Replacing ICM

[heygibb]

I am troubleshooting a starting issue I am having and have spent considerable time reading of others' solutions. I have never replaced the coil and have concluded from the seepage I see below my ICM that it wouldn't hurt to replace my original. I want a new unit and decided to go w/ Jacobs. This is the one I am looking at

JEGS Performance Products 40125 JEGS Buick DIS Coil Pack

If I order this unit for a '90 vehicle, is there any question that it will fit?

I seem to remember cautionary comments about making sure replacement units will fit properly before ordering due to changes between the Magnavox and Delco mounting surfaces. Should I feel confident in ordering this model for my car?

Thanks

[Guest Mc_Reatta]

This is just the coil pack, not the ICM itself. Your ooze and probably your problem is with the ICM underneath the coils not the coils.

Definitely recommend going with the Padgett Delco ICM replacement mod.

Get one from a junk yard so you get the mounting plate.

Check the ignition parts on a site like AdvanceAutoParts.com to see the difference between the coil pack and the ICM. The ICM is where the electronics are, and is where the ooze is coming from.

[heygibb]

Thank you for educating me about the difference between the ICM and the coils.

As to what to do now, I have tried removing the coil wires, one at at time, w/ the engine running, to see if any were faulty. Every one of them caused the engine to falter as I removed it, so I was not completely sold on the coils being the problem. From what you recommend, I might only need a new ICM. However, if I were to upgrade to the Delco coils, I'd need the different ICM/adapter plate for that. That's how I understand it from reading Padgett's page (Padgett's web page). Does it make sense to make the change completely, even if my current coils seem to be working? I understand the Delco units produce more current, but if mine are still firing, is a change needed? What kind of money will I be spending at the u pull it?

Thanks

[Ronnie]

I bought the Delco ICM with coils and plate for $35.00.

[heygibb]

I bought the Delco ICM with coils and plate for $35.00.

That sounds real good. I'll hope to have the same kind of luck. I guess the Jacobs coils will go on standby status.

Thanks

[Ronnie]

Before you go to the yard draw a diagram of the shape of the connector plug that goes into the ICM (or take the ICM with you) so you get one that will fit your Reatta. Some models of Buicks had different connectors on the ICM.

[heygibb]

OK

I'll see if I can find any sources for the part. Thanks for that tip.

[DAVES89]

Just go to Car-Part.com--Used Auto Parts Market and key in 1992 Pontiac Transport with the 3.8 motor. You will have countless options. Or tell the counter guy you need a coil pack/ICM from a 1992 Pontiac Transport with the 3.8 motor and you will get the right one...

[padgett]

A spare ignition pack (plate/ICM/Coils) is something I just carry in every Reatta. They tend to die suddenly and having one to swap can provide a quick diagnosis. I also usually just put nuts on the two bolts you can reach.

Also the ICM/coils were in 3800s clear up into the 2008 model year making them easy to find, it is just the mounting plate that was only used for a few years and they do not go bad.

It is really a win-win situation to swap in the Delco.

The keyed ICM connector was because GM had two ignitions that looked identical - one for the 3300 and another for the 3800. They are very different engines but if you junque a lot it helps to carry a connector.

[heygibb]

Thank you all so much. You've saved me some dollars, as well as explained the evolution of this component. I was thinking about buying two setups while I was at it. Reading elsewhere, it's mentioned that I get a hotter plug for the Delco coils and gap ~60-65. Is that necessary or only recommended?

Thanks again.

[padgett]

I use only AC Rapidfire plugs, #3 gapped at .045" for the Magnavox and #14 gapped at .060" with the Delco. Excellent at least 8mm spark plug wires are necessary

[heygibb]

Before you go to the yard draw a diagram of the shape of the connector plug that goes into the ICM (or take the ICM with you) so you get one that will fit your Reatta. Some models of Buicks had different connectors on the ICM.

I finally had time to take a trip to the "u pull it" yard today. It was kind of reminded me of Easter as a kid, looking for eggs. The yard I visited had no idea of what was out there or where it might be. So I paid my dollar (yes, there was an admission fee) and set out to find me a Delco coil pack. After about 15 minutes of missing or leaking coil/ICM units, I found a 93 Riv with the complete engine. Upon removing the coil pack, I noticed the connector had a pin missing. I decided I'd take a chance that it would work anyway and bought it for the outlandish price of $15. I hooked it up and she started right up and sounded pretty strong. I haven't taken it on the road yet, but so far so good. Does anyone happen to know what the missing pin might go to? It's the third from the hold down screw on the left side of the connector. Anyway, I wanted to thank everyone for their help on sourcing this out. I kind of enjoyed the hunt. I'm sure I'll go again and "mark" a few more cars for future needs.

[padgett]

"Thid from the left" is a bit vague however there are fourteen pins so the third from the middle on one side would be pin E (white) which is marked as the tachometer signal. Third on the other side would be K (brown/white) - cam signal to ECM. Either of these should trigger an error code if missing.

So if the tach is working and you do not get an error soon after startup, I would not be concerned. I do have a few synapses claiming that one was not used (tach lead ?) but just do not recall.

[heygibb]

I marked the pin w/ an arrow on my pic, but see now that black doesn't really show up too well w/out enlarging it.Thanks for the diagram. I just checked and the tach is working. From the diagram, that pin is important. I get no dash warnings. Don't have time to drive it this morning, but will later. I have a brake fluid leak somewhere, ...dripping down onto the tranny pan. If the car drives, I'll cautiously hope it's no big deal.

Thanks.

[Guest Mc_Reatta]

Don't worry ..... Be Happy.....

That pin (K) is unused in the connector diagram in the 90 FSM. Another error in the FSM found?

Edited February 16, 2011 by Mc_Reatta (see edit history)

[wws944]

.... I kind of enjoyed the hunt. I'm sure I'll go again and "mark" a few more cars for future needs.

Warning: It is a slippery slope. There are probably a bunch of spares you can raid off that '93 Riv. Get 'em while you can. Half life of P&P cars around here is about month before they get crushed - depending on the size of the yard.

Higher cost of living here in California. Admission is $2, and I think the whole ignition module setup, coils, plate, and all, is more like $45.

[padgett]

Interesting. Now that I look closely it is obvious that the diagram I posted earlier was not a Reatta 3800 but for the earlier "3" code (Reatta is "C") engine with a single ring harmonic balancer. I can tell because the earlier CPS has three connections while the dual ring unit had four. Enclosed is the real diagram with what it connects to.

[heygibb]

Don't worry ..... Be Happy.....

That pin (K) is unused in the connector diagram in the 90 FSM. Another error in the FSM found?

I think I will! Appreciate the affirmation of the pin's purpose.

[heygibb]

Warning: It is a slippery slope. There are probably a bunch of spares you can raid off that '93 Riv. Get 'em while you can. Half life of P&P cars around here is about month before they get crushed - depending on the size of the yard.

Higher cost of living here in California. Admission is $2, and I think the whole ignition module setup, coils, plate, and all, is more like $45.

Your experience sounds like wise advice. I did grab the console's locking mechanism. The yard threw that in at no cost. I looked over the engine and all the electronics are still there. Should I grab the MAF and other things now? I checked out the serpentine belt, because I need one, but it was cracking like mine is.

[NCReatta]

I checked out the serpentine belt, because I need one, but it was cracking like mine is.

You'd be much better off just getting one from Advance. Rather than removing an old one, and then putting it on again... too much trouble in my book...

[wws944]

Your experience sounds like wise advice. I did grab the console's locking mechanism. The yard threw that in at no cost. I looked over the engine and all the electronics are still there. Should I grab the MAF and other things now? I checked out the serpentine belt, because I need one, but it was cracking like mine is.

Some things are best bought new. Tune up parts are commonly available because GM built a zillion 3800s. So a serpentine belt is something I would only buy new. They are not very expensive.

MAF? Some would say yes.

Might also consider:

A bunch of the electronics - such as the IPC, headlight switch (yes it is different than the '90 Reatta. But will work in a pinch sans fog lights.) Spare window, seat, and door lock switches.

Does it have a CD player? Does your Reatta? If it does and yours doesn't, you can get those too. Warning: the wiring harness between the stereo and the CD player is a PITA to extract intact. Plan on disassembling part of the dash and spending some quality time with a pry bar. Second warning: The CD player might not work. (One clue is if an aftermarket stereo was installed.) If it doesn't, you then have a core to give to a repair shop.

If the interior is the same color as yours (e.g., sapphire blue), and the console arm rest is in good shape, you could get the arm rest for the built-in cup holder.

Fake wood bezels for the instrument panel and console? Some like the look and others don't. I think it depends a lot on your color combo.

If it has the Grand Touring package, the wheels are the same as the '91 Reatta.

Edited February 17, 2011 by wws944 (see edit history)

[NCReatta]

heygibb, I wish I could find a Riviera in my part of the state.. Never see them, much less Reattas. Carpe diem my friend.

[heygibb]

Some things are best bought new. Tune up parts are commonly available because GM built a zillion 3800s. So a serpentine belt is something I would only buy new. They are not very expensive.

MAF? Some would say yes.

Might also consider:

A bunch of the electronics - such as the IPC, headlight switch (yes it is different than the '90 Reatta. But will work in a pinch sans fog lights.) Spare window, seat, and door lock switches.

Does it have a CD player? Does your Reatta? If it does and yours doesn't, you can get those too. Warning: the wiring harness between the stereo and the CD player is a PITA to extract intact. Plan on disassembling part of the dash and spending some quality time with a pry bar. Second warning: The CD player might not work. (One clue is if an aftermarket stereo was installed.) If it doesn't, you then have a core to give to a repair shop.

If the interior is the same color as yours (e.g., sapphire blue), and the console arm rest is in good shape, you could get the arm rest for the built-in cup holder.

Fake wood bezels for the instrument panel and console? Some like the look and others don't. I think it depends a lot on your color combo.

If it has the Grand Touring package, the wheels are the same as the '91 Reatta.

I was thinking the belts were kind of pricey. I know the one on my truck was $30 or so. I was sitting there looking at it and thought I'd check it out. I would not go to the yard just to get an old belt, but it was worth a look-see to me.

I'm thinking of going back for some of the sensors. The console would fit the Reatta, but it's the fake burnished wood stuff, so I'm not interested. It does have the CD player in the console, which I had never seen, so that was kind of cool. I'm skipping on that since I have one in my radio. The passenger seat was decent but the wrong color, blue. Maybe I'll look into the door switches and headlight switch. I didn't think of it at the time, but do Rivs have the same type antenna as Reattas? What about wiper motor?

Does anyone know if plug wires deteriorate while not being used? They looked fairly decent, visually.

Thanks for your suggestions though. I felt lucky to look up and see the "R" hood ornament on that car, having seen the Riviera referenced so many times here.

[heygibb]

heygibb, I wish I could find a Riviera in my part of the state.. Never see them, much less Reattas. Carpe diem my friend.

Hey Marck,

I did feel lucky when I saw that car. It's too bad the seats were the wrong color and driver's side bad. They had the 16 way adjustments. If I tried to put something like that in my ride, is the wiring already there? My seats are the standard adjustment type.

Thanks again for chiming in. Enjoy this weather, bud. The sun has been nice to see again.

Tim

[NCReatta]

Hey Marck,

I did feel lucky when I saw that car. It's too bad the seats were the wrong color and driver's side bad. They had the 16 way adjustments. If I tried to put something like that in my ride, is the wiring already there? My seats are the standard adjustment type.

Thanks again for chiming in. Enjoy this weather, bud. The sun has been nice to see again.

Tim

The wiring's all there. just plug and play. There will be a small white connector with two wires coming out of it, and a black cover under your seat. Just remove the cover, and plug in. If the seats are leather, you could just paint them with SEM. Are both sides 16-way? i think that may have been an option on some Rivis. The stitching will be different, and may make it hard to dye. Might look into it though.

Defiantly enjoying this weather. Tomorrow's supposed to get into the 70's! :D

[DAVES89]

About 4 years ago a Riv. came in the local u pick yard with 16 ways on both sides. Problem was they were gray and cloth. They were very nice.

I have a Red/Tan and didn't see the need.

Fast forward two years, bought a Black/Gray. I wish now I would have bought them...

[wws944]

I think on a non-convertible Reatta, a Riv center console would be an interesting swap. The difference between it and the Reattas is that it has an extra light, ash tray, and cigarette lighter on the back for rear passengers. In a Reatta, this would provide extra illumination for the cubby area, and also an extra place to plug in electronic devices. The little wiring harness for the lighter and lights is extended for the Riv, but plugs/plays just fine in the Reatta. (I've tried it.) Not an option in the convertible though - because the rear of the console almost butts against the back of the passenger compartment.

Seats have a different pattern between the two cars, even though the undercarriage appears the same. If the Reatta seats are trashed anyway, and one doesn't care about 400 point perfection, maybe Riv seats would be fine. One advantage of Riv seats is that they have slots in the rear for maps and magazines and stuff. Again, probably not very usable in a convertible though.

Finally, there is the issue of color. There is some overlap between Riv interior colors and Reatta interior colors. But each has some unique colors and it changes from year to year. For example I was looking for a decent garnet red armrest w/cupholder for my car. Had to be from a '91 or '92 Riv. A '93 would not work because they changed the red to 'ruby red'. (Same with '91 Reatta 'flame red'.) Finally have two of them - one in very good condition, the other 'ok but not great'. But it took some searching.

Edited February 18, 2011 by wws944 (see edit history)