Powdercoating vs paint

[keiser31]

I may have read an answer to this before, but cannot remember...is there a point deduction if a frame is powdercoated instead of painted as originally done? The question is about a '31 Dodge in case that matters.

[Bhigdog]

How would they know??????????????????

[keiser31]

How would they know??????????????????

I can tell the difference.

[Bhigdog]

I can tell clear coat too but it doesn't matter, so says the rule book.............Bob

[Shop Rat]

I can tell clear coat too but it doesn't matter, so says the rule book.............Bob

There actually isn't anything listed under chassis that I could find, however this is listed under Exterior regarding finishes. It can be found on page 18 of the Judging Guidelines.

Exterior

2. A vehicle may be painted any authentic

color available for the model year of that

vehicle. Any type finish (lacquer, enamel,

acrylics, etc.) may be used if the final finish

simulates the original finish.

[keiser31]

Thank you all for the answers.

[FJD]

I would like to receive any input concerning powdercoating on antique vehicles. I have had several parts powdercoated and have run in to several points of contention. If anyone can help, I would appreciate some experienced input.

Several of my subcomponents are pieces of various materials, from thin formed sheetmetal pieces, heavy gauge metal parts and heavy cast pieces. I get quite a difference in the desired finish.

I have had transmission brackets, battery box brackets, brake backing plates, lower steering arms, front stabilizer mounting brackets, spring shackles, all powder coated. Using I assume the same brand of powder and lot number. also it is quite a job to sand it in preparation for another coat.

I find it quite frustrating as it seams as if the finish is different with each type of material. Some pieces appear clouded and slightly grayish. Some parts where do at different times and sometimes in a batch.

All pieces have been blasted, supposedly preped and then powdercaoted. Pieces with rust pitting pock marks have been filled with the HIGH temp lab metal, sanded smooth, which by the way works quite well after neing finished according to instructions.

Any one have an idea as to what might be wrong? I need to have consistency, the powdercoater is going to try an other supplier. Hopefully this is the solution to these issues.

Also what would be the appropriate gloss percentage without being over glossy aka overrestored appearance.

Thanks in advance for any help.

Edited December 27, 2010 by FJD (see edit history)

[DizzyDale]

Dear FJD,My powdercoating pal has 3 blacks,matte or flat,semi gloss and gloss.I gotta believe these 3 would work for anybody that being said i GUESS you could mix up different percentages of these powders and come up with something :eek::eek::eek:special.:eek::eek::eek:.diz

[trimacar]

Powder coating is a slippery slope. I just had some industrial powder coating done for a project (real work) that I'm managing. Looks great in white, the problem will be when the first chip comes along, the only way to touch up is with paint, and it'll never match. Plus, if water gets under the coating when chipped, it'll just start wicking it's way further and further under the coating.

I've never quite understood the fascination with powder coat and clear coat.

Nicely painted looks great and original on the frame and such.

Clear coat? What's the advantage? You put down a coat of color, then put "clear" over it. Well, saves paint cost, I guess, which is the minor cost in most cases of paint jobs. And, a bear to touch up, just like the powder coat.

I see so many cases of industrial control, where us Engineers use it just because we can and it's available. But, in the end, the modern stuff is just more complicated and brings a new set of problems with it.........

Happy New Year to all...

[ex98thdrill]

I may have read an answer to this before, but cannot remember...is there a point deduction if a frame is powdercoated instead of painted as originally done? The question is about a '31 Dodge in case that matters.

We've toyed with it, but never gotten up enough nerve to do it. I have done a fair amount of judging on chassis, and I have questioned it to several team captains out there and the most common reply that I get is "black is black." You might have a judge who will deduct, but more than likely you probably won't. My only concern with powdercoating is how well it fills in pits.

I had the exhaust manifolds ceramic coated on our fire truck well over 4 years ago, and I swear by ceramic coating. Those manifolds look the same as they did the day they went onto the engine, where high temp paint has done nothing but given me headaches.

We did have some of the splash pans powder coated so that when fluids drip down on the pans that it doesn't damage the finish, and we've had good luck with it.

If you do have your frame powder coated, you might want to leave all of the bolts in the frame when you send it out for powder coating.so that you can take them out and get them in when you go to hang brake lines, fuel lines, engine, transmission and body without having problems. Your best bet would be to at least mention it to the person doing the powdercoating to get their opinion.

[FJD]

I didn't mean to steal this thread and probably should have started a new one.

Thanks all for the replies. Even the powdercoater cannot reason why the different parts turn out differently, he believes that a powder with a burn out mixture will be the answer. He said that when the different materials are heated they reach the curing temp at different times and maybe over cured. I don't know. I also think that between parts batchs a error could have been made in the actual powder being used. Too much difference in gloss and color compatability.

In addition to the paint VS powdercoat discussions , the DOD uses a powdercoat primer and then a CARC finish.

Also the entire chassis had been blasted then painted with SW black with a gloss reducer. However this painter did a job upside down, the chassis portion where the body sits is nice and smooth however the bottom of the frame rails were never filled and is pock marked, along with arears that were void of paint. However that fellow went out of business shortly after the chassis was painted. I then got discusted and stalled the project. But that is another story. If powder coating all items isn't resolve shortly I willl go back and just repaint and get it finished.

To ex98thdrill, powder coating will only fill in small voids, and therefore too much powder will also destroy detail marks in parts, casting numbers, part numbers etc. However I have had no problem with High Temp lab metal filling in deeper voids. It does however take time and effort as it must be cured at I believe 400 F prior to powdercoating. It also may shrink and may require 2 coats if not done properly the first time.

To trimacar I had hoped to find it easier to work with a powdercoater for accomplishing the finishing of parts prior to reassembly, as it seems as if body shop painters are not that interested in small jobs, or in the case of the chassis as mentioned above. I done believe in the added benefits of clear coat either.

Dizz I wish your guy was closer to me I would see him and find out if he could solve my issues.

Thanks agin folks i will keep you popsted and hopefully has a positive outcome for theis and future projects..

Edited December 28, 2010 by FJD (see edit history)

[Guest billybird]

There is also a Mirror Black powder color that I use all the time, which is really a super gloss black. { 95% reflective }. I have not experienced the shade differences you speak of. I always use the same supplier {Eastwood } and clean the gun thoroughly before switching colors. I also pre-bake every part prior to coating. I am not in the powder coating business; just do it for myself and other people from time to time. The only problem I have ever had was from parts I did not pre-bake.

[FJD]

HI Billybird I know what you are talking about theoretically if you use the same powder, brand & batch, same procedures there should be consistancy in the products. As I said I think there is more than one issue with the place that is doing the powdercoating. I will visit him again tomorrow and see if he has the issues straightened out, if not I have another source lined up in another town. I will see whathe can offer if I can't get the desired outcome. Oh yes and supposedly this powdercoater does bring the pieces up to temp and then applies the powder.

Thanks everbody for the input. Happy New Year and good luck to all of the great forum people.

[Guest 1hooligan]

Just a note, I owned the powder coating shop that helped perfect the pearl and other new coatings. firstly, if the part was rusted, ie pot holes, it should have first been costed with red oxside undercoating, to fill in imperfections. Power batches should never be mixed on the same project. All powder should be aireated to a liquid form prior to being shot. few parts should be shot "hot", as this will overcoat and cause weekness due to the thickness of the coating. If done right, no job should chip!!! If shot right and cured correctly it becomes part of the metal. Now that said any exposed sharp corners can chip as the metal below is struck and misforms and bends. And ever in this case by far the most of the time it will not chip if cured correctly. Powder coaters, are like platers, many are not good.

[ex98thdrill]

If done right, no job should chip!!! If shot right and cured correctly it becomes part of the metal.

Just a question and not a complaint, but how can you powdercoat leaf springs without the finish chipping?? I would think as the springs flex and the leafs rub together that you'd have chipping issues.

[FJD]

Hello all.

I talked with the powdercoater today and he showed me two samples of different material, a machined steel piece and a thin gauge sheetmetal piece both brought up to temp and then coated. Using a clean gun and the same powder, results in the gloss had distinct differences in appearance.

I guess if consistancy is not obtainable it appears as if I will go back to black paint with gloss reducer. It is disapointing but not fatal, just lost time and effort. Thanks for all of the advice.