Guest jimstulga Posted November 29, 2010 Share Posted November 29, 2010 Just bought two new Die Hard battery maintainers for my 6V pos ground antique cars. Read the instructions and says to clip the Neg to the battery and the Pos clip goes to a ground on the car (not to the pos side of the actual battery). Do all battery maintainers work this way? I had to replace my batteries (one year old) this Summer after using different brand battery maintainers I bought through an ad in Old Cars Weekly. Lost the instructions, but, last winter I hooked up both clips to the batteries in the car and just left them on all winter. Did I do damage to my batteries? Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joseph P. Indusi Posted November 29, 2010 Share Posted November 29, 2010 I have gotten 9 years out of my 6 volt batteries in my Buicks. I use Battery Tender units and never leave them connected for a long time. After each use of the car, I put the Battery Tender on until the greeen light comes on indicating that charging is complete. During the winter, when I only use the cars about once a month, I use a lamp timer (from Walmart) and set it for one hour each day. I connnect the Battery Tender up to the battery and plug the Battery Tender into the light timer. In this way, the tender charges for one hour each day and keeps the battery up. I do not keep any charger on for more than 2 days because my experience is that they will cook off the electrolyte over time. I also only add distilled water as needed.Good luck.Joe, BCA 33493 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest broker-bob Posted November 29, 2010 Share Posted November 29, 2010 To answer you question can't see why it makes a differance weather you use car ground which, in your case is positive or go right to battery terminals I use the engine head as my positive as my cars are also positive ground----------------bobnroman@yahoo.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jimstulga Posted November 30, 2010 Share Posted November 30, 2010 Thanks for the responses. Very good idea to use a lamp timer to cycle on and off. Why didn't I think of that?!! Guess I'm a little paranoid since my batteries didn't last and I am looking for reasons why. Bought them both at Farm and Fleet for under $50, so maybe it's "you get what you pay for" mixed with having the maintainer on constantly for over three months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buick man Posted December 3, 2010 Share Posted December 3, 2010 You have to have a battery charger that is capable of emitting a milli-mirco-second of float charge capability added to the sine-wave regular charge that the cheaper battery chargers and tenders produce. This micro-beam is called a float charge and is the only way to eliminate sulfur-build up on the plates. You will find these charges sold at Marine sites and stores. They start at about 125 dollars. The basic store bought auto battery chargers and so called tenders do not offer this range of true float charge capabilities. You thereby "cook" your plates and drastically reduce the life of your batteries.The off/on light switch is good substitute for auto parts store battery chargers but a poor alternative to advanced pulse float technology chargers as described above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jimstulga Posted December 5, 2010 Share Posted December 5, 2010 Thanks for your input, David. So what I'm getting from this is..... I could spend $125 for a quality maintainer like you suggested or maybe keep the ones I have, but drastically limit the time they are "on" like Joe said so I don't cook the plates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bhclark Posted December 5, 2010 Share Posted December 5, 2010 Buick Man.....Are you saying the "Battery Tender" brand should NOT be left hooked up long term? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buick man Posted December 6, 2010 Share Posted December 6, 2010 Well yes and no. The floaters give the battery what it really needs. Micro Millisecond current fluctuations that on the surface of the plates allows for non-degradation of the substrate. Turning on and off a blunt charger does nothing for maintaining the plate surface integrity it just moves ions around in a jam like manner. In the long run the battery will be worst for wear. The blunt chargers are good for fast ion pushing but not for maintaining a long life battery. Kinda like just eating sugar for breakfast, lunch and dinner instead of a healthy proportioned & balanced dietary intake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bhclark Posted December 7, 2010 Share Posted December 7, 2010 So, use the float chargers, but only for an hour or two a day? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buick man Posted December 7, 2010 Share Posted December 7, 2010 No. Use the float chargers while in long term storage. Use the dime store battery chargers when you have a "dead" battery and need to crank above that level or mummy state or charge threshold before the battery can actually accept a charge. Then put it on a float charger and leave it there. If, that is if, your aim is to maintain and keep a battery alive and well for as long as possible before you have to buy a new one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bhclark Posted December 7, 2010 Share Posted December 7, 2010 Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Zwicker Posted December 16, 2010 Share Posted December 16, 2010 We have a small car museum at work and keep Battery Tenders on each car, leaving them connected all the time (winter and summer if cars are not driven). We also have battery on-off switches on each battery and leave the batteries in the "off" position at all times, but with Battery Tenders running. See www.tpcarcollection.com for pictures of our cars.As I understand how they are supposed to work, once the battery is fully-charged, a green light comes on at the power supply that is plugged into the wall. If battery needs charged, the red light comes on and a trickle charge is supplied to the battery until charge is complete. When the green light is on, I assume that the Battery Tender is not supplying power anyhow, so do not see the necessity of the timer. Am I missing something? For some reason, everything seems to be working and we have no battery problems.About 15 years ago, I had a 1992 Lincoln Town Car with very low mileage and Battery Tenders were not sold (or I didn't know of them at that time). I used a standard low-priced battery charger to keep the battery up, but unplugged it after the needle showed a full charge (hit or miss method). For some reason, this car had some type of ignition problem, as the ignition key would sometimes be so hot, it could barely be touched. Since we didn't drive the Lincoln much (Sunday car), the battery was always going dead and eventually would no longer take a charge. I took it to the local parts store and bought a new battery. The counter man at the store set the battery on the floor in his shop and the next day the battery "exploded", spewing battery acid all over. The owner of the parts store was not happy. I am thinking that possibly (using the battery charger - NOT a Battery Tender) that I overcharged the battery. (???)We finally got tired of all of this and traded in the Lincoln. I think if the car had been driven on a daily basis, none of the problems would have occured, but the hot ignition switch was always a worry, as our garage was attached to our home. I have a nice 1947 Ford Convertible at home for the winter (car not driven in Ohio winters) and have a Battery Tender hooked up all winter and the green light is always on, so assume battery is fully-charged. Is this OK, or should I unplug the charger for a week or two and then plug it in again to bring the charge up? Attached picture shows the hookup on the battery. Battery Tender is running with the main battery disconnect switch in the "Off" position. Green light on the Battery Tender Power Supply is "On", so I assume it is not supplying power to the battery at this time. In the past, I never unplugged the Battery Tenders while cars were parked, but am wondering if this is the correct procedure.Fred Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msmazcol Posted December 16, 2010 Share Posted December 16, 2010 We have better than a dozen batteries that we deal with on a regular basis. Some of the trucks have batteries in difficult locations so they stay in with a Tender in use. The easier batteries come out and into a warmer shop. We alternate a couple tenders for 8 or 9 batteries. We have not seen any better results doing it one way or another. I do know there are newer versions of the Battery Tender. Maybe some of the early models are the ones people have had issues with.I really don't believe our modern batteries will ever hold up like some good ole' Die Hards or even some OE Delcos did.The manufacturer does not want them to! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msmazcol Posted December 16, 2010 Share Posted December 16, 2010 Some great looking stuff in that collection! Nice mix of modified and stock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest olds69 Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 I have been using battery tenders from walmart for years, only put out 1.5 amps leave on all winter on my Model A , Chrysler, 6 volt, tractor, oldsmobile and MC 12 volt and have never had a problem! These tenders have a switch for 6 or 12 volt and cost about $20.00 each, and they work really well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owen_Dyneto Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 I suppose battery tenders have their place, though I don't really see any advantage over traditional trickle chargers, and they have the decided disadvantage of not being able to charge at higher rates (6-8 amps) when needed. All the trickle chargers I've had over the years automatically taper their charge rate depending on the battery condition. I live in northern NJ and usually lay up both cars over the winter. I normally put the trickle charger on my batteries for one night per month over the winter, and typically get 8-9 years of life from the 6-volt batteries, 4 to 4-1/2 from the 12 volts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buick man Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 All "trickle" chargers operate by keeping a constant rate wave pattern that will eventually compromise the internal plates. Even if they turn off and on the rate of charge and the type of charge wave is the same. They will always eventually overtake the linear discharge rate of the chemical/plates then cook upon the plate's substrate surfaces, the condensate material fractionating out of the acid electrolytes. This eventual changes causes depositing onto the plates thereby making the plates less efficient as time goes on. This is just basic electro/chemical physics.To improve upon this, a tender float charger takes and applies different types of charge waves dependent upon the plates current condition at any one moment. This maintenance charge is called a "float" charge wave. This enables the plates substrate to stay free of fractionating deposits upon their surfaces as detailed above. These are the exact deposits which kill wet cell batteries.Think of it this way, without this discriminate wave tailoring ability you basically have cookies in a oven in which you are baking. Your oven just does one thing. Bake. With this set up the surface of the cookies will eventually caramelize, dry out, then brown, and then eventually burn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old car fan Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 we use the tenders ,great for the 6 volt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest De Soto Frank Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 "Read the instructions and says to clip the Neg to the battery and the Pos clip goes to a ground on the car (not to the pos side of the actual battery). "This is common "safe" language found in just about any instruction for connecting jumper cables, battery chargers, or other temporary battery devices to a car / truck.It is an attempt to keep any sparking as the final connection is made, away from the battery and any accumulation of hydrogen gas from the cells that may be present.It is an instruction intended to protect the consumer from accidental injury (and the equipment manufacturer / distributer from litigation.) . A friend recently installed a battery-tender on his '55 Hudson, and it came with a quick-connect sub-harness that hard wires to each battery cable at the battery, and has about one foot of lead ending in a little plug, that connects to the battery tender. Again, presumably keeps any sparks away from the battery, and also allows for quick connect / disconnect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buick man Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 (edited) I thought this post was about how crappy china-mart chargers eat batteries and why. . . or so I thought. Edited January 5, 2011 by buick man (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest De Soto Frank Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 I thought this post was about how crappy china-mart chargers eat batteries and why. . . or so I thought."Read the instructions and says to clip the Neg to the battery and the Pos clip goes to a ground on the car (not to the pos side of the actual battery). "I lifted this text from Jim's original post, and was responding to his question about how his device's instructions said to connect it to the vehicle... ie: "why make one connection (the ground) to the vehicle chassis, and not directly to the battery? "It might not have to do with "whether cheapy chargers kill batteries", but I think it was relevant to the original post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Albert Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 I guess they assume that all cars and negative ground,, when the wrote the instructions,, for positive ground hook up the negative lead first, and the positive lead to the engine block.. Kinda like all the Jump starting instrustion you read,, my shop teacher us they where all wrong,, most say to hook the last lead from neg of the good battery to the engine block of the dead car,,,Only problem is if the battery has frozen i can Explode,,, and where are you standing.. If you go from the neg of the dead battery, to the engine of the good battery, your back will be towards the exploding battery if it goes,, not your face and eyes... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jimstulga Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 Jim, original post guy, back again. I've read all the reply's and thank everyone for their input. All I know is I've had bad luck with the "tenders" I bought. Dave, Buick Man, can you give a specific brand and model number of a tender float charger so I can shop without worry? Or at least more info to lead me in the right direction to a safe purchase. I looked at places on google and am not sure if I would be purchasing the right thing. I'd rather have nothing on my batteries which is what I've done so far this winter than the wrong thing. THANKS, Jim'30 Chrysler CJ'41 Caddy'53 Packard Clipper'61 Imperial (my only 12V car) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Bruce aka First Born Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 Jim, bought mine from Interstate Battery. Ben Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bhclark Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 I've always used the Deltran "battery tender" brand.Always been afraid to try one of the cheapos like what what sell at Harbor Freight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buick man Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 (edited) Here's a couple sites to get you started in the right direction:Charging the lead-acid batteryBATTERY CHARGERS & INVERTERS - American Marine Supply.com - Quality nautical equipment and accessories for the recreational and commercial boating community.http://www.thefind.com/electronics/info-multi-stage-battery-charger Edited January 8, 2011 by buick man (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jimstulga Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 Thanks DavidJim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest R-ajax peterson Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 I just went to the link for " the find.com" that was given a few posts back. Typed in 6V, at the end of the search that came up on the link description shown in the search "box". The result gave me Die Hard chargers that have the "float" feature described in the techs for the charger. Unless I'm missing something it seems to me that Jim (original poster), has made a good purchase.:confused: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bhigdog Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 I guess I'm the odd man out but I don't bother with tenders at all. My 39 Chev 6 volt battery lasted 8 years. My Corvette battery typically lasts 7-8 years. They are NAPA's better batteries.They sit unused all winter except from time to time I start all my cars and cycle everything even if its just driving back and forth in the garage.I used to buy "correct" repro batteries for my other cars but could not get more than 3 years out of those P.O.S. Now I have NAPA batteries in them. The 55 buick's is 5 years old now and still going strong...............Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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