My next project? 1921 Packard Coupe.

[oldcar]

Hi All

Unimog John this one is for you.

Friday morning in the Jacobson household is set aside for shopping for our weeks provisions. After lunch while Helen went to her weekly Yoga Class I set about some exercise of a different kind. The main result of my labour is obvious, what you probably cannot see are the two rubber bump stops now mounted onto the frame over the rear axle or the two little umbrella shaped pressings that form part of the splash pans and cover the shackles at the rear of the front springs.(You can just see the left hand side one in the front view photograph.) These are the original factory parts. I have the right hand side splash pan but this still requires an hour or two's work before painting and fitting. Now the engine is back in the chassis I can cut a template for the left side pan and make, paint and fit it.

Having just taken delivery of a 8 metre length of 2" square tube, tomorrow I can start to cut out and weld the temporary frame to transport the body on.

By the time I change out of my "dirties" it will be time to go and pour our pre dinner drinks.

Cheers!

Bernie J.

[unimogjohn]

Bernie, now we are getting somewhere. Looks great! A Packard is re-born. Thanks for the excellent pics.

[petri]

Hi Bernie;

My name is Howard Petri and I just discovered this thread a week ago and have been happily reading all of the posts since the beginning and trying to catch up. I live in south western Indiana in Vincennes. Louisville, KY, is a two hour ride from here. I can't believe how much you have done in such a short time and how good your car now looks.

I have been restoring a 1932 Packard 900 Coupe-Roadster for the last 10 years now. It was in a sad state when I got it but mostly complete. When I look at your pictures I can see my car which looks similar in spite of the 9 year difference, ie, wood framing, springs, rear end, engine, mine is a straight 8 of course. I had to replace almost all of my wood, it wasn't even good for patterns.

The car is now back together and running and painted and it's at the upholsterer which will complete the restoration. I am not an upholsterer. I understand what it is like to work alone as that is how I work. I had the color coat put on by a professional paint shop, the chrome was done also by a professional and now the upholstery. The wood came from a man that does wood and had patterns for the 1001 which is the same. Otherwise I did everything else myself, engine disassembly and reassembly; it did go to a machine shop for new babbit and crank turning and boring. I have touched almost every nut and bolt as I can see you have.

One question, how did you clean up your leaf springs? I did mine on a wire wheel and it took a long time but I got them cleaned up well. I could have taken them to a stripper but I had done that with the body and it's expensive. So any way I can figure out how to do something myself I do. I painted them and reassembled them without any lubricant between the leaves. I was wondering if you used some sort of a lubricant on yours?

I can post a couple of pictues if there's any interest in a later Packard. Keep up the great work and soon you will be driving that Packard. I'll be following this thread daily now that I know it exists. Isn't the internet wonderful at bringing together people with similar interests but at disparate locations.

Howard

[petri]

Hi Bernie et al;

I thought I would just go ahead and post a few before and after pics.

regards,

Howard

[Guest cben09]

Is it a 4 peed or 3,,first year of syncro for Packard,,,Looks great,,,Ben

[petri]

Thanks Ben. It's a 3 speed and it has synchro in 2nd and 3rd gear. In any case no double clutching is necessary.

Howard

[Landman]

Howard,

Great job!! If you have documented your restoration photographically, I suggest you post it here in a new thread. We love them even if they're after the fact.

Pat

[petri]

Just one more pic. I don't wish to divert the main theme of this thread. The uniqueness of this model Packard is the grill. This car was called the Light Eight as well as the Shovelnose. This grill was used only on the Model 900 for the one year of production, 1932. You can see from this picture why it was called the Shovelnose.

Howard

[oldcar]

Hi Howard

Welcome to my thread. In reply to your question regarding leaf springs. Like you I totally dismantle each spring and wire brush them clean. I use a twisted wire rope 4 inch cup brush in my angle grinder. I find that this is much more aggressive than the wheel on my bench grinder. That is fine for cleaning threads on bolts and cleaning small parts. I give each individual leaf a coat of primer then fully assemble each spring before giving it a final coat of paint. I do not use any lubricant on the leaves.

Bernie j.

[petri]

Hi Bernie;

Well that's very similar to what I did. I primed as you did but painted each leaf before assembly through color. I have since worried that I should have lubricated the leaves to avoid sqeaking but so far I don't think I have that problem.

My wire wheel was not agressive enough and it took a long time to do all of those leaves. I should have found a more agressive method as you did. I replaced all of the rubber in the suspension system, it was all very hard and brittle or broken. Thank goodness for Steele Rubber.

Howard

[Landman]

Hi Howard,

That's how I did mine too. See posting #66 in my '34 Chevy thread below. It's too early to tell whether they squeak though.

[Guest cben09]

I'm not sure if its the spring leaves or shackles that squeek,,,Some of these Packards had leather boots on the springs,,Not sure if they were accessorie or std,,,,but by 1955 they were mostly non-existant,,,but the remains were there,,,The 1932 twin-6 had metal gaitors,,,Rolls R had leather boots lined w/ 1/4" felt,and a fitting for the tranny oil gun,,,,

I like oil,,gives a reasonable ride,,but be sure the shocks are connected,,I have broken several springs,,,happens on the rebound,,AND i was 50 or more years younger,,,haha,,Ben

[oldcar]

As Ben states it is possible lubricate springs but that doing so tends to make the ride too soft hence the need for shock absorbers in good condition. Springs rely on the friction between the leaves to control the movement of the axle. In the past on two or three occasions I have had springs repaired (new leaves inserted to replace broken ones)professionally. They were certainly not lubricated before delivery or any suggestion made that they should be greased or oiled either at the time of installation or during service. Almost without exception these were painted after assembly.

During the 1920s many racing cars had springs bound with cord to restrict movement. Ben Is also correct in saying many pre WW2 luxury cars particularly English makes used leather boots or "Gaiters" to enclose springs, mainly to exclude dust and mud. Some of these gaiters do have provision for greasing. Most of these expensive English cars also have double shock absorbers to help control excessive spring movement. In Howard's case to fully paint each spring leaf may be self defeating as unless the individual spring leaves were either baked or left for up to perhaps as much as two weeks for the paint to fully harden before assembly the paint may tend to cling to the leaves either side making the springs too stiff. In only giving each leaf a light coat of primer the sole purpose is to prevent the springs from rusting prior to assembly. I am neither an Automobile engineer nor a professional restorer but simply an enthusiast doing what experience has taught me. Squeaking is more likely to come from dry shackle bolts especially if fitted in conjunction with metal (bronze) bushes. Sometimes rubber or synthetic shackle bushes will squeak due to the presence of dust. This is more likely to occur with worn bushes.

Bernie J.

Edited October 23, 2011 by oldcar (see edit history)

[40phil41]

I have been lurking quietly and reading the comments with respect to spring lubrication (or not). FWIW, my '41 Dodge came with metal covers and here is what my owner's manual has to say:

"Springs (with steel covers) - The frequency for lubrication of springs with metal covers is largely dependent upon climatic and road conditions. The necessity of lubrication is indicated by spring squeaks and stiff riding. Use special fitting to inject spring leaf lubricant.

Lubricants containing inert materials such as asbestos fibre, graphite, silica etc., are undesirable for spring lubrication. A lubricant containing a rust preventative (inhibitor) is recommended in order to avoid rust formation which leads to hard riding and spring squeaks."

Phil

[oldcar]

Hello All

I am more than satisfied with the work that I have already carried out on my Packard's springs. They are now fully assembled and back on the car. I have no intention of taking them apart again or to change what has been my policy regarding the restoration of springs either now or into the future. Should anyone wish to continue this discussion may I respectfully suggest that there is possibly a more suitable location within the Forum to do so. As far as I am concerned I will be moving on with my restoration work on the Packard. Those who wish to follow its progress are welcome to do so and their comments are always welcome. I cannot see anything to be gained in pursuing what has become a rather abstract subject. What may be relevant to a 1941 Dodge, a 1935 Rolls Royce or some other vastly more sophisticated vehicle probably has very little to do with what I should have done or not done with my 1923 Packard. I am sure that there are any number of wild geese out there waiting to be pursued but I for one am to busy to be wasting time chasing them.

Thank you to all concerned for their interest and possibly helpful comments.

Bernie J.

Edited October 24, 2011 by oldcar (see edit history)

[40phil41]

Very sorry. I thought I was making a contribution to this discussion. I won't bother you again.

Phil

[Joe Block]

Beautiful grill the Shovelnose.

[oldcar]

Snubbers...

[old car fan]

I always look forward to your new post,amazing

[oldcar]

One that got left off. What Snubbers are made of.

[TexRiv_63]

First time I've seen how the snubbers work. Years ago my wife's great uncle used to tell stories about the Oakland cars he owned in the 20s and he said they rode better than other cars because they had "snubbers". At the time I had no idea what he was talking about but now I do - Thanks Bernie!

[Guest SJMcKee]

Hi Bernie, been awhile since I visited your postings, had to go and do research on snubbers, like texriv, I had never understood how they worked. Nice intricate piece. Looking forward to watching the assembly process. Have a great day

Edited October 26, 2011 by SJMcKee (see edit history)

[oldcar]

Hello Steve

I have sent you an e-mail explaining the construction and action of the snubber rather than going into any great detail here.

Thank you for your interest.

Bernie J.

[oldcar]

In this funny world of old motor cars you keep learning new things every day.

Today I learnt that to fit the drive shaft on a early series Packard you must first move the rear axle back an inch or two. First you remove the shackle bolts at the front of both rear springs and the anchor bolt at the front of the torque arm. One step forward, one step back!

Bernie J.

[oldcar]

I forgot to mention the clevis pins in the brake rods too.

Either way three hours later and the job is done. Sadly that is all for today.

I have a Rally route to plan.

Bernie J.

[oldcar]

Sorry! but I do have another life. Today I had a story to complete for the Automobile Magazine in the UK. Those who buy/read it may get to see it in a month or two.

Bernie J.

Edited October 28, 2011 by oldcar (see edit history)

[oldcar]

Hi All

Something very different. Our son Paul and his partner Nicole are keen bird watchers and bird song recorders. They make frequent trips into the out back. Right now they are in the Flinders Ranges in the north of South Australia and have sent back these photographs.

Hope you find them interesting.

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

Thanks, Bernie,

Could be in our west. Looks like California or Arizona.

Ben

[oldcar]

While it may seem no big deal, I have spent the last two days working on getting the right hand door opening and closing to my satisfaction and keeping the gaps at both sides and the bottom of the door uniform. I know that I will probably have to do some of this again (final adjustments) when the body is fitted onto the chassis frame again but hopefully only minor adjustments. By the time the car is nearing completion (with trim carpets etc) it is my aim that the doors will close, as all Packard doors should, with just a discrete click.

Bernie J.

Edited October 30, 2011 by oldcar (see edit history)

[oldcar]

No photographs again! Sorry but I am busy doing boring things like making the "staples" to anchor the ends of the front snubber straps (I had the original ones for the rear.) and angle brackets to stiffen up where the door pillars join into the main body stringers (the heavy pieces of timber that sit on the chassis) All time consuming and essential stuff but nothing to get excited about. I would like to get the body out to Aaron for him to finish a couple of little things before it goes to be painted.

Then I can make a start on running some electrical wires around the chassis frame while I have unfettered access to it. Has anyone got a spare of the pressed metal cover that goes over the wiring loom where it links onto the red fibre junction board on the bulkhead I am not sure if this is unique to the early single six or a universal piece. I could probably make one but it looks like another time consuming & fiddly job. I will try to take some photos of this piece tomorrow. It is 6.34 P.M. now and the Boss lady will be getting impatient.

Bernie J.

Edited October 31, 2011 by oldcar (see edit history)

[oldcar]

Hello again

Further to yesterdays post here are a couple of photographs of the electrical junction box cover that I am looking for. This one comes from inside the bulkhead behind the dash, there should be another similar on the engine side of the bulkhead. They are 8 3/4 inches long, 1 3/4 inches wide and 1 1/4 inches high. One end is rounded the other square with a horseshoe shaped cutout to cover the conduit carrying the wires to the junction board.

I could make one but it could never be the exact shape as the original is a pressing. If you are or have been an early Packard Single Six owner please have a look in your junk box. you never know what may be lurking there.

Thank you

Bernie J.

Edited November 1, 2011 by oldcar (see edit history)

[oldcar]

Here we are again. It has just turned 6.15 p.m. and I have just finished washing up. This morning I finished screwing in the two body strengthening brackets I had made yesterday. This afternoon has been spent re-claiming about 75% of the original Packard flexible conduit and the two main junction boxes that mount along the right hand side chassis rail. One directly below the bulkhead the other in line with the stop-light switch at the third cross member. I will probably have to replace the smaller diameter conduit that runs forward to the headlamps and the one that carries the wires to the horn and then back to the base of the steering column. This also involved making two new lids to replace those missing from both junction boxes. Oh yes, I did stop for 15 minutes to watch the running of the Melbourne Cup, our most famous horse race, on TV.

Bernie J.

[oldcar]

As Charlie Brown is reported as saying "Good Grief"

How many little clamps, brackets and fittings can you wire brush, sand paper, prime, sandpaper again and finally paint? Oh yes then there is the copper pipe from the petrol (gas) tank to the vacuum tank. It has lived under the car among all the grime and grott for the past 88 years. Hey, this is meant to be fun!

Bernie J.

[oldcar]

Just as life goes on so does the work, As part of preparing the bulkhead for painting I have removed the red fibre board, electrical junction 'box'. While it is apart is seemed a good time to give it a clean before stowing it away safely. The thing that impresses me about this is the way Packard made sure that even the simplest country mechanic or village blacksmith (remember this was 1923) could cope with electrical wiring repairs.

Typical is the labelling of the various terminals. For instance, having done some reading on the subject, I know that the terminal marked 'Spl Tail' was to cater for those states that required that the tail lamp be switched on and off from the rear of the car. This connection is live once the ignition is turned on so will serve perfectly for the stop light switch. It is also worth noting that the matching terminals on the strip from the dash side of the bulkhead shows AM+ (ampmeter positive) and AM- (ampmeter negative) then the number of the terminal on the main switch e.g. SW#7 etc that that particular wire goes to. It is all these little refinements that make the Packard so rewarding to work on.

While on the subject of electrical wiring does someone, anyone have a listing of the colour combinations for 1920s Packard wiring? What was left of the original wire was so faded and decayed as to all look the same dirty grey. That is where any insulation remained.

Bernie J

Edited November 5, 2011 by oldcar (see edit history)

[unimogjohn]

Bernie, I am no expert on the matter, but the wiring I have seen is all one color, only the gauge is different. With so few wires they did not need colors to identify them. I just identify both ends when I rewire so I have a clue as to where they go. But you can get cloth wiring with many colored threads in them, but they soon wash out with age, and you have all brown again.

[oldcar]

Thank you John

I am much more used to working on English cars. Despite all the criticism heaped on him, Joseph Lucas had worked out a standard system of colour coding electrical wires in motor cars. Anyone working on virtually any English car using the Lucas system can identify where a wire comes from and where it is going. Of course Lucas also discovered very early that electricity is actually smoke and where there is a leak in a wire that is where the smoke is coming from....

Bernie J.

[oldcar]

Hi All

I trust that I am not boring anyone but to explain what I am talking about I have scanned a couple of pages out one of my books on the subject of Auto- electrics. I have used as an example a section of a 1952 Morris Minor wiring diagram as a typical and relatively basic English car. This shows how a system of varied colours for the outer insulating coating of the wires simplifies the tracking of a particular circuit. For example all wires going to earth are Black. I find it difficult to believe that American manufacturers did not use some similar system to identify individual electrical circuits.

It would be easy for me to use the Lucas system but then it would not be as it was, when the Packard left the factory.

I believe that as far as possible for a restoration to be "correct" these things should be 'as when new'.

Bernie J.

Edited November 5, 2011 by oldcar (see edit history)

[DavidMc]

Bernie,

Do you have a copy of the "Service Parts List" for the Packard Six ? Pages 40A, on give information about cable sizes, colors, lengths conduits and terminals etc. Most of the wiring seems to be black. Let me know if you need a copy.

David

[oldcar]

Hi David

Welcome back to the real world.

No, I don't have a copy of the "Service Parts list". If you could e-mail me just the relevant page I will see about getting a a copy of the rest.

Cheers

Bernie J.

[oldcar]

Hi David

Many thanks for the Service Parts List. It is rather difficult to read in the form that you sent it but I will leave it until your life comes back to normal. Meanwhile I have just eight more Phillips head screws in the luggage compartment lid to replace with slotted head and the body is ready to go off to the painters. He is not quite ready to make a start on it but at least it will be in the queue.

It is now 6.15 pm so time to down tools and get cleaned up.

Cheers

Bernie J.