McLaughlin Classic Built Buicks

[Guest P.M.O.]

Any McLaughlin Buick owners from 1908 to 1943 want their cars known as Classics ? This is outside of the Buick's built in the rest of the world? I know McLaughlin to have built a Quality product in his time. A.P.Sloan ordered a McLaughlin Buick put around the corner so it could not confuse buyers that was the Quality that Buick built.

[Rusty_OToole]

You could start with the 2 McLaughlin - Buick limousines custom built in Oshawa for the King of England in 1936.

Perhaps he got the idea from the touring car they furnished for his 1923 visit. I believe he was quite impressed with McLaughlin quality as was Sloan and a lot of other people at the time.

When they made horse drawn carriages (1867-1912) McLaughlin's motto was "One grade only, and that the best". Starting in 1908 they built their own bodies on Buick chassis which they assembled. McLaughlin designed and built their own bodies into the mid to late 20s, as the hand made wood framed body gave way to the mass produced stampings they became practically the same as Detroit products.

[Guest my3buicks]

I would think the McLaughlin's would fall under the same guidelines as the regular Buick line - built in Canada, but still a Buick. At the BCA Nationals we don't segregate the McLaughlin's

[Guest P.M.O.]

I would think the McLaughlin's would fall under the same guidelines as the regular Buick line - built in Canada, but still a Buick. At the BCA Nationals we don't segregate the McLaughlin's

This in fact is not true GM had no hold on McLaughlin until Durant with his Chevrolet built also by McLaughlin acquired GM Holding Company in 1918. and the McLaughlin name stayed until 1942. all the cars with McLaughlin names Chevrolet included were in fact McLaughlin's. not Buick / McLaughlin's or Chevrolet /Mclaughlin's. I think in time American Canadians and Americans in the United States will be one North America . American but until we agree to disagree you will find McLaughlin was the founding father of The Canadian Automobile Industry. I want to get it Back.

[Guest P.M.O.]

You could start with the 2 McLaughlin - Buick limousines custom built in Oshawa for the King of England in 1936.

Perhaps he got the idea from the touring car they furnished for his 1923 visit. I believe he was quite impressed with McLaughlin quality as was Sloan and a lot of other people at the time.

When they made horse drawn carriages (1867-1912) McLaughlin's motto was "One grade only, and that the best". Starting in 1908 they built their own bodies on Buick chassis which they assembled. McLaughlin designed and built their own bodies into the mid to late 20s, as the hand made wood framed body gave way to the mass produced stampings they became practically the same as Detroit products.

Love your Idea but McLaughlin started his craft under The Greatest craftsman in the world before getting his dad to allow him to build his car in 1907 this became a 1908 McLaughlin not Buick. This was not a marriage with any one other than McLaughlin loved the Buick races and Chose to get a contract with the owner of Buick for his Motor .This was Durant.

[Guest my3buicks]

This in fact is not true GM had no hold on McLaughlin until Durant with his Chevrolet built also by McLaughlin acquired GM Holding Company in 1918. and the McLaughlin name stayed until 1942. all the cars with McLaughlin names Chevrolet included were in fact McLaughlin's. not Buick / McLaughlin's or Chevrolet /Mclaughlin's. I think in time American Canadians and Americans in the United States will be one North America . American but until we agree to disagree you will find McLaughlin was the founding father of The Canadian Automobile Industry. I want to get it Back.

A Buick is a Buick is a Buick - just like any car with a custom body it is still what it started out as. Not all McLaughlin's were high end special cars. It was Buicks outlet in Canada, plain and simple. Heck, they used chevy brakes on them from what I have heard. Now that's quality!!

[Guest knuckle head]

The top end McLaughlins were very different from the common ones. The lower ones were built on Chevrolet frames. Much like the Canadian Pontiacs.

The early Mclaughlns were certainly of a higher Quality.

Henry

[West Peterson]

I want to get it Back.

What is it you want to get back?

[Guest P.M.O.]

What is it you want to get back?

The McLaughlin Name / not Buick ,Buick is what was built in the USA but McLaughlin built his cars and as you Know it had his name on cars up until 1942 called McLaughlin .That were called Buick's ,after 1942 ,Buick's are a renowned name in the world but let it be known Canada did and will forever import Buick's and has been exporting McLaughlin's thought out the World (McLaughlin Cars) a Buick is a Buick but a McLaughlin is a Car built under the name from 1907 to 1942. in Canada by Canadians for the world and the USA. I would like to see McLaughlins given them the same as any other Classic deserves not folded in with cars that looked like them. This is my Quest.

[Larry Schramm]

What does this say and what is the banner name? (larger type)

[Guest P.M.O.]

I Do not know how many McLaughlin Cars have been in you Car shows and do not care. I would say the old McLaughlin cars I have seen at car shows have always given me pride in the fact the 32 years I worked for GM of Canada. I had met R.S.McLaughlin and his Legacy should not have been stolen by Buick as a Buick. Buick should stand on its own as a Classic . and not need to use McLaughlin's to prop it up in any way. This is to say a Buick is a Buick give McLaughlin back his Car, Give Canada back their Car and keep your Buick I would love to see this in my life time as a true Buick and a McLaughlin built with Chev breaks that would throw them out of the Buick judging yes?No?

[Guest P.M.O.]

What does this say and what is the banner name? (larger type)

Larry you know sales were down on McLaughlins and McLaughlin thought he would use Buick as a trade off to up sales and lost

more Canadian sales. he then went back to McLaughlin. You try to demean me in this way. Please try to help not hinder, you know better than to do this realy?

[MCHinson]

P.M.O.,

I really know very little about this subject. It is clear that you are very passionate about McLaughlin's history.

I did a quick Google Search and this is what seems to be the most reliable source of information on the subject that I can find on the internet:

History of GM Canada

It may not say exactly what you want it to say, but it seems interesting to me.

[Rusty_OToole]

Here is the story in a nut shell. McLaughlin started making horse drawn carriages and sleighs in Canada in 1867. They became the largest maker of horse drawn vehicles in the British Empire. Early in the twentieth century they decided to look into making cars. McLaughlin spoke to his old friend William Durant who he knew from the days when Durant worked at the Flint Carriage Works.

Durant advised him that it would take at least 2 years to develop a satisfactory chassis but if he liked, he could buy Buick chassis and have a reliable, proven car right away. This made sense to McLaughlin as in those days, many carriage makers bought their running gear and made only the body. McLaughlin made their own patent running gear for their own use, and also sold it to others.

So they had no problem buying Buick chassis and installing their own make of bodies, and selling the result as a McLaughlin-Buick.

In 1918 GM bought McLaughlin but it continued to operate as a separate entity known as General Motors of Canada.

Now that Studebaker has gone out of business this makes General Motors of Canada the oldest vehicle maker in the world. 20 years older than Mercedes, and nearly 40 years older than Johnny come lately Rolls Royce.

Did they make any custom body cars? I know they built a touring car especially for the Prince of Wales' visit to Canada in 1923, and that as King Edward he bought a couple of limousines in 1936. There may have been others but they must be few and far between.

[Guest my3buicks]

The McLaughlin Name / not Buick ,Buick is what was built in the USA but McLaughlin built his cars and as you Know it had his name on cars up until 1942 called McLaughlin .That were called Buick's ,after 1942 ,Buick's are a renowned name in the world but let it be known Canada did and will forever import Buick's and has been exporting McLaughlin's thought out the World (McLaughlin Cars) a Buick is a Buick but a McLaughlin is a Car built under the name from 1907 to 1942. in Canada by Canadians for the world and the USA. I would like to see McLaughlins given them the same as any other Classic deserves not folded in with cars that looked like them. This is my Quest.

The McLaughlin name was on those Buicks - but they also carried the Buick name on them as well. Here is a picture of one of the famous McLaughlin BUICKS for the Royals - you can plainly see the BUICK badge on the grill and there is plainly no mistaking it is a Buick as with ALL McLaughlin BUICKS.

[Guest my3buicks]

I Do not know how many McLaughlin Cars have been in you Car shows and do not care. I would say the old McLaughlin cars I have seen at car shows have always given me pride in the fact the 32 years I worked for GM of Canada. I had met R.S.McLaughlin and his Legacy should not have been stolen by Buick as a Buick. Buick should stand on its own as a Classic . and not need to use McLaughlin's to prop it up in any way. This is to say a Buick is a Buick give McLaughlin back his Car, Give Canada back their Car and keep your Buick I would love to see this in my life time as a true Buick and a McLaughlin built with Chev breaks that would throw them out of the Buick judging yes?No?

Without BUICK there probably would not be much McLaughlin history - it would have been a fleeting company - it took the grat name of BUICK to even make the McLaughlin name recognizable.<!-- google_ad_section_end -->

And oh PPLLEEAASSEE get real on this statement:

"I had met R.S.McLaughlin and his Legacy should not have been stolen by Buick as a Buick. Buick should stand on its own as a Classic . and not need to use McLaughlin's to prop it up in any way. This is to say a Buick is a Buick give McLaughlin back his Car, Give Canada back their Car and keep your Buick"

And no, at a Buick show the McLaughlin would be judged as it was to have been originally, junky Chevy brakes and all.

[jscheib]

P.M.O.

I am not sure either of what you are advocating, but I will offer a few comments.

What Keith mentioned above is true, the Buick Club of America considers every McLaughlin, as if it were a Buick. This does not deminished the marque or history of the McLaughlin, as far as I can determine.

If you are talking about a Classic (with the capital C), you should check the CCCA recognition and then make your argument with them if you feel certain cars should be Recogoinized as a Classic. I do not think you will have any luck with the AACA, or Buick forums pushing the argument.

In the event you are not aware, or others may have an interest. The BCA Bugle magazine also lists Other Buick Clubs not affiliated with the BCA. One is;

McLaughlin Buick Club of Canada

Bob Ward

25 York St.

Sutton West, Ontario, Canada

LOE 1RO

905-473-9557

[TG57Roadmaster]

There is another very important McLaughlin Buick, the 1939 Custom made for

that year's Royal Visit by King George VI & Queen Elizabeth.

It is on display and can be seen in an Ottowa museum. As for McLaughlin's

legacy being stolen by Buick, I doubt he would have stayed on as head of

GM of Canada and later Chairman of its board of directors if he felt he had

been cheated by Durant.

Samuel McLaughlin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Interesting to note that his brother founded Canada Dry,

the very famous beverage company.

P.M.O., for the life of me, I can't figure out what you're trying to prove with

this endless barrage of rants about McLaughlin and against Durant. There

must be a McLaughlin biography somewhere in a library that you can read to

learn more about his and early-GM history.

Contact the very active McLaughlin-Buick Club in Canada to further your

knowledge on the subject.

There is a lack of coherence in your posts that makes them impossible to

comprehend. Is this due to a language barrier, sloppy typing, or what?

We can not answer questions or participate in a conversation when we

don't know what the question is.

You risk being completely ignored if you don't communicate questions or

thoughts that can be easily understood, and that starts with you, not us.

Please consider these requests and suggestions.

TG

[Guest P.M.O.]

Without BUICK there probably would not be much McLaughlin history - it would have been a fleeting company - it took the grat name of BUICK to even make the McLaughlin name recognizable.<!-- google_ad_section_end -->

And oh PPLLEEAASSEE get real on this statement:

"I had met R.S.McLaughlin and his Legacy should not have been stolen by Buick as a Buick. Buick should stand on its own as a Classic . and not need to use McLaughlin's to prop it up in any way. This is to say a Buick is a Buick give McLaughlin back his Car, Give Canada back their Car and keep your Buick"

And no, at a Buick show the McLaughlin would be judged as it was to have been originally, junky Chevy brakes and all.

Nice but you forgot McLaughlin built Chevrolet Too until Durant had enough stock to buy himself back into Durant's folly(called by the New York times)GM.GM of Canada went on later the Upstart company built Cadillac and La Salle. Give me a break get McLaughlin cars as Classics and drop the nice things you are saying.

[Larry Schramm]

PMO,

Your arguments are equivalent to pushing a rope uphill...and the rope was not dipped in water and frozen.

[Guest P.M.O.]

P.M.O.

I am not sure either of what you are advocating, but I will offer a few comments.

What Keith mentioned above is true, the Buick Club of America considers every McLaughlin, as if it were a Buick. This does not deminished the marque or history of the McLaughlin, as far as I can determine.

If you are talking about a Classic (with the capital C), you should check the CCCA recognition and then make your argument with them if you feel certain cars should be Recogoinized as a Classic. I do not think you will have any luck with the AACA, or Buick forums pushing the argument.

In the event you are not aware, or others may have an interest. The BCA Bugle magazine also lists Other Buick Clubs not affiliated with the BCA. One is;

McLaughlin Buick Club of Canada

Bob Ward

25 York St.

Sutton West, Ontario, Canada

LOE 1RO

905-473-9557

I have done many of these things and came across the Build document and passed it to the Cadillac Club.The Club had no idea Cadillac was built in Canada. The Buick clubs have blinders on too Bob Ward was very happy to receive the Build document as he too had no Idea McLaughlin built that many McLaughlin's.. I do hear the sarcastic under tones and this coming from ,as I thought educated smart people on this site. I feel as a Canadian on an All American Boys club this is falling on Deaf ears. This is like keeping the chaff with the wheat. I have made it clear McLaughlin in 1942 took his name off because his Cars were cookie cutter Fisher Body stampings. Just as A.P.Sloan wanted McLaughlin parked around the back. This AACA site is unified in most of its thinking ?Buick is what it is today because of the greatest North American Genius Durant.

[Guest P.M.O.]

PMO,

Your arguments are equivalent to pushing a rope uphill...and the rope was not dipped in water and frozen.

More like Canada in WW2 looking for help on the German front. This too was a lost cause.

[MCHinson]

P.M.O.

Did you read the link from the GM of Canada website that I posted earlier?

It is difficult to understand what you are saying, but without some actual documentation, I will have to trust the history from the GM of Canada website. Here are four paragraphs from that source that don't seem to agree with your thoughts on ths subject.

"When Sam McLaughlin, decided to expand his family's carriage business into the production of automobiles early in the last century, he went looking for a suitable car to build. The first vehicles he tried failed to live up to his exacting standards. Then, after a chance meeting with William Durant of the Buick Motor Company, he bought a 1906 'Model F' Buick from the Dominion Automobile and Supply Co. in Toronto, for $1,650. By the time he had reached Oshawa with it he decided "this is the car we're going to build."

Both McLaughlin and Durant were anxious to strike a deal, but they simply couldn't come to terms on the financial details. The McLaughlins decided to do it alone, designing and building a car of their own. Plans were well underway, and engine castings had been ordered for the first hundred cars when Arthur Milbraith, the engineer in charge of the project, became seriously ill.

Sam McLaughlin contacted Durant and asked him if he could lend them an engineer to complete the project. Instead, Durant himself came to Oshawa with a revived proposal for collaboration and the deal was done, according to Sam, "in about five minutes." The McLaughlins had obtained the rights to build Buick automobiles in Canada for 15 years.

The McLaughlin Motor Car Company was incorporated on November 20, 1907, with Sam McLaughlin as President, and production of 'Model F' McLaughlin-Buicks began soon after. The chassis and engines were Buick; the body based on Buick's design but built by McLaughlin with detail differences based on the company's long-established expertise as a coach-builder. "

[Rusty_OToole]

"Without BUICK there probably would not be much McLaughlin history - it would have been a fleeting company - it took the grat name of BUICK to even make the McLaughlin name recognizable."

Hardly. McLaughlin was the biggest manufacturer of horse drawn vehicles in the world, outside the US and had been in business very successfully for 40 years before they built their first car.

Did you ever think to ask how important GM of Canada's profits were to supporting General Motors during the depression? Or what about the role GM of Canada played in Britain's fight against the Nazis in WW2? Remember Canada declared war on Germany in September 1939, one week after England, and put their economy on a war footing at once. We sent thousands of trucks, airplanes, weapons etc to Britain before America entered the war more than 2 long years later.

The world does not end at the American border and other people have things to be proud of too.

[Guest P.M.O.]

There is another very important McLaughlin Buick, the 1939 Custom made for

that year's Royal Visit by King George VI & Queen Elizabeth.

It is on display and can be seen in an Ottowa museum. As for McLaughlin's

legacy being stolen by Buick, I doubt he would have stayed on as head of

GM of Canada and later Chairman of its board of directors if he felt he had

been cheated by Durant.

Samuel McLaughlin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Interesting to note that his brother founded Canada Dry,

the very famous beverage company.

P.M.O., for the life of me, I can't figure out what you're trying to prove with

this endless barrage of rants about McLaughlin and against Durant. There

must be a McLaughlin biography somewhere in a library that you can read to

learn more about his and early-GM history.

Contact the very active McLaughlin-Buick Club in Canada to further your

knowledge on the subject.

There is a lack of coherence in your posts that makes them impossible to

comprehend. Is this due to a language barrier, sloppy typing, or what?

We can not answer questions or participate in a conversation when we

don't know what the question is.

You risk being completely ignored if you don't communicate questions or

thoughts that can be easily understood, and that starts with you, not us.

Please consider these requests and suggestions.

TG

I too have read most and found how bad the information has been deleted. McLaughlin had no sons and chose to let General Motors of Canada Stand as an employer of his Canadian Workers. Three months after he died GM pulled Buick out of Oshawa. The thinking he had an agreement until he died for it to stay in Oshawa.. I have started many thinking about how if you do not know history you tend to repeat it. GM has gone under more than three times only to be pulled from the brink. Canada has or Had stayed on course from McLaughlin's start of the company. Our Government made us kiss the Presidents Ring to remain a General Motors Company. Nice I would argue most people on this site never check how to spell, so in my ignorance please try to check yours.

[Thriller]

First of all, could someone please provide me with information that McLaughlins or McLaughlin-Buicks ever had Chevrolet brakes? That one is new to me. I guess if we knew what constituted the chassis and drivetrain that McLaughlin bought from Buick, then we would know for certain.

The following is my understanding of things. I don't claim to have perfect memory nor perfect knowledge. However, I do know some of the facts and hope to get the rhetoric turned down a bit.

I am in agreement that the first ten years constituted the McLaughlin automobile. Yes, they used Buick chassis and drivetrains. However, since the bodies were built by McLaughlin, they did not display the Buick name, except perhaps on engine parts or similar. When the first contract expired in 1917/1918, Sam McLaughlin knew he wouldn't get a deal that was as lucrative, so they sold the company to General Motors, becoming a subsidiary. Following that, up to the war, they kept the McLaughlin name on them. The primary reason was that the "one grade and that the best" slogan was known in the Dominion and the Commonwealth. It was marketing back in the day. These cars are known as McLaughlin-Buicks (according to the McLaughlin Buick Club of Canada, of which I am a member) and are generally accepted as such. Key point to note is that starting with this second arrangement, the cars no longer had bodies built and designed by McLaughlin. They were the same as American Buicks, but had some different trim levels. If you take a look at my '29 Model 51 and an American Buick '29 Model 51, you will see only a few differences, primarily in badging. I've heard that GM of Canada may have continued initially with higher level materials in the interior, but don't recall seeing any definitive proof.

After WWII, the McLaughlin name was dropped from anywhere on the vehicle.

I think folks have covered most of the royal cars. Of course, these were modified from original (e.g. roof made higher to accommodate the king's hats). There may be others, but if we checked royal visits prior to WWII, I suspect we would find them.

The arrangement was advantageous overall. In the British Commonwealth, tariffs were lower than from countries outside the Commonwealth. So, GM had an outlet to Britain and other countries and GM of Canada had an export market in addition to the domestic market.

Now, as for judging, I am not aware of a 1908 - 1917 McLaughlin at a BCA meet for judging. Before we jump down throats, perhaps we should clarify with the BCA Head Judge. Cars from after becoming GM of Canada, but pre-war would probably be judged the same as Buicks. I know from local examples that by 1938, the differences were strictly badging. However, I have heard that there were other subtle differences into the 20s / early 30s (don't know when it ended).

I don't think anyone is trying to take away Canadian history, but PMO, I think you are a bit overextended by calling the 1918-1942 cars McLaughlins and not McLaughlin-Buicks.

To cover another point, I am not aware of any McLaughlins (whether based on Buick chassis or McLaughlin-Buicks) based on Chevrolet underpinnings. There were McLaughlin Electrics, based on Rauch & Lang chassis.

[Guest P.M.O.]

"Without BUICK there probably would not be much McLaughlin history - it would have been a fleeting company - it took the grat name of BUICK to even make the McLaughlin name recognizable."

Hardly. McLaughlin was the biggest manufacturer of horse drawn vehicles in the world, outside the US and had been in business very successfully for 40 years before they built their first car.

Did you ever think to ask how important GM of Canada's profits were to supporting General Motors during the depression? Or what about the role GM of Canada played in Britain's fight against the Nazis in WW2? Remember Canada declared war on Germany in September 1939, one week after England, and put their economy on a war footing at once. We sent thousands of trucks, airplanes, weapons etc to Britain before America entered the war more than 2 long years later.

The world does not end at the American border and other people have things to be proud of too.

I thank you for your understanding and knowledge you to might be chastised for your support on this subject. ( getting hot in here)

[MCHinson]

Doing a little bit more research, I found this nice article "My Eighty Years on Wheels By R. S. McLaughlin" This link takes you to page one. Most of the time period that has been discussed here is probably on the third and last page of the article. All three pages are interesting reading.

My Eighty Years on Wheels By R. S. McLaughlin

[38Buick 80C]

Derek,

You can find info about McLaughlin using Chevrolet Truck related items on the 37/38 Buicks they produced on the site 1937 and 1938 Buicks www.1937and1938Buicks.com under the Torque Tube link. There Jim Forshey has uploaded almost all the old Torque Tubes, I believe if you check the tech index you can find the specific issues that discussed the differences between a USA built and Canadian built cars including the use of Chevrolet truck 6 bolt drums.

This was on the small series Buick, the large series used the same drums as the USA built cars.

Edited January 24, 2011 by 38Buick 80C
changed word for clarity (see edit history)

[Guest P.M.O.]

First of all, could someone please provide me with information that McLaughlins or McLaughlin-Buicks ever had Chevrolet brakes? That one is new to me. I guess if we knew what constituted the chassis and drivetrain that McLaughlin bought from Buick, then we would know for certain.

The following is my understanding of things. I don't claim to have perfect memory nor perfect knowledge. However, I do know some of the facts and hope to get the rhetoric turned down a bit.

I am in agreement that the first ten years constituted the McLaughlin automobile. Yes, they used Buick chassis and drivetrains. However, since the bodies were built by McLaughlin, they did not display the Buick name, except perhaps on engine parts or similar. When the first contract expired in 1917/1918, Sam McLaughlin knew he wouldn't get a deal that was as lucrative, so they sold the company to General Motors, becoming a subsidiary. Following that, up to the war, they kept the McLaughlin name on them. The primary reason was that the "one grade and that the best" slogan was known in the Dominion and the Commonwealth. It was marketing back in the day. These cars are known as McLaughlin-Buicks (according to the McLaughlin Buick Club of Canada, of which I am a member) and are generally accepted as such. Key point to note is that starting with this second arrangement, the cars no longer had bodies built and designed by McLaughlin. They were the same as American Buicks, but had some different trim levels. If you take a look at my '29 Model 51 and an American Buick '29 Model 51, you will see only a few differences, primarily in badging. I've heard that GM of Canada may have continued initially with higher level materials in the interior, but don't recall seeing any definitive proof.

After WWII, the McLaughlin name was dropped from anywhere on the vehicle.

I think folks have covered most of the royal cars. Of course, these were modified from original (e.g. roof made higher to accommodate the king's hats). There may be others, but if we checked royal visits prior to WWII, I suspect we would find them.

The arrangement was advantageous overall. In the British Commonwealth, tariffs were lower than from countries outside the Commonwealth. So, GM had an outlet to Britain and other countries and GM of Canada had an export market in addition to the domestic market.

Now, as for judging, I am not aware of a 1908 - 1917 McLaughlin at a BCA meet for judging. Before we jump down throats, perhaps we should clarify with the BCA Head Judge. Cars from after becoming GM of Canada, but pre-war would probably be judged the same as Buick's. I know from local examples that by 1938, the differences were strictly badging. However, I have heard that there were other subtle differences into the 20s / early 30s (don't know when it ended).

I don't think anyone is trying to take away Canadian history, but PMO, I think you are a bit overextended by calling the 1918-1942 cars McLaughlins and not McLaughlin-Buicks.

To cover another point, I am not aware of any McLaughlins (whether based on Buick chassis or McLaughlin-Buicks) based on Chevrolet underpinnings. There were McLaughlin Electrics, based on Rauch & Lang chassis.

1907 was 1908 McLaughlin 15 years build with Buicks.Durant lost his job in 1910. McLaughlin built Chevrolet's started in 1915 for Durant and found he did not have the funds so sold out to Durant giving him %49 .Where did Durant get his money? not GM. Durant Traded his Chevrolet Stock for GM Stock and took over GM in 1918. Durant made McLaughlin, GM of Canada back to 1908? and bought out McLaughlin totally in 1921. So my thinking after 1921 on most McLaughlin cars belonged to GM but McLaughlin had his name on until 1942. I know as a member of Buick club you really had this known?

[Guest P.M.O.]

Derek,

You can find info about McLaughlin using Chevrolet Truck related items on the 37/38 Buicks they produced on the site 1937 and 1938 Buicks www.1937and1938Buicks.com under the Torque Tube link. There Jim Forshey has uploaded almost all the old Torque Tubes, I believe if you check the tech index you can find the specific issues that discussed the differences between a USA built and Canadian built cars including the use of Chevrolet truck 6 bolt drums.

This was on the small series Buick, the large series used the same drums as the USA built cars.

My Guess GM of Canada started building Chevrolet trucks in 1919. Steel for parts in 1937 1938 would have been used in Canada for the war that was starting in Europe that the United States caught on to after Pearl.1942 ?That is my guess Ha Ha Ha how stupid were those Canadians building Buick's with Chevrolet parts. God I feel Stupid.

[unimogjohn]

I have a 1923 McLaughlin Buick. And it is 95% Buick with some special items that were McLaughlin. Most of the items that were McLaughlin were a bit more finished and refined than on the US built cars. Both the body and the engine on my car were made and built in Canada. Major and most minor parts interchange between Canada and US versions.

Here are some of the differences between cars of the same year and model.

Rear tire carrier: McLaughlin - cast iron like on earlier US Buicks; Buick - stamped steel

Dash: McLaughlin - wooden; Buick - stamped steel

Gauges: McLaughlin - all white faced; Buick - all black faced

Gauges: McLaughlin - Water temp added; Buick - temp on radiator only

Interior: McLaughlin - Leather throughout; Buick - embossed leather like material

Steering Wheel: McLaughlin - natural wood and metal spokes; Buick - wood, which was usually painted

Radiator Surround: McLaughlin - plated; Buick - painted

Battery: McLaughlin - on running board; Buick - under floor

Top: McLaughlin - different design/more elegant, exposed wooden frame, plated hinges; Buick - steel frame, painted hinges.

Here are a couple of pics if you are interested.

[Dave Mellor NJ]

Maybe I should stay out of this post, but I think the Brewster Buicks like the Brewster Fords are CCCA eligible as well as some 90 series Buicks. If you intend to petition the CCCA to accept the Mclaughlins(Buicks or not),you might want to mention that. Also, I think The CCCA's guidelines only include the years 1925-48 so pre-25 is a moot issue.

[sfair]

What about the McLaughlin "light six" which had no Buick parts, but was a virtual clone of the same year Oakland? A summation of parts purchased here and there to be assembled into a complete automobile....

[Guest andy2755x]

An interesting read this thread is!

A lot of intersting thoughts

To throw a new hat in the ring

As an Australian and Celebrating Buicks as the great cars they are/were

Officially we havent had Buicks here (down under) for around 60 years except for private imports.(The First Holden car was a Buick first. 48-215)

We have Holdens. Holdens go wordwide and Australia is still proftable for Generous Motors we are in expansion mode.

Holdens go to Seth Africa marketed as Chevs, Pontiacs in the USA, Vauxhalls in England and our Statesmans go to the Middle East as either Buicks or Cadillacs can't remember but Australian cars go everywhere except as a Holdens. Check the Vin number of your modern car it might be a Holden/Buick/Chev etc made in Australia. GMH do make cars for lefty drive countries.

Originally Holden and Frost were Carriage & Harness makers in Adelaide from the 1850's a really old company (gives Mc Laughlin a run for their money.)

Holdens really started making bodies for lots of cars around 1914 but by the mid twenties they were GM HOLDEN and building around 70,000 bodies a year for many auto makers' cars. eg Fords, Austins, GM brands USA independants, etc

Do you guys have any imported original /restored etc cars from Australia there?

It would be very interesting to see you Judge a Vintage or Classic Holden bodied Buick.

A Right hand drive car possibly with Chev or Vauxhall Brakes, who knows?

let alone the right hand drive McLaughlin Buick, or a USA Buick with maple leaves on the engine castings. (replacement parts used? ).

I can tell you it just makes it harder to replace stuff and identify originality.

I have no Idea what these dilemas are other than a piece of engineering mastery, and an old Buick that is to be celebrated as part of historical significance no matter where it was made, assembled and driven.

Our cars are driven on the wrong side of the car/road to Nth America is this bad?(would it affect a car in USA Judging?)

Just a few interesting thoughts for Buick/ Holden collectors now and of the future.

Regards

Andy

[Guest P.M.O.]

Maybe I should stay out of this post, but I think the Brewster Buicks like the Brewster Fords are CCCA eligible as well as some 90 series Buicks. If you intend to petition the CCCA to accept the Mclaughlins(Buicks or not),you might want to mention that. Also, I think The CCCA's guidelines only include the years 1925-48 so pre-25 is a moot issue.

This is my point with McLaughlin Moot don't cut it. H Brunn found himself to be a great designer of Buick and many other companies and ended at Ford. This is odd that Brunn and McLaughlin studded and apprenticed at H H Babcock. Brunn quitting and became known as a great designer and R S McLaughlin continued on to build his cars to be known as a Builder of Buick's and Not McLaughlin's? Then found to be not a great designer but a Canadian that had no Idea how to build his own cars only Buick's. Has any one out there listening?

[Guest P.M.O.]

An interesting read this thread is!

A lot of intersting thoughts

To throw a new hat in the ring

As an Australian and Celebrating Buicks as the great cars they are/were

Officially we havent had Buicks here (down under) for around 60 years except for private imports.(The First Holden car was a Buick first. 48-215)

We have Holdens. Holdens go wordwide and Australia is still proftable for Generous Motors we are in expansion mode.

Holdens go to Seth Africa marketed as Chevs, Pontiacs in the USA, Vauxhalls in England and our Statesmans go to the Middle East as either Buick's or Cadillacs can't remember but Australian cars go everywhere except as a Holden's. Check the Vin number of your modern car it might be a Holden/Buick/Chev etc made in Australia. GMH do make cars for lefty drive countries.

Originally Holden and Frost were Carriage & Harness makers in Adelaide from the 1850's a really old company (gives Mc Laughlin a run for their money.)

Holdens really started making bodies for lots of cars around 1914 but by the mid twenties they were GM HOLDEN and building around 70,000 bodies a year for many auto makers' cars. eg Fords, Austins, GM brands USA independants, etc

Do you guys have any imported original /restored etc cars from Australia there?

It would be very interesting to see you Judge a Vintage or Classic Holden bodied Buick.

A Right hand drive car possibly with Chev or Vauxhall Brakes, who knows?

let alone the right hand drive McLaughlin Buick, or a USA Buick with maple leaves on the engine castings. (replacement parts used? ).

I can tell you it just makes it harder to replace stuff and identify originality.

I have no Idea what these dilemas are other than a piece of engineering mastery, and an old Buick that is to be celebrated as part of historical significance no matter where it was made, assembled and driven.

Our cars are driven on the wrong side of the car/road to Nth America is this bad?(would it affect a car in USA Judging?)

Just a few interesting thoughts for Buick/ Holden collectors now and of the future.

Regards

Andy

We in Canada McLaughlin built so the steering wheel would work in both England and where it was wrong for us Forign you might say and the cars Holden built for the USA must have been the same. (OH by the way this is not a Contest) it is more like separating McLaughlin cars from Buick. Holden could not do that would be my Question to you.

[Guest P.M.O.]

What about the McLaughlin "light six" which had no Buick parts, but was a virtual clone of the same year Oakland? A summation of parts purchased here and there to be assembled into a complete automobile....

How about McLaughlin building OAKLAND from1921 to1930 it would seem like a good idea to use your imagination?

[MCHinson]

P.M.O.,

I don't know quite what you expect here. You seem to be mad at the world and want to argue with us because you don't think that McLaughlin has been treated fairly in the History books. I don't think that anybody here wrote any of the history books.

You asked "Has any one out there listening? Have you been listening?

I have posted a link to McLaughlin's own words... here it is again:

My Eighty Years on Wheels By R. S. McLaughlin

When I posted his McLaughlin's own version of history, you simply ignored it. You continued to argue another point with others, but failed to respond to my concern that McLaughlin's memory of his life seems different from your version of his life story.

It is interesting reading, you should read it.

[Guest andy2755x]

PMO,

What is interesting about the past is that body builders all over the world found Buicks to be a good standard for the basis of their cars as did Durrant of GM fame.

In the past in Australia a Holden bodied car was Shunned as the imported car was seen to be more desireable.

It was found on some of the lesser value cars that more was given by Holdens than the original manufacturers eg; Ford tourers with external door handles, Rugby's with GM type VV ventilator windsceens where none existed on imported bodies.

In recent years Vintage and Classic Holden bodied cars are now celebrated and accepted with pride by owners, this should be the case with McLaughlin Buicks. Celebrate the uniqueness and similarity, what a great talking point two or more cars the same year and make but different .

The steel bodied cars of the thirties hold some reverence here now due to the engineering and cleverness of Holdens to make two basic body styles fit from Chevs to LaSalles, Studebakers to Vauxhalls and to be done with in model and calender years. Unbelivable when you think about it. Not to mention the Sloper sedans.

If the Badge on the front says Buick the engine is Buick then thats what is regardless of what local content and body it's still a Buick.

Lets preserve as many as we can.

Regards

Andy