they knew into the car; each was launched with high hopes - and today you can count on the fingers of two hands the car manufacturers who have survived.

A contract with an American manufacturer was no guarantee of success in Canada, either - a few names that no longer exist are the Briscoe, made by Canada Carriage; the Everett, made by our good friends and competitors the Tudhopes of Orillia, and the Gray-Dort, made by the Gray Carriage Company of Chatham. In the carriage business Gray was actually bigger that we were at first, but we soon passed it.

The motor business is a volume business. If you don't have volume you're sunk. And that's as true today as it ever was. It is unfortunate for the smaller auto makers, but it is a hard fact that can't be overcome. In that first year that we made McLaughlins cars with Buick engines - it was only part of a year really - we turned out 193. That's not a high figure in terms of 1954 production, but it was quite a feat for a bunch of carriage makers who were just cutting their teeth on automobiles.

Not long after he made his agreement with us Durant started to parlay Buick into General Motors by taking over or buying control of Oakland, Oldsmobile, Cadillac and other companies making cars or car parts. Incidentally, in answer to people who sometimes wonder nostalgically "Whatever happened to the good old Oakland?" I would like to mention that nothing happened to it - except that a particularly popular model of the Oakland, produced in 1926, happened to be named the Pontiac and the company started concentrating on that model.

To me personally the arrangement with Durant meant much more than making cars in Oshawa. I was made a director of General Motors corporation, and took part in the adventurous events of the early years of the industry - events largely sparked by the energy and enterprise of William Durant."

You really should read what he wrote. At least he is not still around for you to argue with him about his life story.

[West Peterson]

I know when I started this it would have the nay sayers.

Nay sayers???? Nay sayers to what? I haven't read one word disputing what you say.... probably because hardly anyone here can understand what you are trying to say.!!

In one full, proper and complete sentence, what is it that you are trying to argue???

[Guest P.M.O.]

PMO,

What is your point???

Basically in Col Sams words he said that he sold McLaughlin to GM to continue its existence as he did not have any other family to carry on. Also with the very favorable terms that he had in the orignal contract with Buick and Durant he could have gone it alone but undersood the risks. THERE WAS NO TAKE OVER OF MCLAUGHLIN BY GM. It was a consentual sale to GM from the McLaughlin family. Go back and read the narrative by Col Sam him self that Matt Hinson posted. Especially the first two sections. Those are HIS words. Here is the link again.

My Eighty Years on Wheels By R. S. McLaughlin

I respect your interest and when Oshawa gave the $50,000 to rebuild the plant his father was Mayor. Please forgive me if I in any way indicated that GM took over McLaughlin. This in Fact . has me saying Durant and McLaughlin started GM of Canada .My Question is Who put up the Money ,Durant Buick,Chevrolet . I know Sam's Father started with the factory?

[Larry Schramm]

The $50,000 WAS NOT GIVEN to the McLaughlin enterprise. Is was a loan.

From the link

"But we wanted to stay in Oshawa. We felt a loyalty to the town in which we had now been established for nearly a quarter of a century, a loyalty which amounted to the feeling that Oshawa owned the business as much as the McLaughlins did. And we soon had heartening evidence that Oshawa reciprocated that feeling. The town offered us a loan of $50,000, to be repaid "as convenient.""

Edited January 24, 2011 by Larry Schramm (see edit history)

[Guest P.M.O.]

P.M.O.,

Here are just a few points made by Sam McLaughlin, in his own words... from the link.

"I have heard people regret that the coincidence of an engineer falling ill should have put an end to the project to produce an all-Canadian car. I may say that any regret on my part is tempered by the hard facts of the automobile industry, by the very great probability that if our engineer Arthur Milbrath had not become ill and we had proceeded with our plan to make our own cars, we almost certainly would have taken a header; and once having failed in our first effort we might never have got back into the automobile business.

No, the coming of Durant to Oshawa, not with an engineer to lend us but with a plan for co-operating with us in building cars, was a blessing. Even with the Buick connection we had to be lucky to succeed. We just happened to pick a car that was destined to make good. I have often wondered why some cars succeeded and some failed. One of the strangest facts about the automobile business in North America is that in its fifty-odd years no fewer than 2,400 different makers have manufactured and offered cars for sale; in each case the designers and engineers put the best they knew into the car; each was launched with high hopes - and today you can count on the fingers of two hands the car manufacturers who have survived.

A contract with an American manufacturer was no guarantee of success in Canada, either - a few names that no longer exist are the Briscoe, made by Canada Carriage; the Everett, made by our good friends and competitors the Tudhopes of Orillia, and the Gray-Dort, made by the Gray Carriage Company of Chatham. In the carriage business Gray was actually bigger that we were at first, but we soon passed it.

The motor business is a volume business. If you don't have volume you're sunk. And that's as true today as it ever was. It is unfortunate for the smaller auto makers, but it is a hard fact that can't be overcome. In that first year that we made McLaughlins cars with Buick engines - it was only part of a year really - we turned out 193. That's not a high figure in terms of 1954 production, but it was quite a feat for a bunch of carriage makers who were just cutting their teeth on automobiles.

Not long after he made his agreement with us Durant started to parlay Buick into General Motors by taking over or buying control of Oakland, Oldsmobile, Cadillac and other companies making cars or car parts. Incidentally, in answer to people who sometimes wonder nostalgically "Whatever happened to the good old Oakland?" I would like to mention that nothing happened to it - except that a particularly popular model of the Oakland, produced in 1926, happened to be named the Pontiac and the company started concentrating on that model.

To me personally the arrangement with Durant meant much more than making cars in Oshawa. I was made a director of General Motors corporation, and took part in the adventurous events of the early years of the industry - events largely sparked by the energy and enterprise of William Durant."

You really should read what he wrote. At least he is not still around for you to argue with him about his life story.

Never to argue my Questions ?Where are the dates Durant was kicked out of GM after buying Cadillac Oldsmobile and his run at Ford had him fired in 1910. Durant introduced Chevrolet into McLaughlin in 1915? Durant was back in GM after Chevrolet shares bought out GM. 1918 .I am sorry for not just taking information as written, it is wrong for me to be so ignorant, It has been suggested in some ways I just go away too. Take my Rants and let this thing die. I would say it has generated some life here if it has not ticked, some lesser people to yell and laugh . I never intended to upset anyone if I have i do apologize. John Jeffery born 1939

[Guest andy2755x]

We in Canada McLaughlin built so the steering wheel would work in both England and where it was wrong for us Forign you might say and the cars Holden built for the USA must have been the same. (OH by the way this is not a Contest) it is more like separating McLaughlin cars from Buick. Holden could not do that would be my Question to you.

Strange that you say Holden could not seperate from Buick/GM

The first Holden was A baby Buick designed and built by Buick

[factual reference:75 years of Buick page 215 a picture of a Holden model 48 215]

The design etc sent to Australia and now Holdens live every where and only a few Buicks come to Australia, Australasia.

Holdens still use V6 Buick engines built in Australia amongst other GM sourced engines.

As far as a contest goes there is no contest why would you by a car that is esentially the same as one from over the border. (same continent)?

must have been tax breaks for the market at the time and remember Empire British was every thing at that time here .

Living on an island on the other side of the world we were lucky to get a car at all

Thanks

Andy

[Guest Tishabet]

P.M.O.,

I don't know quite what you expect here. You seem to be mad at the world and want to argue with us because you don't think that McLaughlin has been treated fairly in the History books. I don't think that anybody here wrote any of the history books.

You asked "Has any one out there listening? Have you been listening?

I have posted a link to McLaughlin's own words... here it is again:

My Eighty Years on Wheels By R. S. McLaughlin

When I posted his McLaughlin's own version of history, you simply ignored it. You continued to argue another point with others, but failed to respond to my concern that McLaughlin's memory of his life seems different from your version of his life story.

It is interesting reading, you should read it.

Your totally valid and perfectly stated post has no business on this thread

P.M.O.: when the governor gave the factory because of or in spite of the steel demand for its war effort, was not McLaughlin setting some precedent for future regardless of GM OR Ford?? Done you might say in the same style as Henry Ford himself for what he did later when it was time for FoMoCo? What these guys don't get is how these recorded historical FACTS fit into the bigger picture and after that I don't know how can ignore it what with what he ended up doing.

Care to rebut?

[R W Burgess]

Sorry Grant, he's on a "Timeout"!

Wayne

[Ian Hayhurst]

Just want to post a word of appreciation to Thriller, MCHinson, and sfair for keeping the facts straight.

I am a great admirer of Col. Sam and what he achieved as McLaughlin, McLaughlin-Buick, and GM Canada, but there is no doubt that they were all Buicks, mechanically speaking (except for that Oakland-based Light Six). That said, the earlier models certainly carried bodies that were different and sometimes fancier than the US versions.

More on the Light Six--this is from Cars of Canada by Durnford and Baechler:

"Another major change in Oshawa for 1916 had been the reluctant elimination of all four-cylinder cars, following a decision by Buick in the US that fours were no longer necessary. This, of course, was not the case in Canada where low price and durability were still very important. McLaughlin didn't want to be cut out of the low-medium price field but, with the four-cylinder Buick engines no longer available, there seemed no choice. McLaughlin got around the problem by introducing its own Light Six, using a Northway engine and based on the US Oakland built by GM. McLaughlin was even able to offer the Light Six for $1085, which was less than the cheapest four of 1915. Although the early models suffered from overheating and oil-pumping problems, they gave good fuel and tire economy, and with the prestige of a six-cylinder engine they sold well. The Light Six was built until 1922...."

As for the earlier comment that "McLaughlin studded", Sam was a prominent horse breeder and racer. But I don't think that was the intended message.....can't be sure. I have found this thread to be amusing, baffling, and even embarassing (as a Canadian).

Ian

[Guest P.M.O.]

P.M.O.

Did you read the link from the GM of Canada website that I posted earlier?

It is difficult to understand what you are saying, but without some actual documentation, I will have to trust the history from the GM of Canada website. Here are four paragraphs from that source that don't seem to agree with your thoughts on ths subject.

"When Sam McLaughlin, decided to expand his family's carriage business into the production of automobiles early in the last century, he went looking for a suitable car to build. The first vehicles he tried failed to live up to his exacting standards. Then, after a chance meeting with William Durant of the Buick Motor Company, he bought a 1906 'Model F' Buick from the Dominion Automobile and Supply Co. in Toronto, for $1,650. By the time he had reached Oshawa with it he decided "this is the car we're going to build."

Both McLaughlin and Durant were anxious to strike a deal, but they simply couldn't come to terms on the financial details. The McLaughlins decided to do it alone, designing and building a car of their own. Plans were well underway, and engine castings had been ordered for the first hundred cars when Arthur Milbraith, the engineer in charge of the project, became seriously ill.

Sam McLaughlin contacted Durant and asked him if he could lend them an engineer to complete the project. Instead, Durant himself came to Oshawa with a revived proposal for collaboration and the deal was done, according to Sam, "in about five minutes." The McLaughlins had obtained the rights to build Buick automobiles in Canada for 15 years.

The McLaughlin Motor Car Company was incorporated on November 20, 1907, with Sam McLaughlin as President, and production of 'Model F' McLaughlin-Buicks began soon after. The chassis and engines were Buick; the body based on Buick's design but built by McLaughlin with detail differences based on the company's long-established expertise as a coach-builder. "

David O. Hayward was a Professor in The Imperial Collage of Science, Technology and Medicine, London University. It was he who wrote the (General Motors In Canada: The Early Years to 1919) I do hope you would reconsider reading it. Then trust the author has it rite

[Guest P.M.O.]

The $50,000 WAS NOT GIVEN to the McLaughlin enterprise. Is was a loan.

From the link

"But we wanted to stay in Oshawa. We felt a loyalty to the town in which we had now been established for nearly a quarter of a century, a loyalty which amounted to the feeling that Oshawa owned the business as much as the McLaughlins did. And we soon had heartening evidence that Oshawa reciprocated that feeling. The town offered us a loan of $50,000, to be repaid "as convenient.""

try GENERAL MOTORS WORLDWIDE INFORMATION FILES INDEX

[MCHinson]

P.M.O.

I am hesitant to even respond but I just can't help myself.

Your link goes to a site that opens with this comment:

"This site has been established in order to publish various Working Papers for general study and comment on automotive history. Please click on the file listings to open them."

Followed by 9 different "Working Papers"

So, While I still tend to think that I will take General Motors of Canada's Sam McLaughlin quotes as the authority on this issue...

Please tell me which "Working Paper" you are talking about now, so I will not have to waste my time reading any more than necessary to try to understand what you are talking about.

Also, from that site:

Please contact me for updated files:

David Hayward: gmhistorian@btinternet.com

Maybe you should be discussing this with Mr. Hayward, it seems as if he may share your interest in this subject.

[Guest P.M.O.]

P.M.O.

I am hesitant to even respond but I just can't help myself.

Your link goes to a site that opens with this comment:

"This site has been established in order to publish various Working Papers for general study and comment on automotive history. Please click on the file listings to open them."

Followed by 9 different "Working Papers"

So, While I still tend to think that I will take General Motors of Canada's Sam McLaughlin quotes as the authority on this issue...

Please tell me which "Working Paper" you are talking about now, so I will not have to waste my time reading any more than necessary to try to understand what you are talking about.

Also, from that site:

Please contact me for updated files:

David Hayward: gmhistorian@btinternet.com

Maybe you should be discussing this with Mr. Hayward, it seems as if he may share your interest in this subject.

He has given me some direction ,one was to the author of Driving Force Heather Robertson .The fact many in the USA enjoy being directed, I hope you will take it upon yourself to read anything David has on his site.

I would not want a time out for rubbing anyones nose in information.

[Guest Oracle]

May I come in here please? Not posted for a long time! Firstly, I wish I was a Professor but my PhD thesis on the GM plant in Southampton was rejected by the examiners (University of Southampton) so I just have a post-grad equivalent. I have never in fact been to Imperial College! So with ultmost respect there is confusion with someone else though I am flattered.

I have had the pleasure of writing on GM in the British Isles since 1898 to 1948 [draft book], and various other papers. The online one on GM in Canada, The Early Years, is out-of-date but I have upgraded it. I also have copies of newspaper adverts from the time including the first known McLaughlin one from 1908 showing the models sold.

From my notes I can see that the Mclaughlin Motor Car Co Ltd was extant until 1942. CANADIAN AUTOMOTIVE TRADE from 1923 refers to the launch in August 1922 of 'McLAUGHLIN-BUICKS', which is the earliest provable reference. I think, but this is under correction, that GM of Canada used this nomenclature for 1922 Model Year as that was the first year for export Oshawa-built Buicks. The UK had, as is well known, had Buicks built in London by Bedford Motors Limited since September 1909 which were badged as 'Bedfords' Then in 1912 when Bedford Motors merged with GM to form GM (Europe) Ltd they were BEDFORD-BUICKS sold alongside Buicks! The UK then received their first Canadian McLaughlin-Buicks in 1922 Model Year but they were described as 'BUICKS'!

Howver they may have had McL-Buick badges.

I welcome any input in to the early years of GM in Canada....but whatever is posted or mailed is intended for discussion only please. And improvement and/or correction. I have been researching and writing for nearly 20 years now on the subjects.

Edited February 14, 2011 by Oracle (see edit history)

[Guest Oracle]

This is an old paper that was written some time back. Hope that is of interest!

THE ROYAL McLAUGHLIN-BUICKS

The first “Royal” Buicks were various 1924 Models which were used when the then Prince of Wales opened a massive dock in Southampton, and a photo of the Prince getting into Southampton registration CR 9161 appeared in CANADIAN AUTOMOTIVE TRADE magazine of September 1924. The caption reads “At the opening of the new dry-dock at Southampton, England, just prior to his trip to Canada, HRH. the Prince of Wales used nine Canadian built McLaughlin-Buick motor cars to transport himself and [his] party. This is the first time that any but English cars have been used by British royalty in England”. The actual car was registered with CR 9161 in Southampton County Borough, but the details of the registration do not exist. It is believed that the car was actually given to him as a present, just before he sailed for Canada and just after he opened the British Empire Exhibition in April 1924 at Wembley, as the Canadian centre had a large General Motors of Canada display in it. These are the details of the two similar cars from registration records:

CR 9162 BUICK MONARCH 7-SEATER TOURING , registered in 1924

CR 9161 BUICK MAJESTIC TOURING GREY 27.3 H.P. 6-CYLINDER 1924 BORE 3 3/8 INCHES SERIAL # 89839 ENGINE # 1171579 registered 10 July 1924

On 27 June 1924 the Prince of Wales rode in CR 9162 when officially opening the Prince of Wales Floating Drydock in Southampton. Nine cars were used for the official party, and this was the first time that the Royal family had used anything other than British cars. The occasion was just before the Prince sailed for Canada, and the U.S.A., and shortly after the opening of the British Empire Exhibition at Wembley 23 April 1924, the Canadian Pavilion being the most visited. A photograph of the car with the Prince getting in was published in Canadian Automotive Trade, September 1924. It is believed that the cars were all supplied by local dealers, Southern Traction Limited of Southampton, and registered, temporarily in some cases, CR 9161 to CR 9168. Southampton City Council records show that CR 9161 was a 6-cylinder 27.3 H.P. Majestic Touring Model 24-X45 painted grey Serial # 89839 Engine # 1171579, on the short chassis. CR 9162 was it seems a 7-seater Monarch Touring Car, Model 24-X49, but as the car appears to have been sold or transferred to another County, there are no records of the issue of the number and it was not re-allocated. CR 9163 was a 4-cylinder 18.9 H.P. Majestic Touring in grey, # 81606 Engine # 1100295. CR 9164 was a four-cylinder 18.3 H.P. Model 24-X37 Saloon, Serial # 82245 Engine # 1105067. CR 9166 was a Model 24-X49 Monarch 7-seater Touring Car in yellow and blue, Serial # 91431 Engine # 0013287. Finally, CR 9168 was a 4-cylinder 18.3 H.P. Coupé in Maroon, Model 24-X33, Serial # 80773 Engine # 1110096. The missing numbers must have been for Buick cars that were sold and the numbers re-used, although in two cases we know that the numbers were allocated to 1925 Model Buicks sold by Southern Traction”.

At the Exhibition the marques exhibited included various GM of Canada-sourced cars: a Superior Chevrolet Tourer, and at least one Buick Tourer [Models 24-34 Standard Four or 24-55 Master Six], an Oakland Tourer and an Oldsmobile Tourer. The Oakland was in fact a Model 6-54A, one of 783 Oaklands built in Oshawa, and the Olds was a Model 30B six-cylinder Tourer, one of 1,481 Oldsmobiles built in Oshawa in 1924. Three photographs and a brief reference appeared in General Motors World in July 1924”.

Then, as illustrated on the front cover of Driving Force by Helen Earley [car in National Museum of Science & Technology, Ottawa, as is the 1939 Royal Touring Car] For a tour of Canada in 1927, General Motors of Canada Limited provided two special 1928 Model 28-496 Touring Cars, one of which was Serial # 139645, Engine # 2034106, painted in Desert Sand with turquoise stripe, and seated seven with lizardskin seats and spare wheel cover.

1928 MODEL McLAUGHLIN-BUICKS [2 OF] MODEL 28-496 TOURING CAR

NMST cars is Serial # 139645 ENGINE # 2034106. This would be a Model 28-49 Touring Car in U.S. parlance.

General Motors of Canada

Ltd.

Made in Canada

Oshawa, Ontario

Model 28496 Serial no. 139645

Engine no. 2034106

The first Royal McLaughlin-Buick in the next decade was acquired by a member of the Royal Family, Lady Patricia Ramsey, who was a granddaughter of Queen Victoria. She ordered a Freestone & Webb limousine to be built on a 1934 NA chassis [1933: CA SEREIES; 1934 NA SERIES, 1935 DA SERIES, THEN CO/MO/RO SERIES: Lendrum & Hartman's idea!] . The chauffeur, Fred Rix went to the Willesden works [New car Production Department] daily to see the building of the chassis, and then to the coachworks. The car was registered AYL 237 in London in 1934, and was built especially tall so that the owner, who was over 6 ft. tall, could enter and alight gracefully. The car was used well into the Sixties.

The most famous Royal [McLaughlin-] Buicks were the 1936 models of H.M. King Edward V111, though there were in fact several cars acquired between 1936 and 1939 by both the King, later H.R.H. The Duke of Windsor, and his brother, the Duke of Kent: both series 49 Limited and 48 Roadmaster.

Mr Johns recants the tale that during the Autumn of 1935, the then Prince of Wales paid a visit to the Albemarle Street showrooms of Lendrum & Hartman, and Captain Hartman himself was called from a local hairdressers to personally attend on his Royal client. The works manager, Ted Taylor, who had been recruited by Hartman from the Buick Company, then had an appointment to visit the Prince at York House to take instructions on the requirements of the client. Taylor was then sent to Oshawa to supervise the building of the two cars ordered: one the main car, the other a back-up. The cars were in fact Model 4933 Limited chassis, with special Limousine bodywork. The fittings included a 2-wave radio with controls in the rear-seat armrest, the rear quarter windows were replaced by panels, and inside mirrors with recessed lights, and folding rear lamps were covered by sliding panels. The rear window was only 5 in. high, which ultimately necessitated a rear-view mirror mounted on the side-mount. The rear window could be covered by an electrically-operated rear blind. Two Batteries were fitted below the driver’s seat, with a double-pole throw switch enabling the spare battery to be switched in an emergency. Marchal headlights and fog lamps were fitted, with wiring modified to reduce voltage drop. A Smith’s “Jackall” hydraulic system was fitted, together with Goodyear “Lifeguard” innertubes to make blowouts unlikely. The interior fitments of the special car included a pipe-rack, cocktail-shaker, drinks and glasses cabinet, a food container, cutlery, telephone directories. Gold cigarette boxes presented by Captain Hartman, and a holder for Swan Vestas smokers’ matches. There was also a second car, which seems to be forgotten about, which was back-up car. The first car was unusually registered, as Royal cars in the ownership of the King, as the Prince had become in January 1936, did not carry registrations though other Royal cars in the Royal Mews were registered, though often with special numbers. The first car was registered CUL 421, which was in March 1936, the registration following shortly after a large batch of London Passenger Transport Board buses! This car was driven generally by Mr George Ladbroke, Head Chauffeur. There was clearly no effort to allocate a special number and perhaps this was for reasons of anonymity? The second car was given the registration CLN 6 and was clearly delivered slightly later, registered in London as before in June 1936? The other car ordered was in fact purchased by Mrs Wallis Simpson’s second husband, Mr Ernest Aldrich Simpson an American-born British natruralized businessman living in London, for her personal use, and was delivered at the same time as CUL 421, but allocated CUL 457, and driven by a Mr Wagstaff, Second Royal Chauffeur. This car was not a Model 4999, but a series 48, Model 4899 Roadmaster chassis four-light Limousine built on the series 48 [u.S. 80 series equivalent] chassis by Oshawa. Both cars were ceremoniously photographed together outside the Buick House emporium with Captain Lendrum standing behind. A photograph of either of the two original cars was featured in the London Motor Show advertisement for Buick in 1937 Show Catalogue. CUL 421 was registered 6 March 1936 and carried Serial number 649990164 and Engine number 2943885

When first wrote this paper I had just been watching a BBC documentary on Edward and Mrs Simpson and just after he abdicated it shows the king leaving Fort Belverdere in CUL421 folowed by a Buick limo with the rear quater windows intact and a large rear window,the reg no was CXF436 [London County Council] as far as I could make out..

Later in the season, the Duke of Kent acquired a 1937 Model 49 Limited Limousine, a standard model, which was registered with his personal registration YR 11 [London County; his brother, the King George V was Duke of York prior to his accession and I wonder whether YR 11 was his, i.e. YoR ..K? ]]. This car was then exchanged for a special 1938 Model with wind-down black glass to the rear quarter-lights. This new car had the registration transferred to it as well, so there were two YR 11 cars. This was actually ordered by Princess Marina, Duchess of Kent, and was fitted with “purdah” glass that could be wound up to obscure both rear quarter-windows. Servicing was carried out at her Belgrave Square address, and the car was driven by chauffeur Mr Field. A photograph of the original YR 11 was published in General Motors World of December 1936, which described the car as “A special Canadian-built, McLaughlin-Buick 90 Limousine, purchased by His Royal Highness the Duke of Kent, through Messrs Lendrum and Hartman of London-Since the car is to be used for official purposes, it is fitted with the Royal Crown and with the Royal Ensign”. The car naturally had dual sidemounts, plus fog-lamps.

There were to be two further special Model 49 Limited models ordered by the Duke of Windsor in 1938 and 1939 whilst he was living in France, though R.H.D. and four-light configuration as per CUL 421.

*One of the cars is currently held by the Canadian Museum of Science and Technology, Ottawa, and both cars were Model 4929 (Series 90) Royal Touring Cars, the car in the Museum being serial # 9492902502, Engine # W3422857, i.e. a Walkerville-built unit. The chassis was an extended 155” wheelbase 4900 series, and the body a four-Door 7-seater Touring Car, 29.

Edited February 14, 2011 by Oracle (see edit history)

[Guest Oracle]

As regards the Holden 48-215 see:

It was probable that as a consequence of the dire consequences in t

This was also published in RESTORED CARS, Australia.

[Guest Oracle]

This is the earliest known McL-Buick advert: note the 'McLAUGHLIN-BUICK' name! I was in error when I suggested that it was introduced in 1922..should have checked.

The advert mentions Models D, F, 6, 10, G and S. It is dates 16th April 1908, and was from THE TORONTO STAR I think.

[Guest P.M.O.]

I find the book By Heather Robertson /The Driving Force to answer many of my Questions.

[Guest P.M.O.]

This is an old paper that was written some time back. Hope that is of interest!.............

............*One of the cars is currently held by the Canadian Museum of Science and Technology, Ottawa, and both cars were Model 4929 (Series 90) Royal Touring Cars, the car in the Museum being serial # 9492902502, Engine # W3422857, i.e. a Walkerville-built unit. The chassis was an extended 155” wheelbase 4900 series, and the body a four-Door 7-seater Touring Car, 29.

David Hayward tells me Ken Kaufmann is not well , I wish him well and find he tried to re write McLaughlins Shipping costs not Knowing McLaughlin built his own rail in Oshawa and had a deal on shipping with Trunk Railroad to the rest of the world.

[1912Staver]

Hi Oracle and others. I see you have revised your 1922 Mclaughlin Buick first apearance date. I suspect 1924 may be the first year the enamaled radiator badge was changed to Mclaughlin Buick. I have never seen one on a 23 or earlier car, but I suspect this was amended for the all new 1924 offering. The badge fixing changed from small pins with coresponding holes in the steel shell to a single larger hole and soldered on mild steel disk device on the badge itself. The pressed aluminum hubcaps on my 1918 Mclaughlin E6-45 special 5 Pas. touring are marked Mclaughlin Buick. The radiator badge and serial plate on the toe board simply say Mclaughlin {carriage company on the serial plate}. I doubt the hubcaps have been changed . The car was in storage since the early 1930's before I aquired it, and the hubcaps looked like they had been in place for a long time when the car was in use. { Hub grease forming a even coating on both hubs and hubcaps}. Most of the series D{1916-17} cars I have seen have hubcaps that only say Mclaughlin. So I would say by the late teens there was a move toward using the Mclaughlin Buick brand. I belive the hubcap thread diameter is bigger on the series E cars compared to the series D. So if new dies were required it made scence to use the new company designation. Hope this helps Greg in Canada

[Guest Oracle]

The Oshawa plant had a rail connection directly into the plant.

The National Archives show that the Canadian Northern Ontario Railway Company laid in spur lines on the application of the Oshawa Railway Company directly into a new building in the G.M. of Canada Plant.

Canadian Automotive Trade 12, no. 5 (May 1930): 25.

In the NEWS This MONTH

R. S. McLaughlin, president, General Motors of Canada, who was elected a director of the Canadian Pacific Railway Co. this month. Mr. McLaughlin also was named a director of the Ontario Jockey Club recently.

I go along with the 1924 start date for badging ..I am sure that I now recall that that this was the case.

Canadian Automotive Trade 5, no. 7 (July 1923):

BIG EXPORT SHIPMENT LEAVES GENERAL MOTORS PLANT AT OSHAWA

According to recent government reports, exports from Canada have grown to very large proportions. One of the chief factors in this big overseas business is General Motors of Canada Limited.

Recently a train of 80 freight cars pulled out of the railroad yards at Oshawa for New York. This is the largest single trainload of any kind ever pulled out of a Canadian Railway yard. The 80 freight cars held 407 automobiles—234 McLaughlin-Buicks and 173 Chevrolets. From New York they were shipped by steamer to South Africa, Australia, British East Africa, Ceylon, Strait Settlements, Argentina, Denmark, Java, India, Portugal, New Zealand, Columbia, Rhodesia, Jamaica, Uruguay, Mexico, Belgium and Sweden.

Edited February 17, 2011 by Oracle (see edit history)

[Guest Oracle]

I was looking through my database of Buicks imported/assembled in the UK and found a reference to what I assume was an Oshawa-built 16AA ambulance.

Rego BL 6022 registered as a "MCL BUICK" AMBULANCE April 3 1919 to CANADIAN RED CROSS SOCIETY, HOTEL YORK, BERNERS ST,LONDON W1. There were a large number of Canadian McL-Buick ambulances sent to Europe, and there were also US 16AA ambulances used by the US forces and US Red Cross. Note however that it was described at the time as a McLaughlin-Buick.

[Larry Schramm]

Are there any records that might show McL/Buick built trucks in Oshawa during the teens? Does anyone know of any that might have survived? I am interested in the Buick truck population that has survived. Thanks

[Guest Oracle]

I have seen an advert for a McLaughlin truck, but here's from my notes:

Rapid Trucks were imported into Canada from summer 1909 by IMPERIAL MOTOR CAR COMPANY LIMITED of Toronto, and the successor General Motors Truck were probably as well. The evidence for this was that as mentioned above The McLaughlin CARRIAGE COMPANY Limited sold Randolph and Reliance trucks [being sales agents for Canada for the 1-ton Randolph] and thus were presumably importers under a deal with Durant. Ken confirms that the G.M. Company purchased Randolph Truck Company in January 1910 for $400,000 and moved it from Chicago to the ex-Buick engine plant that Buick moved out of in 1909 as also mentioned above. This was the plant across the street from the F.W.W. that Sterling Engine bought from G.M. in late 1912 and Mason took over from Sterling in March 1913.

An advertisement in the 12 December 1912 The Toronto Daily Star mentions a 1½-ton Rapid truck for sale, in use a few months, by the McLaughlin Carriage Co. Ltd., Church and Richmond Streets so possibly McLaughlins took over ‘GMC’ responsibility after Imperial stopped trading by uly 1912?

The McLaughlin Motor Co also produced the 1915-on C4 and then 1916-on D4 vans. A reference in The Toronto Daily Star 8 September 1915 mentions that the McLaughlin company exhibited at the CNE various cars as well as a Red Cross ambulance similar to those at the Front dealing with ‘our injured boys’.

They may also have built Model 16 trucks, the basis for the 16AA Ambulances but I have no proof yet. I also have no proof as to whether the McLaughlin Carriage Co. imported GMC trucks..I am not sure how I can find out at this juncture.

Edited February 17, 2011 by Oracle (see edit history)

[Larry Schramm]

Thanks

[Guest P.M.O.]

I have seen an advert for a McLaughlin truck, but here's from my notes:

Rapid Trucks were imported into Canada from summer 1909 by IMPERIAL MOTOR CAR COMPANY LIMITED of Toronto, and the successor General Motors Truck were probably as well. The evidence for this was that as mentioned above The McLaughlin CARRIAGE COMPANY Limited sold Randolph and Reliance trucks [being sales agents for Canada for the 1-ton Randolph] and thus were presumably importers under a deal with Durant. Ken confirms that the G.M. Company purchased Randolph Truck Company in January 1910 for $400,000 and moved it from Chicago to the ex-Buick engine plant that Buick moved out of in 1909 as also mentioned above. This was the plant across the street from the F.W.W. that Sterling Engine bought from G.M. in late 1912 and Mason took over from Sterling in March 1913.

An advertisement in the 12 December 1912 The Toronto Daily Star mentions a 1½-ton Rapid truck for sale, in use a few months, by the McLaughlin Carriage Co. Ltd., Church and Richmond Streets so possibly McLaughlins took over ‘GMC’ responsibility after Imperial stopped trading by uly 1912?

The McLaughlin Motor Co also produced the 1915-on C4 and then 1916-on D4 vans. A reference in The Toronto Daily Star 8 September 1915 mentions that the McLaughlin company exhibited at the CNE various cars as well as a Red Cross ambulance similar to those at the Front dealing with ‘our injured boys’.

They may also have built Model 16 trucks, the basis for the 16AA Ambulances but I have no proof yet. I also have no proof as to whether the McLaughlin Carriage Co. imported GMC trucks..I am not sure how I can find out at this juncture.

The Build document for GM of Canada shows 1919, 675 Chevrolet trucks

[Guest P.M.O.]

Thanks

Buick trucks (1910-1911 model 2-A) called furniture wagon (1915 model C-4 jitney bus) W.S. Seaman (1916 model D-4 funeral car).

[Guest P.M.O.]

The Oshawa plant had a rail connection directly into the plant.

The National Archives show that the Canadian Northern Ontario Railway Company laid in spur lines on the application of the Oshawa Railway Company directly into a new building in the G.M. of Canada Plant.

Canadian Automotive Trade 12, no. 5 (May 1930): 25.

In the NEWS This MONTH

R. S. McLaughlin, president, General Motors of Canada, who was elected a director of the Canadian Pacific Railway Co. this month. Mr. McLaughlin also was named a director of the Ontario Jockey Club recently.

I go along with the 1924 start date for badging ..I am sure that I now recall that that this was the case.

Canadian Automotive Trade 5, no. 7 (July 1923):

BIG EXPORT SHIPMENT LEAVES GENERAL MOTORS PLANT AT OSHAWA

According to recent government reports, exports from Canada have grown to very large proportions. One of the chief factors in this big overseas business is General Motors of Canada Limited.

Recently a train of 80 freight cars pulled out of the railroad yards at Oshawa for New York. This is the largest single trainload of any kind ever pulled out of a Canadian Railway yard. The 80 freight cars held 407 automobiles—234 McLaughlin-Buicks and 173 Chevrolets. From New York they were shipped by steamer to South Africa, Australia, British East Africa, Ceylon, Strait Settlements, Argentina, Denmark, Java, India, Portugal, New Zealand, Columbia, Rhodesia, Jamaica, Uruguay, Mexico, Belgium and Sweden.

The Grand Trunk Railway from Toronto to Oshawa in 1856 in 1895 the Oshawa Railway ( electric ) was in Place from 1895 until May2, 1964 when the last Electric Engine was removed. Oshawa was a Hub of Industries prior to McLaughlin. I have lived in Oshawa from 1947 and the Rails ran to Lake Ontario. The Highway 401 ended at Oshawa Simcoe street in 1947. The rails ran through Oshawa, as a Tram line would for workers too.

[Guest P.M.O.]

Doing a little bit more research, I found this nice article "My Eighty Years on Wheels By R. S. McLaughlin" This link takes you to page one. Most of the time period that has been discussed here is probably on the third and last page of the article. All three pages are interesting reading.

My Eighty Years on Wheels By R. S. McLaughlin

And he is Quoted as saying:

[MCHinson]

I hesitate to ask, but where is that quote from?

Even though you make it look like it came from the link that I posted from GM of Canada's History page, I can't find that quote on that website.

Also, please attach the entire text or a link to the entire text here if you want folks to read it, Your attachment is cutting off part of the quote which makes it difficult to read.

[Guest P.M.O.]

I hesitate to ask, but where is that quote from?

Even though you make it look like it came from the link that I posted from GM of Canada's History page, I can't find that quote on that website.

Also, please attach the entire text or a link to the entire text here if you want folks to read it, Your attachment is cutting off part of the quote which makes it difficult to read.

I have just read this Quote in the Book, The Driving Force by Heather Robertson,This book published in 1996, Please do not hesitate to ask. XXXXXXXXXXXXXX Your Post on Canada History can be blind sided too. Find the book and read it to discover many things that I was Ignorant on, I did asked when I came to this site.

Edited February 19, 2011 by R W Burgess
offensive sentence (see edit history)

[MCHinson]

P.M.O.,

In multiple discussions on the forum, I have tried to help you understand the importance of being careful to post clear and complete sentences and/or questions with careful attention to punctuation, so that people can understand what you are trying to say or ask. After quite a few of these attempts I am tired. I give up.

Please refrain from posting any more comments in a manner so that they appear to be quotes from me when they are not quotes that I posted.

I really admired a fellow forum member's McLaughlin Buick when I saw it at Louisville. That is the extent of my knowledge and interest in McLaughlin Buicks. Best of luck to you but I have reached the point where I am no longer interested in participating in any further discussion of this topic.

[Barry Wolk]

I have just read this Quote in the Book, The Driving Force by Heather Robertson,This book published in 1996, Please do not hesitate to ask. XXXXXXXXXXXXXX Your Post on Canada History can be blind sided too. Find the book and read it to discover many things that I was Ignorant on, I did asked when I came to this site.

I don't remember you asking anything, just telling us in disjointed thought that you were setting history straight. I don't see where you've done that. Even the last article you posted seems to be some kind of fantasy that was told by someone with oldtimers. Even the author didn't find it credible, saying that his aged rant was a combination of stories with no real basis. Sounds familiar.

[R W Burgess]

These last two posts have convinced me that this topic has run its course. Thanks for all your particapation.

This thread is now locked.

Wayne