1913 Metz 22

[Guest Andy13]

Thanks everyone. In researching the car I have travelled to Waltham, Mass. and L.A., California to see examples of Metzs. As well as scanning the internet for photos, etc. I have seen the 1913 Metz painted a variety of colors; white and red, orange, and various blues, etc. Seems like many restorations were done to the taste of the owner. The Waltham Museum has a 1913 Metz that is mostly intact. More importantly!!! The caretaker of this car (Al) showed me a basement that has a huge supply of Metz parts!! Body panels, frames, engine and drive train parts etc. SADLY, all these parts seem to be rusting away and sinking into the dirt floor. The museum has niether the funds nor personel to catalogue and save these parts at present. If I'm ever lucky enough to win the lottery, I'll mount a rescue effort to save these parts.

Andy

[Guest Andy13]

Here are photos of the Waltham Museum Metz and some from the parts "dungeon."

[Guest Andy13]

Few more photos of Waltham Metz.

[Guest Mochet]

I began installing the top cloth on my Metz with the help of the E.W. Stitts article in a 1960s Antique Automobile, and the contemporary advice of David Coco, master upholsterer. Here are a couple shots of what I did today. Previously, I covered the bows with drill cloth, doing my best to keep out the sags and folds. Next, I made the side pads using two, 3.75" jute webbing strips sewn into drill cloth (drill cloth is the cloth sold by Haartz and other suppliers for top work). I carefully aligned the bows and stretched the side strips, tacking them in place. These strips will be stuffed with cotton later, and then sewn shut. To paraphrase David Coco, 'it's easier to show than tell' how it's done. I'm an amateur, but I'll show you how I'm doing it anyway. I've never seen this process illustrated clearly, so maybe this will be of some use.

Phil

First photo shows padding strip tacked to the bows. This is the webbing that aligns the bows. The drill cloth is sewn to the outer edges of the 2 jute webbing strips. It will later be padded with cotton and hand-sewn shut.

Here is me tacking down the strip. I used 2X10s supported around the car to access the top area. I think I dropped as many tacks as I hammered in.

The strips in place with drill cloth folded over top, though no cotton padding added yet. I used ratchet straps to hold the bows tight. Note the wood props I used to hold the rear bow in position. (My 1905 Maxwell, subject of a future blog, is next door).

Edited March 10, 2013 by Mochet (see edit history)

[Luv2Wrench]

Looking good! I like the idea of the 2x10s as a mini-scaffold.

[trimacar]

Nice! Access to the top is always an issue, I have a 1909 Reo in my shop now for a top, just the body, so it's working at standing height, what a pleasure! A scaffold, even mini, is tricky, I've done it before, but you have to ALWAYS remember that you're standing on a board in space....one step back to admire work is painful...

You're moving along well. Make sure to secure pad to the middle bow, you may be doing that in picture 2. The two flaps for the pad, pull the outside/bottom one up, then fold in the inner/top one, so that top "flows" over it. Padding is crucial, add a little more than you think is correct as it will compress, hope and assume you're using cotton batting. Cut larger than pad in all directions, then by hand feather the cotton out on front and rear and edges. I used to own a cotton gin, and one would take cotton and pull it apart to test "fair to middlin"..."...so in working on top, you press your hand down more or less where you want the feather, then with thumb and index finger of the other hand pull to separate cotton fibers...and I'm quoted correctly, I could show you in 5 seconds, but to 'splain is hard....you don't want the top to end up showing the bows on the curves, what one person called the "starved horse look", i.e ribs....

[Jerry Alexander]

Phil/Andy: I thank you so much for sharing your information. Andy, if I were to win the lottery I to would donate to the preservation of these cars and the museum. What a shame! It would be better for the parts to go out to people who are now rebuilding these cars so the parts can be put in use thus saved. I am not saying give them away, but sell them at a reasonable price. As we know parts are hard to come by. Having the parts kept in a better environment would be preferable, of course.

Phil, impressive what you are doing. Great work.

[West Peterson]

Luv and Phil

I have detailed photos of this 1912 model that appeared in the November/December 2005 issue of Antique Automobile (more photos than what appeared in the issue). If you'd like me to email them to you, let me know.

Send me a PM with your address.

[Guest Andy13]

Looks great Phil. Very impressive!

[Guest Mochet]

Today, I picked up my new Oil-fill funnel from Messner's tin shop in Denver, PA. Mr. Messner, 87, has been a tinsmith since the '50s. His great old workshop looks like a corner of the Metz factory. He made my spout from measurements and photos I gave him. I supplied a brass, 1/2" pipe nipple for the base. Here are a few photos. He says he could make more spouts. Contact me for more info.

Phil

[trimacar]

How's the top coming, send us an update of pictures! The Reo top is moving along, using a really neat fabric, a replicated Pantasote, black on outside, under side is whipcord (striped black/brown)....quite unique and very original...

[Guest Mochet]

Still futzing with our sewing machine, David. Hope to really get to sewing next week. Can you post a photo of that top material? Who makes it?

Phil

[Guest Mochet]

No longer futzing; our new sewing machine works well, and Lucille cut and sewed the rear panels today. I made paper patterns which she copied. The seams were held with double-sided tape and large paper clips as she ran them through the machine. I attached three Common Sense fasteners on the bottom of each and tacked them to the rear bow as tightly as I could. A little adjusting, and they look OK to me. Next is the central rear panel which has the window. I'm planning to do this with two layers of cloth: the top fabric and a layer of drill cloth.

Phil

[Luv2Wrench]

Eagerly following this. Please keep those patterns!

[Jerry Alexander]

Looking very nice! Thanks for the update and pictures.

[trimacar]

Here's a picture of the top material I mentioned. It's a special run by Haartz, and as far as I know the only non-grained black with whipcord backing in existence on a roll right now. I have 40 yards of it, of which about half is spoken for on two current projects.

[Guest Mochet]

Very attractive material, David. It's interesting to see something different. Don't forget to take pictures of your topping job!

Phil

[Guest Mochet]

Our next step is the rear curtain which rolls up and has a diamond-shape window. Originally, this window was celluloid. Lacking a source for this today, I used 30-gauge clear vinyl (30 gauge = .030"). Here, I used a method described by Mark Hood, who does boat upholstery. Here is an interesting article he posted. It's a pretty touchy process for beginners like us, but basically you cut a paper pattern of your window size, then cut the clear vinyl 1.5" or so larger. This gets stuck between the two fabrics (bow drill cloth and vinyl top material in my case). The two cloths are stapled around the edge to insure alignment, and the window is hemmed around its outer perimeter first. We then cut out the cloth about 1/2" smaller than the window opening on both sides and fold each side under. Another seam is sewn close to the edge to get the final opening size (6" in this case). Next we'll hem the sides and bottom of the curtain.

We used white tape to guide our sewing. The first photo shows the clear window stuck down with double-sided "bias tape", the paper not peeled off yet. Next we see the outer material with the paper pattern showing where the window will be cut out. Finally, Lucille sews the outer seam to make our three-layer sandwich. I could sew it, I suppose, but I'd prefer to blame her if anything goes wrong.

Phil

Edited March 28, 2013 by Mochet (see edit history)

[trimacar]

As I've said, there's always another way to skin a cat.

One slight modification to this procedure saves all the pinning and stapling and paper.

Mark the outer pattern on your material, slightly larger than the piece of plastic you'll use, and sew the two pieces of material together along those marks. Lay the clear plastic over the sew lines, mark slightly inside on clear plastic with marker and cut to size. Now cut both layers of fabric to half inch from sew line, insert plastic, and sew your edges as you describe.

I usually don't cut the inner fabric, so only finished edge is outside. Then you cut the inner fabric by holding a single edge razor blade along despaired cut line, pull up fabric against it, move blade and repeat....

Your job's coming along nicely!

[Guest Andy13]

Great work. Maybe I should contract Lucille when we redo our top.

Phil a basic question for you. Are you going to paint all the floor boards of your car? Our are currently painted black. Many pics of survivor cars seems to show the floor boards un-painted. I suppose a "judge" in an event would not know the difference, but do you think that they were originally left plain? Maybe others in this forum have an opinion also.

Andy.

[Guest Mochet]

My opinion is the floor was covered in gray or brown linoleum. Here's an image of the Bonhams Metz floor, a fairly original car. The floorboards probably were painted black underneath.

Phil

[Guest Mochet]

Moving along on the new top... The side pads and rear panels are in place, so we're now fitting the three top panels. The seams for these lie above the pads, and are not visible from below. I attached a cotton cord along each pad where I want the seam to be, and marked each cord every 12 inches.

I then lay the roughly-cut central panel atop the bows and stretch it out as much as possible. I then put a center mark front and rear. I transferred the cord marks to the cloth, as well as the bow locations. The cloth panel gets cut about 1/2" beyond the seam (cord), as you see in the photo. The idea behind the markings is to get an accurate fit along the bows, which are not level with each other.

I then removed the central panel, and repeated the operation with the two side panels. These marks are where the panels are joined. A little notch is cut at each mark to make them easier to see. The two connected marks indicate the center bow location.

The pieces are sewn as you see them above along the lines drawn (these lines are where the cotton cord was located). It is not possible to align things perfectly, but we tried to be close. Here is Lucille aligning a side panel. We held them together with bulldog clips and paper clips. Note the side panel is wider than necessary, as it will be trimmed later.

We now have the pieces joined with one seam. A second seam is added to each panel by folding the joined pieces inward toward the center of the top, and they are run through the sewing machine again. More later...

Phil

Edited April 20, 2013 by Mochet (see edit history)

[Guest Mochet]

Continuing work on the Metz windscreen...

The Metz windshield seems unique in that it curves away from the driver, a feature that has confused me in assembly a couple times. Also, how they sewed the cloth over the steel framework for the windshield had me thinking. I decided to sew the fabric and then slip the metal bars into the assembly and bolt them together. I assume that's what Metz did as well. To refresh the reader's memory, I got the framework made by a fabricator in California who had an original to copy. I based the cloth assembly on an original car like mine. I then assembled the windshield frame on my car and traced it on some cardboard, using this pattern to cut the cloth. The front is Haartz top cloth, and the backing is the matching drill cloth; the same fabrics I used on the top. I used 30-gauge (.030") clear vinyl for the clear "glass" part. Originally, a much thinner celluloid was used, but I couldn't find that. It's almost complete, and I think it will look pretty good for our first attempt. Here are some recent photos of Lucille on the job.

We see the clear vinyl has been sewn in place, and we're fitting the pockets for the metal frame. The white roll of tape on top is "bias tape", a double-sided tape available in different widths. It's useful for holding down edges to be sewed. We use a white chalk-type pencil to mark the drill cloth where we wish to sew the seam. Black polyester thread was used with a tan color on the bobbin so it blends in with the black front and tan backing. Next, we'll see if it fits on the car!

Phil

Edited May 29, 2013 by Mochet (see edit history)

[MochetVelo]

The top and wind screen are about complete. Here are a couple pictures. No, not perfect, but it was fun to try it ourselves. Fabric, unlike wood and metal, has the characteristic of stretching and wrinkling. This made the project more challenging. Next, we'll make a cover for the top when it is down, plus we'll make some side curtains. These were all standard equipment with the Metz 22.

Phil

[Landman]

The top and wind screen are about complete. Here are a couple pictures. No, not perfect, but it was fun to try it ourselves. Fabric, unlike wood and metal, has the characteristic of stretching and wrinkling. This made the project more challenging. Next, we'll make a cover for the top when it is down, plus we'll make some side curtains. These were all standard equipment with the Metz 22.

Phil

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Looks fine to me.

[Jerry Alexander]

Phil, great job! That car looks brand new!! She is beautiful. You should be one proud person. My hat is off to you in restoring her back to life. My 1915 Model 22 does not have the two straps on the front to hold the top down. Nor does it have the fabric in front. I know I am anxious to see additional work on your car as you complete her. Any idea of when she will be cruising down the road? Again thanks for sharing!

[Guest Marruss]

What a great thread. I have been looking for some information to help me id a Metz that I am looking to buy. If the photos attach please feel welcome to pick it to bits.

supposed to be a '13 or '14. Looks like it has been made into a speedster. Not sure how original or good the restoration is as I know little about the Metz except what I am finding on the net.

[Jerry Alexander]

What a great thread. I have been looking for some information to help me id a Metz that I am looking to buy. If the photos attach please feel welcome to pick it to bits.

supposed to be a '13 or '14. Looks like it has been made into a speedster. Not sure how original or good the restoration is as I know little about the Metz except what I am finding on the net.

Thanks for the pictures of your "new" car! I really have no idea about the age of this car. From my limited knowledge I would guess it to be a Model 22 or have started life as a Model 22. People like Phil are much more knowledgeable than I. I also suggest you contact the Waltham Museum in Waltham, MA. Ask a gentleman by the name of "Al" to help you. He has a collection of these cars ready for display once the museum gets enough space for display. Also provide Al with the serial number stamped into the engine head as that will register your vehicle and also help in identifying it, too.

Good luck!

Jerry

[Guest Andy13]

Jerry is right. It does appear to have started life as a Metz 22. I can see from the pictures that it has been heavily altered in the restoration it received. The color is wrong. All Metz 22 cars where painted a dark blue with cream colored wheels. Also the headlights and search lights are not original Metz equipment. It appears to be a "bitsa" car. As in; "a bit of this and a bit of that." I am not sure if the Metz company ever made right hand drive cars. "Al" at the museum might be able to answer that. Does the car still have a friction drive system?

Andy

[Guest Andy13]

Jerry is right. It does appear to have started life as a Metz 22. I can see from the pictures that it has been heavily altered in the restoration it received. The color is wrong. All Metz 22 cars where painted a dark blue with cream colored wheels. Also the headlights and search lights are not original Metz equipment. It appears to be a "bitsa" car. As in; "a bit of this and a bit of that." I am not sure if the Metz company ever made right hand drive cars. "Al" at the museum might be able to answer that. Does the car still have a friction drive system?

Andy

[Luv2Wrench]

Try and find the serial number on the engine block. If the car is earlier than 1913, it could be closer to original.

[Guest Marruss]

Jerry is right. It does appear to have started life as a Metz 22. I can see from the pictures that it has been heavily altered in the restoration it received. The color is wrong. All Metz 22 cars where painted a dark blue with cream colored wheels. Also the headlights and search lights are not original Metz equipment. It appears to be a "bitsa" car. As in; "a bit of this and a bit of that." I am not sure if the Metz company ever made right hand drive cars. "Al" at the museum might be able to answer that. Does the car still have a friction drive system?

Andy

Thanks Andy,

Here are a few more photo's. I am thinking of giving it a miss and going back to a couple of mid '20's cars I have been looking at.

I really like the idea of the Metz but I am guessing it has limited value the way it is

[Guest Marruss]

Thanks Jeff.

it is on the other side of the Country so have not seen it in the flesh yet.

From what he tells me it has a'13 motor in it and a spare motor from a '14.

I read somewhere that the outside lever was '12 and went to the middle of the floor in '13?

Russell

[Jerry Alexander]

I think the car is sort of neat. I encourage some more research on it, easier said than done. It is a friction drive for sure. And it could be a mix of years car. My friend Ian Hellings in Momence, IL has a 1913 Torpedo Metz. It is painted light blue and white. I do not know if those are correct colors or not. My point being someone may have just gotten a bit creative by painting an original Metz the non historic color. The Torpedo is a different designed car too. Don't give up on yours. It could be just unique! As if owning a Metz isn't unique by itself. Good luck.

Jerry

[Guest Andy13]

Russell, From the other pictures I can tell that it is missing all the mud/dust cover pans that go on the bottom of the car and cover the engine and transmission. It also appears to be missing the chain guards. These items usually go missing at some point in the cars life. Our car is missing the chain guards, but fortunately tat is all that we are missing. I am curious though. What is the owner asking for the car?

Andy.

[Guest Marruss]

Russell, From the other pictures I can tell that it is missing all the mud/dust cover pans that go on the bottom of the car and cover the engine and transmission. It also appears to be missing the chain guards. These items usually go missing at some point in the cars life. Our car is missing the chain guards, but fortunately tat is all that we are missing. I am curious though. What is the owner asking for the car?

Andy.

He is asking $25,000 for it. About ballpark for a restored vintage/ veteran over here. T models seem to go for $18,000-$25,000 depending on age etc. He has offered to bring it over if full price achieved. Thats a $3,500 trip via the transport companies.

last few photo's attached

[Jerry Alexander]

"Bring it over"? From where to where? The pictures of the car look like it is really cleaned up and 'dressed up'. I am impressed with the photo of the engine. Was it entirely repainted? I hope you can track the history of this car then share the info. It would be very interesting. Shoot I'd like to do that with my 1915. But I do not know where to start. Maybe someone else has done this for their vehicle. If so some pointers would be appreciated.

[Guest Marruss]

"Bring it over"? From where to where? The pictures of the car look like it is really cleaned up and 'dressed up'. I am impressed with the photo of the engine. Was it entirely repainted? I hope you can track the history of this car then share the info. It would be very interesting. Shoot I'd like to do that with my 1915. But I do not know where to start. Maybe someone else has done this for their vehicle. If so some pointers would be appreciated.

Jerry,

I live in Australia on the South West Coast. The car is on the east coast in NSW. Probably about New York to Los Angeles type distance.

From what I can understand the car is being sold by the the son of the restorer. He finished the car after his father passed away. Just what was done when by who I am still trying to work out.

Russell

Sent from my iPad

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[Luv2Wrench]

Australia... now that changes everything. I was assuming that this was a US built car and I was evaluating it with that in mind. There are so many things that are different in these pictures, however, given that this car is in Australia, I'm not sure if 'different' is actually wrong. It could very well be how it was done in Australia. I've seen exactly 0 Australian built Metz cars prior to this one so this car could be 100% original and I wouldn't know. I've also notice a couple of key parts that are different, however, they don't seem to be from another car or fabricated. If I can get some time I'll go through the pictures and make a list of the things I've noticed.

[Jerry Alexander]

This is going to be interesting! I am looking forward to the following information about this car. I did not know the METZ was ever exported to any country. Learn something everyday. Thanks for sharing!!

Jerry