New Cars & Old GM Literature

[OldsDoug]

I'm thinking about a new vehicle, and for many reasons that I won't go into here, it has to be a GM. Have been doing a lot of research on the internet for quite some time now. GMC doesn't even have any info on their website about the 2011 Yukon! This past weekend a friend gave me a bunch of 1960s Chevrolet and Pontiac sales literature... looking at that and thinking about it in context with my current quest, it occurs to me that it's no wonder that GM is / has been in trouble... it seems to me that somewhere along the line (like about 35 years ago!) they forgot how to market their products... the Pontiac brochures are particularly elegant. I've heard that before from a car-enthusiast friend who is also a free-lance commercial artist - I don't remember who he said Pontiac's ad agency was in the 1960s, but they were famous for their illustrations of the cars. Not only are the brochures visually striking, but they have... information about the cars! Another interesting piece was about the GM display at the 1964 New York World's Fair... has illustrations similar to those in the Pontiac brochures.

Discussion on any of the topics here?

Edited September 23, 2010 by OldsDoug
Changed "Tahoe" to "Yukon". (see edit history)

[rocketraider]

Older car brochures and ad campaigns showed cars in settings that buyers could either relate to or aspire to.

Now the advertisements tout electronic entertainment gadgets (most of which have no place in an automobile IMHO) and financing options. Neither of which make me want to go out and buy the car being advertised.

Doug, you have a higher current opinion of GM products than I do. They do not offer ANYTHING that makes me want to settle into 7 years of payments, and I am not about to turn loose of cash for something I cannot stand its appearance.

I'll keep looking for a 2-4 year old Grand Markee, thank you.

[OldsDoug]

Yeah, there's been a lot of soul-searching here, but I can't get over my mental block(s) about anything other than GM... I just don't think the other manufacturers have the durability, and anything from the Orient is out because of the patriotic mental block. I really am turning into a fud! Having had this '01 Impala 9C1 for ten years now, I decided that all cars should be built that way, and had some thoughts about a Crown Vic, but I see too many of them passing blue smoke... plus Ford killed them anyway! And none of the GM passenger cars are under consideration... it's gonna be another Tahoe; I have a 2000 now and it's been flawless. I don't need that much vehicle, and I know I'm not buying this thing with my brain!

[Guest bkazmer]

make sure your "patriotic mental bloc" is well-calibrated.

Are you aware of which GM cars are designed in part by PATAC? Or in Korea? Or made in Mexico?

The name plate means squat in figuring this out.

[MCHinson]

Doug,

You can't find the Tahoe on the GMC site, because GMC calls it the Yukon. Chevrolet calls it a Tahoe.

2010 New Trucks, New Vans, New SUVs, New Crossovers | GMC

[poci1957]

Doug, good topic, I was a kid in the late 1970s and loved collecting and studying the annual brochures. Anyone could see the amount of attention lavished on them and even then I could see the effort in the prose and photos to glamorize the cars, be they REALLY exciting or not.

It was always interesting in the full line brochures which models were given the most importance in the pecking order. I also would notice if, say, the Pontiac or Oldsmobile brochures looked more prestigious than Chevy, as they presumably should. I am sure that this print image probably contributed to my later becoming a Pontiac fan and appreciating other medium priced cars as being nicer and more interesting than the low priced model.

Current brochures are not entirely different but it is apparent that they do not warrant as much attention as back in the day. There is rarely a large full line prestige catalog anymore, and since the cars do not change much year to year it seems photos and content are sometimes carried over from year to year, maybe with addition of a new cover. But I love looking through the old ones, good topic, Todd C

[Guest Dr. Strangelove]

Older car brochures and ad campaigns showed cars in settings that buyers could either relate to or aspire to.

Amen Rocketraider!

Here we have 2 pictures of a 1965 Pontiac brochure, then 2 pictures of a 2010 Ford Fusion brochure.

Any questions?

(This is a great post!)

[Dave Mellor NJ]

and anything from the Orient is out because of the patriotic mental block.

Three cheers for Doug I just wish everybody felt like us, and you can find the country of origin ( at least the majority of the content). If the serial # starts with 1 it is supposed to be at least 70% American made, #2 Canadian made. I will never buy foreign but I can't force my kids to.(Apologies to our european and down under friends)

[Guest bkazmer]

I'm not trying to talk anybody in or out of a "patriotic mental block." And I don't think a given location makes a car badly (or well) designed. Please spend your money where you want it to go! (there are a few places I won't because of what I know of them). Just do the homework (and the origin code is only part of the story) so you get what you are after.

Chinese Buicks, Mexican Chevies, Canadian Chryslers, Australian Pontiacs, Kentucky Toyotas, etc.

[OldsDoug]

make sure your "patriotic mental bloc" is well-calibrated.

Are you aware of which GM cars are designed in part by PATAC? Or in Korea? Or made in Mexico?

The name plate means squat in figuring this out.

No problem... not considering any of... those vehicles (I almost said "that junk"!) It'll be a Tahoe. But thanks for checking on me!

[OldsDoug]

Doug,

You can't find the Tahoe on the GMC site, because GMC calls it the Yukon. Chevrolet calls it a Tahoe.

2010 New Trucks, New Vans, New SUVs, New Crossovers | GMC

Poor wording on my part! Note that much of the info on the 2011 models has not been added to the GMC site as of yet. I noticed this last (model) year also, there were references to 2008 and 2009 models 'way into the 2010 model year. Like I said, no wonder GM has had problems... in fact, I find many of their car line web sites to be user-unfriendly in that they take too long to load, have too much junk like slide shows and stuff like that, and not enough information. I'd also like to be able to locate a vehicle over a wide area... like east of the Mississippi... instead of one zip code or metro area... but don't mind me; like I said, I'm turning into a fud!

[OldsDoug]

and anything from the Orient is out because of the patriotic mental block.

Three cheers for Doug I just wish everybody felt like us, and you can find the country of origin ( at least the majority of the content). If the serial # starts with 1 it is supposed to be at least 70% American made, #2 Canadian made. I will never buy foreign but I can't force my kids to.(Apologies to our european and down under friends)

Thanks, Dave! (I don't think anyone is owed an apology... and I must add that I wish we got some of the cars here that are sold in Oz!)

Elmer Fudd

[OldsDoug]

Amen Rocketraider!

Here we have 2 pictures of a 1965 Pontiac brochure, then 2 pictures of a 2010 Ford Fusion brochure.

Any questions?

(This is a great post!)

Thanks Todd and Strangelove... interesting that you picked the '65 Pontiac, I've always thought that the full-size '65s were the prettiest cars to ever come from GM... having said that, I also think that from, say, 1961 - 1972, give or take a few years on either end for the sake of argument, if you bought a car from GM (with a couple of well-known exceptions!), you couldn't miss, especially if it was a full-size or an intermediate (and that could go on to as late as 1979 with some models). As far as the exceptions go; I still think the Vega hatchback and wagon and the 2nd generation Corvairs are _really_ good-_looking_ cars... Bill Mitchell really knew how to turn them out.

[OldsDoug]

I'll keep looking for a 2-4 year old Grand Markee, thank you.

Too bad you can't get a 2 - 4 y-o Ninety-Eight... that's _one_ thing I _won't_ forgive GM for... by the time I was able to afford a new Oldsmobile... there weren't any... I started thinking of myself as an Olds owner in 1972...

[poci1957]

I also think that from, say, 1961 - 1972, give or take a few years on either end for the sake of argument, if you bought a car from GM (with a couple of well-known exceptions!), you couldn't miss, especially if it was a full-size or an intermediate (and that could go on to as late as 1979 with some models). As far as the exceptions go; I still think the Vega hatchback and wagon and the 2nd generation Corvairs are _really_ good-_looking_ cars... Bill Mitchell really knew how to turn them out.

I agree with all of the above. Mitchell (and staff) in the 1960s were really at the top of their game. I might argue that some B bodies in 1967-72 were much less graceful than before (Pontiacs) but some remained very sharp even in the XXL size (Buick and Olds). And indeed, for an economy car the Vega was quite well styled, as was the Nova of 1968-74. It just shows that even for cars lamentably built to a price and with a cheap plastic interior Mitchell and Company would not allow them to leave poorly styled. We should be so lucky today.....

[john2dameron]

GM should still be kicking themselves in the posterior for killing off the oldest existing car line in the United States, and no, I'm not really a GM fan. Got burnt too many times.

[Guest Dr. Strangelove]

GM should still be kicking themselves in the posterior for killing off the oldest existing car line in the United States, and no, I'm not really a GM fan. Got burnt too many times.

How the hottest selling car on the planet, the mid-70's Oldsmobile Cutlass, could no longer be produced, is amazing in and of itself. The fact that Oldsmobile brand no longer exists is astonishing.

[rocketraider]

Don't get me started on what GM did to Oldsmobile. A lot of it goes back to Doug's original post where he mentioned they forgot how to market their cars. Even if you're selling substandard junk (and a lot of 80s GM was exactly that, bottom to top), if you know how to market it you might sell some before people get wise. And GM didn't market Oldsmobile worth a hoot back then.

"Not your father's Oldsmobile" indeed. It sure wasn't. It didn't compare in any shape form or fashion. Not that Pontiac's "We build excitement" was much better, considering the product they had back then.

If you can't, won't or don't advertise your product so that the ads make people WANT to buy what you're peddling, then you can't really hold your product responsible for its failure to sell. But GM did that, and punished their "underperforming" Divisions even further by withholding R&D and advertising money.

Now, Oldsmobile was selling a million cars a year from mid-70s thru mid-80s. Before and after then they were selling their customary 400-500 thousand cars a year, which is still respectable and did them well all those years. Then all of a sudden it's no good and not enough? Talk to the hand, baby, the ears are not listening to that tripe...

I still say GM got what they had coming, and it's a shame the people who put them in that situation and mindset were not held criminally, legally and financially responsible for it. A couple of CEO's in particular should have served prison time.

But Doug, since you've pretty much determined it will be another Tahoe, I guess it boils down to who gives you the best price.

[rocketraider]

Too bad you can't get a 2 - 4 y-o Ninety-Eight... that's _one_ thing I _won't_ forgive GM for... by the time I was able to afford a new Oldsmobile... there weren't any... I started thinking of myself as an Olds owner in 1972...

The last generation of Ninety Eights were among their best, even with Buick motive power. Everyone I've ever known who had one loved it. But, any you find now are well over 100K miles and they are complicated to fix when their electronic gadgets go wonky.

The 91-96 cars finally looked like Ninety Eights again- a welcome change from the 1985-90 iteration, which I could never warm up to. And when they had superchargers, they performed like Ninety Eights as well.

On Grand Marquis- I'm at a point in life I want a full-size, full-frame RWD "modern" car, and the Markee fits the bill better than anything else right now. A lot of the family are moving to Mercedes or Volvo, but DK if I can see myself going there just yet. At least there IS a Ford store here that can fix a Mercury if it breaks. The smoking problem has been remedied; you don't see much of that now.

And I admit the local GM dealer influences my anti-GM bias a bit.

[Guest 1969dan]

Chinese Buicks, Mexican Chevies, Canadian Chryslers, Australian Pontiacs, Kentucky Toyotas, etc.

Neither the new Regal nor the LaCrosse are made in China, there are design elements which came from the Chinese Buicks that are used on these cars, but neither of them are made in China. The reason for Buick and hence, many of it's designs coming from there, was due to the fact the Buick was a very well regarded marque in China prior to communism taking hold in 1949. The 1920's and 30's Buicks did well there, prompting GM to get back into that market now that the communist grip has been loosened, and aspects of democracy are making their way into that country.

[OldsDoug]

Neither the new Regal nor the LaCrosse are made in China,

I just saw a Buick ad somewhere and found out that the Regal is really an Opel... GM has been trying to bring Opels into this country since the late 1950s (maybe before?) and they keep falling on their... rumps... I guess we were about due; there hasn't been one since the Catera flopped... I suppose it's time for Renault, Pigout, and Fiat to show up here again for another try! :eek:

[rocketraider]

FIAT is closer than you think. They own Chrysler, you know.

The one that ripped me last night was the new Corvette ad- "America still builds rockets" compete with Corvette burnout. Pfft.

Gives even more credence to the factory tales of Chevrolet's insane jealousy of Oldsmobile.

My uncle was a Renault/Poojoe mechanic here for many years. He always said they weren't bad cars, it was just that Americans weren't ready for them and didn't understand that they weren't designed for the high-speed Interstate travel Americans were used to in the 60s and 70s. He drove them himself for years and said they were better cars than Volkswagen, but without the VW marketing machine behind them.

So maybe ze Frainch didn't know how to market their stuff either.

[OldsDoug]

FIAT is closer than you think. They own Chrysler, you know.

Yeah, I figure it's only a matter of time there...

The one that ripped me last night was the new Corvette ad- "America still builds rockets" compete with Corvette burnout. Pfft.

Gives even more credence to the factory tales of Chevrolet's insane jealousy of Oldsmobile.

Ow... boy, I'm glad I didn't see that... that would have brought me to a rage! (Another good reason to not watch television!)

My uncle was a Renault/Poojoe mechanic here for many years. He always said they weren't bad cars, it was just that Americans weren't ready for them and didn't understand that they weren't designed for the high-speed Interstate travel Americans were used to in the 60s and 70s. He drove them himself for years and said they were better cars than Volkswagen, but without the VW marketing machine behind them.

So maybe ze Frainch didn't know how to market their stuff either.

Possiblement... mais s'ils n'étaient pas conçus pour celui (if they weren't designed for that), alors pourquoi did they try to sell them here? Merde alors...

I always figured that Renaults / Peugeots were pretty good cars... if you lived in France... Saabs were pretty good cars... if you live in Sweden... Fiats were pretty good cars... if you live in Italy... etc!

There was a Fiat dealer here in College Park in the '60s called LaChina's... those guys there knew their stuff... not one of them spoke a word of English!

[Guest 1969dan]

Actually the Malibu Maxx was Opel based, so was the Saturn Aura using the Opel Epsilon platform, as does the new LaCrosse, Regal, and Malibu. The new Regal will be built in Germany for the first year, then production will head to Canada, though I heard that Ohio was a possibility. Considering that GM has been a part owner of Opel since 1936, it should not be any suprise that they use some of their engineering. The other automakers do the same.

[John_Maine]

I used to have scads of literature. Every year, all the local dealerships would have an open house on Washington's Birthday. Since there was no school and all the other businesses used to be closed, I'd get my father to take me around to all the dealerships in the city. I'd look at the cars and pick up one of every brochure. I started collecting about 1955. Then in the 60's, I used to go to the Hanover Lion's Club Auto Show at the Dartmouth College Field House. My uncle was in the Lion's Club then and since the show was always in March on my birthday weekend, first my uncle would take me, then when I could drive and had my own car, I'd go on my own. By the early 80's, I had quite a collection of literature. Unfortunately, with kids, a mortgage and all that goes with it, I sold most of it to give me enough money to put in a lawn. I still picked up brochures, though, and have quite a lot from the 80's and 90's scattered around.

I think one of the reasons we don't see the literature we used to is the cost. The auto companies just don't have the money to invest in fancy advertising.

P.S. - I'm generally not a fan of anything with a foreign nameplate. My uncle's dealership sold Chevrolet, Renault and Peugeot. He and my aunt owned a couple of Peugeot 404s. They were quirky, but rode and drove beautifully. I drove a new 504 with a 4 speed manual column shift once and was very impressed. Wasn't interested in owning one, though, as there were no dealers where I lived. From my observation, the Peugeot was far superior to the Renault.

Edited September 27, 2010 by John_Maine (see edit history)

[Guest bkazmer]

Chinese Buicks, Mexican Chevies, Canadian Chryslers, Australian Pontiacs, Kentucky Toyotas, etc.

Neither the new Regal nor the LaCrosse are made in China, there are design elements which came from the Chinese Buicks that are used on these cars, but neither of them are made in China. The reason for Buick and hence, many of it's designs coming from there, was due to the fact the Buick was a very well regarded marque in China prior to communism taking hold in 1949. The 1920's and 30's Buicks did well there, prompting GM to get back into that market now that the communist grip has been loosened, and aspects of democracy are making their way into that country.

I work in the auto industry and I agree with your statement as regards final assembly, but PATAC (GM-China jv) had more than a small role in these cars.

The story I heard was that GM asked the Chinese govt about the reputation of their brands, and Buick was the best regarded. This was during Communist Party government, but the reputation certainly has roots pre-war. They are much closer to a full line manufacturer in China and sell several times as many cars as in North America.

[Guest 1969dan]

I am quite sure one of the reasons that GM kept Buick and axed Pontiac (w/the govt. nudging) was that the Chinese market was boosting sales of China made Buicks, which are selling very well there, even though the domestic sales fell well below what Olds had before they pulled the plug on them. Not that I wanted to see Buick fail. I do like the new LaCrosse and Regal, though I think the Regal is too pricey...maybe a used one for me in a couple of years.

[LINC400]

I have seen a lot of the '50's-'60's Cadillac ads and brochures showing a woman in an elegant ball gown and man in tux decending the steps of the opera to their waiting Cadillac. Very elegant ads.

Unfortunately these types of ads would no longer work. Nobody wants to be elegantly dressed. They want to be comfy in sweats and flip flops. The cars pretty much all look identical, so simply showing it in front of an elegant setting is not going to get anyone to buy one aeroegg over another either.

People are not interested in cars anymore like they used to be either. All they know are whatever buzzwords they hear in the media like hybrid, fuel efficient, safety etc. So that is what is blasted in advertising. Plus why bother printing expensive brochures when most people don't bother leaving their computer to shop for a car?

[Guest P.M.O.]

and anything from the Orient is out because of the patriotic mental block.

Three cheers for Doug I just wish everybody felt like us, and you can find the country of origin ( at least the majority of the content). If the serial # starts with 1 it is supposed to be at least 70% American made, #2 Canadian made. I will never buy foreign but I can't force my kids to.(Apologies to our european and down under friends)

I like your thinking

[Guest P.M.O.]

I'm thinking about a new vehicle, and for many reasons that I won't go into here, it has to be a GM. Have been doing a lot of research on the internet for quite some time now. GMC doesn't even have any info on their website about the 2011 Yukon! This past weekend a friend gave me a bunch of 1960s Chevrolet and Pontiac sales literature... looking at that and thinking about it in context with my current quest, it occurs to me that it's no wonder that GM is / has been in trouble... it seems to me that somewhere along the line (like about 35 years ago!) they forgot how to market their products... the Pontiac brochures are particularly elegant. I've heard that before from a car-enthusiast friend who is also a free-lance commercial artist - I don't remember who he said Pontiac's ad agency was in the 1960s, but they were famous for their illustrations of the cars. Not only are the brochures visually striking, but they have... information about the cars! Another interesting piece was about the GM display at the 1964 New York World's Fair... has illustrations similar to those in the Pontiac brochures.

Discussion on any of the topics here?

the cost savings was the lack of good thinking.

[poci1957]

I have seen a lot of the '50's-'60's Cadillac ads and brochures showing a woman in an elegant ball gown and man in tux decending the steps of the opera to their waiting Cadillac. Very elegant ads.

Unfortunately these types of ads would no longer work. Nobody wants to be elegantly dressed. They want to be comfy in sweats and flip flops.

Plus why bother printing expensive brochures when most people don't bother leaving their computer to shop for a car?

Linc400, it pains me to see it in print, but you have stated the above facts perfectly and I agree. I had not thought about it exactly, but certainly no one would respond to an add like that, because now everyone (regardless of age) wants to be a "rebel". When Cadillac used Led Zeppelin in a TV ad it was probably perfect to target the demographic able to spend $50,000 on a car. Things are different now and you are right about the brochures also, Todd C

[Guest]

I have seen a lot of the '50's-'60's Cadillac ads and brochures showing a woman in an elegant ball gown and man in tux decending the steps of the opera to their waiting Cadillac. Very elegant ads.

Unfortunately these types of ads would no longer work. Nobody wants to be elegantly dressed. They want to be comfy in sweats and flip flops. The cars pretty much all look identical, so simply showing it in front of an elegant setting is not going to get anyone to buy one aeroegg over another either.

People are not interested in cars anymore like they used to be either. All they know are whatever buzzwords they hear in the media like hybrid, fuel efficient, safety etc. So that is what is blasted in advertising. Plus why bother printing expensive brochures when most people don't bother leaving their computer to shop for a car?

I agree with Todd this type of advertising is gone. In general people have lost their ability to show class, not so much as rich or poor, just class in general. Remember even the poor used to dress up on Sunday. The goal these days is very distorted, sometimes with the wrong message. It's no wonder why people (in general) look and act the way they do.

Don

[poci1957]

Hi Don, absolutely correct on the class and money. Regarding the casual dress, a number of years ago a newspaper columnist wrote of the sight of a father and son in an airport, both dressed the same in t-shirt, cargo shorts, and cap on backwards. It occurred to the writer that formerly children liked to dress up as adults and now--adults want to dress like children. Todd

[Rusty_OToole]

What people do, and what they want to see in an ad, are 2 different things. Imagine a beer ad showing a fat guy with a beer in his hand and a bowl of pretzels watching TV. Now imagine a beer ad with bikini models on roller skates. Which reflects reality? Which would sell more beer?

An ad showing an elegantly dressed couple out on the town, getting out of their Cadillac at the opera or handing the keys to a car hop at a swell country club would sell cars. Even to people who have never been to the opera and never play tennis.

[Rusty_OToole]

Just a reminder that under the Auto Pact, for every Canadian made car sold in the US a US made car is sold in Canada. A common sense way to save having 2 factories on opposite sides of the border make the same car.

So anyone who refuses to buy a Canadian made car is threatening the pay check of a US auto worker.

Edited September 28, 2010 by Rusty_OToole (see edit history)

[Guest]

Hi Don, absolutely correct on the class and money. Regarding the casual dress, a number of years ago a newspaper columnist wrote of the sight of a father and son in an airport, both dressed the same in t-shirt, cargo shorts, and cap on backwards. It occurred to the writer that formerly children liked to dress up as adults and now--adults want to dress like children. Todd

Hi Todd,

Remember when all this casual day, then finally casual dress started at work? At the time we all thought it was great. One day my wife challenged me to go back to the old dress codes and see for myself what the outcome would be.

People were, more courteous and more respectful in general, Plus I had a much easier time with my subordinates in getting the jobs done and more respect from my contemporaries and bosses.

Dress like a slob - get treated like a slob

Don

Edited September 29, 2010 by helfen (see edit history)

[Rusty_OToole]

Speaking of dumb ads today I received a dandy in the mail.

It is a full color fold out brochure, 16 1/2 X 11 inches. It was sent out by a local Chrysler dealership. The first line in in giant letters says "IMPORTANT NOTICE SAVE THOUSANDS" the very next line is "YOU HAVE BEEN PRE- SELECTED TO ATTEND A PRIVATE SALE THAT WILL NOT BE ADVERTISED TO THE PUBLIC"

FAIL.

My first reaction was what the heck are they talking about? Not advertised to the public, I've got the advertisement in my hand?

My second was, if they would lie about that they would lie about anything.

[Guest]

[quote name=OldsDoug;797128the Pontiac brochures are particularly elegant. I've heard that before from a car-enthusiast friend who is also a free-lance commercial artist - I don't remember who he said Pontiac's ad agency was in the 1960s' date=' but they were famous for their illustrations of the cars. Not only are the brochures visually striking, but they have... information about the cars! Another interesting piece was about the GM display at the 1964 New York World's Fair... has illustrations similar to those in the Pontiac brochures.

Discussion on any of the topics here?

From at least the 58 model year through the complete decade of the 60's Pontiac's add agency was MacManus, John & Adams. One of their employees was Jim Wangers who is considered by many Pontiac and especially GTO fans as the Godfather of the GTO because of his promotion of Pontiac's and especially the GTO. Jim was one of the first guys to a arrange a factory outlet out the back door to a dealer (Royal Pontiac) to promote drag racing in 1959. Jim and his team at McManus also conjured up all the creative adds such as Wide-Track Pontiac, GTO Tiger and Pontiac Tiger, later the Great-One (because the 14th floor didn't like the tiger theme) theme. One unique aspect of Pontiac print advertising was the use of art instead of photography and those wonderful illustrations were done by Art Fitzpatrick and Van Kauffman who did paintings from 1959- thru early 70's. Art is still around and living in San Diego county. I called him up one day to ask for three of his prints for cars that I own (59 Catalina, 62 Catalina, 69 LeMans) and met with him. A great artist and nice guy. He's still active and on the internet too. Another note on Jim Wangers, Jim was also responsible for getting the group Ronny & The Daytonas to do a song for the GTO. The hit song was called "GTO". Many call it Little GTO, but GTO is the correct name. Jim was also behind the Tom Mc cann GTO shoes being sold all over the country. Jim was also the go-between with Pontiac Division and the Hurst Corporation and was also responsible for being able to get GM's approval to use Hurst logo on Pontiac shifters starting with the 64 Pontiac's. Prior to that GM had a policy against a outside supplier company putting their name on their product. So all you Hurst/Olds fans can thank Jim Wangers, George Hurst, John DeLorean-chief engineer, and Pete Estes-Pontiac General manager for that one and you muscle car fans can thank those same guys for putting their careers on the line especially Pete Estes for putting out the GTO in direct corporate policy violation. If any of you have read some of my threads before relating to Pontiac wou will remember the saying " If only they would have left Pontiac Division Alone" , they might still be with us today.

Don

FYI I should mention that Jim Wangers also lives in San Diego county and is one of the nicest guys you would ever want know or call friend!!

Edited September 29, 2010 by helfen (see edit history)

[LINC400]

What people do, and what they want to see in an ad, are 2 different things. Imagine a beer ad showing a fat guy with a beer in his hand and a bowl of pretzels watching TV. Now imagine a beer ad with bikini models on roller skates. Which reflects reality? Which would sell more beer?

An ad showing an elegantly dressed couple out on the town, getting out of their Cadillac at the opera or handing the keys to a car hop at a swell country club would sell cars. Even to people who have never been to the opera and never play tennis.

Guys want to fantasize that if they drink brand X beer, they will be surrounded by bikini models.

In the 1950's and 60's, probably very few Cadillac owners were attending the opera in formal evening wear. It was probably driven to work or the grocery store. But people liked to fantasize about the glamourous image, and hoped their Cadillac would make their mundane commutes more glamourous.

Nobody fantasizes about wearing elegant formal evening wear to the opera anymore. That is as out of date as the tailfins on the Cadillacs today. So, no, this image will not sell cars today. Instead they throw in a few horsepower and mpg stats and images of Cadillacs flying around on the pavement to satisfy businessmen that might buy the sedans, and fantasize about "breaking free" from their boring lives of meetings and paperwork. After being stuck in a cubicle all day, they do not fantasize about putting on a "monkey suit" and sitting at the opera.

Edited September 29, 2010 by LINC400 (see edit history)

[John_Maine]

Remember when you used to see a Cadillac, Lincoln or Packard, but particularly Cadillac, drive by and you'd think, "Man, they've got it made. I hope someday I can drive one of those." No one thinks that any more. If a new Caddy goes by today, it looks just like everything else. I certainly don't aspire to own one now. There's too much competition.