My next project? 1921 Packard Coupe.

[Guest Backyardmechanic]

Hi Bernie'

We can supply you with the brown Linouem Just give us the size you need.

If you like a sample just contact us.

Romar Dodge Brothers

888-827-7601

[gundog99]

I bought some brown Linoleum off cuts from a classic boat builder and restorer.

[Guest Bernard Livingston]

Hi Bernie,

You certainly don't let the grass grow under your feet.

I should have read all 7 pages of your restoration letters before I offered anything.

I have now done that and see that you have everything you need, Parts and advice.

I look forward to seeing the finished car.

All the best & Happy New Year.

Bernard L

[oldcar]

Hi y'all and here is to an even better 2011.

Only a fool says that they have everything and know everything. I am painfully aware I still have a lot of learn about Packards. I doubt that I will ever stop learning I certainly hope not. As I have said previously I am a great believer in the power of the old car network. I never cease to be amazed at the places old cars can take you and the fantastic people that you need along the way. I rightly or wrongly like to think of you all as true friends. While due to one thing or another I have not been able to keep every car I have owned over the last 55 or 60 years I do not regret having owned any of them. Not all of them have been "good" cars but every one has taught me something. The people that I have met as a result of owning them I will never forget.

I look forward to next two or three years as being an exciting journey into "Packard Land". If it is even half as interesting trip as the first six months have been it will be fantastic. I look forwards to having your company along the way and to meeting even more enthuisiastic new friends.

It really is a great life and well worth living every second!

Have a Happy and Healthy New Year

Bernie J.

[oldcar]

The holidays are over and so back to work. I have just finished re-assembling and adjusting the steering box and am now working on freeing up the tubes for the hand controls. Getting the larger of the three out of the steering column was something of a challenge but with the application of large quantities of penetrating oil and some gentle heat it has finally come out. Today's problem is removing the remains of the wire leading to the horn out of the centre (smallest diameter) tube. the old (original) insulation seems to have degraded and is well and truly stuck. I am reluctant to use too much heat as I do not want to distort the tube. The wire is broken off about an inch inside the tube at each end. My thinking is that I may have to drill it out using a 3/16 drill bronze welded onto a length of rod. Any alternative suggestions extremely welcome. Last thing I want is a drill broken off and stuck half way along the length of the tube.

Bernie J.

[TonyAus]

Bernie

If the degraded wiring was rubber covered you might try soaking the whole mess in white spirit for a couple of weeks. This will soften the rubber. If cotton covered over the rubber and the cotton is sticking you could inject some hydrochloric acid into the tube.

Another thought is to boil it in a strong caustic soda solution.

Best of luck

Tony

[West Peterson]

How about using something that will dissolve the rubber? Sulfuric acid???

[Guest bkazmer]

Other than possibly attacking filler in the rubber compound, strong mineral acids are not likely to be effective. Mixed hydrocarbon solvents, like a good parts cleaner uses, is more likely to be effective.

[oldcar]

Hi all

Many thanks for the suggestions.

I seem to have managed to remove all the insulation material with some spray can Gasket stripper ( very aggressive solvent) but now have a wad of copper wire that seems to have welded itself to the inside of the tube about half way along its length. Possibly as a result of a short circuit at some time in the distant past. This wire is "live" when the ignition is switched on, and may explain why it was cut off flush with the bottom of the tube.

I think that the only way I am going to remove this is by "driving" it out with a suitable length of 3/16 semi-bright steel rod.

Many thanks to the several people who e-mailed their concerns. Living as we do in Victoria in the south east of Australia we are sufficiently far away not be affected by the floods which are mainly to the north in Queensland and northern New South Wales.

Bernie J.

[West Peterson]

Many thanks to the several people who e-mailed their concerns. Living as we do in Victoria in the south east of Australia we are sufficiently far away not be affected by the floods which are mainly to the north in Queensland and northern New South Wales.

Bernie J.

Thanks for that, Bernie. I was wondering but I failed to send my concerns. Sorry.

[Larry Schramm]

Bernie,

You might try a home improvement store for a drill that has long rod as part of the drill. It is used for running electrical wires through enclosed walls, etc.

Maybe something like this Sears: Online department store featuring appliances, tools, fitness equipment and more

If not, maybe take a drill smaller than the tube and weld an extension to the drill and carefully drill out the broken wire etc..

Just a thought.

[Guest cben09]

A drill will tend to wander off to one side[through the tube],,It would be better to wait,,think and get a plan,,,My first thought would to find [have made] a piece of tubing,,,fit like a trombone ,to go inside,,,and to file saw teeth on the end,,then saw all around the wire,,THIS is a technique used to get old Lincoln alloy heads off,,Credit to Walter Dunn,Lincoln collector,,Boston,USA area,,Good luck,,Ben,,p/s,,got 2ea 4x4 stuck in drive yesterday,,The 3500GMC pulled em out,,today is sunny,,cb

[oldcar]

Hi all

Again thank you for all the helpful suggestions. The big problem is that the inside diameter of the smallest (centre) tube is less that 1/4 inch. My guess is that a lot of patience and a little gentle persuasion will eventually bring the desired result. The "hole" saw idea is a good one Ben but I am just not good at working in miniature. I have tried the idea of bronze welding a 1/8th drill onto a length of heavy fencing wire only to have the tip of the drill snap off compounding the problem.

Persistence and patience seems to be the only answer. Or as we Aussies are credited as saying during times of stress, "Don't let the bastards get you down".

Bernie J.

Edited January 14, 2011 by oldcar (see edit history)

[Guest cben09]

I believe the comment is something like ""Non illigitimus carburundm est[ sunt]?? So much for 8 grade latin 60+ years ago,,Cheers,,Ben//correction welcome

[Guest cben09]

Google "Chopsticks in ragtime",,by Adam Swanson [and friend],,,a contest of two pianos, ,un-rehearsed,,for some interesting background music,,Cheers,,Ben /are there any vintage music buffs here??

[oldcar]

Quite correct Ben! Not being an OX-bridge scholar** I resorted to using the vernacular.

** Typically those Oh so "British" people who drive around in two tone (Oxford & Cambridge) blue P Type MGs saying things like "Oh golly gosh!" and "Absolutely Absolutely!" and wear "Burbury" plaid everything! (Hats, jackets, shirts, ties, pants, socks and even underpants if they can get them)

Sorry but some times my prejudice in these things just bubbles up!

Bernie J.

Edited January 15, 2011 by oldcar (see edit history)

[oldcar]

What Ho Jeeves! For those unfamiliar with such exotic things, attached is a photograph of a very fine example of a two tone Oxford and Cambridge blue P Type MG. This one is a very smart Aero coupe. Absolutely Supah! Don't-cha know? Frightfully British and all that....

The "Blues" are all about the inter-varsity boat races of course.

Bernie J.

Edited January 15, 2011 by oldcar (see edit history)

[Earl B.]

Bernie, since it's the blues from two schools,,,can't they make up their mind who to rah rah for?????hahaha ....B

[oldcar]

Enough nonsense and back to work. Yesterday I decided to start moving towards pulling the motor and gearbox out. First thing was to remove all the accessories, starter, generator and carburettor. I have stripped down and cleaned 80 years of gunk off both the starter and generator and painted the exterior components. I will have the armatures checked but there is very little wear evident anywhere so they should be a straight forward re-assembly job and then they can go on the shelf for the time being. I am debating whether to nickel plate the brush covers or to paint them. I have a pile of other small parts that I intend to have plated so will probably throw them in too.

My feeling is that especially with a side valve engine as large as the Packard's that a little dressing up does no harm.

[Guest 1928Packard526]

Bernie —

Here are two photos of the engine of a pricey restored '22 Packard 6. I can verify that the basic engine color appears to be correct and that most likely affirms that, (using my carefully restored '28 as an example), the rest of the engine compartment was pretty drab. Not much is plated and most accessory components are painted a gloss black. There may be better info out there, but I think this is probably very close to the original appearance.

The car in question is currently for sale on ebay if you want to check out any of the rest of it.

I admire your work greatly and hope this helps in some small way.

Pete P.

[oldcar]

Hello Pete

Thank your for the two engine photographs. They will serve as a valuable guide when I come to re-assemble my engine. Just a couple of questions. What is the finish you have used on your starter and generator brush covers? What is the lever attached to the bulkhead next to the Vacuum tank and above the wiring junction box cover? ( I am missing the cover for the inside on my car if anyone has one? and finally what is the brand and type of the correct horn for the 1922/3 Single six? I am looking for one of those too. I note that you have used non-original plated domed cylinder head nuts. Are those acceptable? Or would they cost points?

Bernie J.

[Guest 1928Packard526]

Bernie —

The covers on my '28 starter and generator are deeply stamped "buckets" painted the same color as the engine block, a high gloss dark olive drab. Here are a few pictures of the engine compartment on my '28 and so you cam see some of the differences between '22 and '28 for yourself. Also attached are some photos from a '26 Packard where different covers are in evidence.

Later,

Pete P.

P.S. I'm not certain all the picts I intended are attached. There should be 4. Email me if anything is missing and I will resend as email.

Pete

[West Peterson]

Bernie

I would avoid plating things just for the sake of plating. People will take your car more seriously if you detail it correctly. I realize you will still basically end up with a modified car, but IMHO, I think you should do as much as possible the way it would have been done when new.

[Guest 1928Packard526]

Bernie —

My apologies. I neglected to answer your other questions. As to the lever arrangement by the terminal, I haven't a clue. I have never seen anything like it on any other car.

My Parts Book shows only one number for the horn, but the pictures that appear in the schematics used for the various models of the time indicate at least 3 different horns, by shape, were used over time. My horn is a Sparton, and appears to match the one used in the later schematics.

Pete P.

[oldcar]

Hello

There are all sorts of traps for young players. The starter motor on my car is an Atwater Kent. It has the deep dished brush cover. The Generator is a Dyneto as I expected. It is totally different to the one on the Dixie Flyer also Dyneto of the same period (1922) The one on my Packard has a plain band similar to typical Lucas units from the 1930s.

If anyone is looking for Dyneto generator parts For the type with the Magneto coupling from the back end I have two that are free to a good home.

Bernie J

[oldcar]

Well now here is another trap for young players! 1928Packard526 very kindly has sen me a photograph of his steering box in the hope that it would give me some reference to look at when I was re-assembling the bexel gears that drive the control rods for the spark advance & retard and the choke/hand throttle. Alas his box is quite different to the 1923. Has anyone got or can take a clear photo of the arrangement on an early 126 car. Below are the photographs of my steering box and the one in Pete's later 526.

[Guest cben09]

Atwater-Kent is still in business in the Worcester Massachusetts area,,,and seem to cater to keeping their equipment alive and well,,,,wow,,,Atwater-Kent.com I think,,Google it whatever,,,they do gas tank senders and,,,,,,Good site,,,Glad you are making progress,,,The weather here is cold,,,20-30f days,,,and +15 to --10 at nite spring is just around the corner,,,friend said so,,haha,,Cheers,Ben,,,[cigar liter and lamp in safe place,,]not to worry,,cb

[Guest cben09]

When they moved the light switch from the ign sw to the steering wheel,,,they of course changed the bottom of the steering box,,,,The choke rods changed at same time I think,,,Hope this helps,,,Ben

[Guest cben09]

See if you can find an Owners Manual,,,these are accurate for the year and the drawings are very clear,,,,will stand scrutiny with a 7p loop,,,Ben

[DavidMc]

Bernie,

Some photos of the linkage set up on the steering box of the 126. The gear closest to the steering box is the hand throttle and the other is the advance and retard. A bit awkward to photograph let me know if you need more detail

David

[DavidMc]

Bernie, My attempt to attach photos failed, sent by PM.

David

[oldcar]

Hello Ben, David and all

Thank you for your input. I guess that when I get around to doing the final assembly, which will be quite some time into the future it will all become self evident. I am about to start removing the cylinder head and engine oil pan (sump) so it should be interesting to see just what condition the engine is in. Having looked at the distributor it is difficult to find any evidence of wear. Having removed the thermostat housing from the front of the cylinder head it is clear that I will have to replace the thermostat. I must confess that it was my own fault the the bellows were damaged while removing it. I had overlooked the (secret) nut on the underside of the cylinder head. Is there a suitable modern replacement or a reproduction unit available?

Bernie J.

Edited January 23, 2011 by oldcar (see edit history)

[Guest cben09]

Be careful after removing the distrubtor,,NOTE that the SLOT in the drive shaft is off sett,,Assuming the engine turns,,put the crank at TDC [#1valves closed] and carefully note where the slot points to,,,This drive shaft is about a foot long,,and indexing the gear it mates with is the object here,,,,,Hope this makes sense,,

Winter is apon us here,,Todays hi was 12f and tonite,,it's 7;30pm and temp now is -12f,and clear sky,, Keep us posted just in case we remember some obscure detail,,Ben

Edited January 24, 2011 by cben09 (see edit history)

[oldcar]

HI BEN

THANKS FOR THE WARNING RE THE DISTRIBUTOR DRIVE ROD. While the top (distributor) end is offset, the bottom where it engages with the drive gear is a plain square drive. Another trap for young players? Having removed the cylinder head the bad news is that the motor is going to require some serious work. While everything to date has indicated very little wear, the pistons are very loose in the bores although strangely there is no lip (or step) at the top of the bore. Pistons are the original cast iron. At present the oil is draining out of the sump in preparation for its removal tomorrow.

Re the piston/bore wear, this could well be consistent with a lot of driving in the two lower gears (first & second) on un-made dirt roads or tracks with lots of dust and no effective air filtration. This would tally up with the state of the Gabrielle Snubbers and springs in contrast to the lack of wear on the brake rod ends etc.

At present I am investigating the availability of suitable replacement (oversize) pistons but I really will not be able to make any decisions until I have the block off the crankcase and properly cleaned, then I will be able to take some meaningful measurements at both the top & the bottom of the bores.

It is starting to look like a total strip down and full engine recon.

Watch this space.......

Bernie J.

Edited January 24, 2011 by oldcar (see edit history)

[Guest cben09]

Do I take this to mean that the engine is free to turn??,,,Will post more after breakfast,,,8am now and the temp is up to,,,aaah,,,er,,, --23 f,,,,,Glad I live in southern Maine,,,,,dont ask,,good skiiing tho,,,Cheers,,Ben

[oldcar]

Hi Ben

I am glad that it is you who lives in Maine.

Today we have been promised a day in the high 30s C. so at last we are getting some summer weather.

Re; the Packard engine, it has been completely free and has had good compression from day one.

Have some household chores to do this morning and a VSCC event to write up this morning but hope to get back to removing the sump later today. That is if it does not get too hot.

Bernie J.

[Earl B.]

Bernie, please send some of that heat our way!!!!...B

[Guest Silverghost]

It was 4 * F here outside Philly last night !

I am now seriously considering moving "Down Under " !

Bernie~

I find it a bit strange that you in fact see no cylinder wear ridge at the top of your cylinders~~~ With cast-iron pistons that are now loose no less !

Edited January 25, 2011 by Silverghost (see edit history)

[Ozstatman]

Don't envy your temps at all. Tomorrow, Australia Day - History , is a National Holiday here in Oz. For Sydney the forecast is for 33C in the City and 40C in the suburbs away from the coast. My youngest son is having a B-B-Q with his mates at our place, because we have a swimming pool. It's become something of a tradition with them! My wife and I will stay inside out of the heat, as will the Packard, while the young ones enjoy themselves and get sunburnt, also a tradition.

[oldcar]

Brad, I am a puzzled as you are but I won't have an answer until I get it all apart, if then.

I am sure that the head has never been off before. Certainly not for a very, very long time. I can't help wondering how it would have run if I had taken some of my less caring and more eager friends advice and just changed the oil and started it up?

Mal, Happy Australia Day, I will be watching the Aussies beat the Poms in the one day match at Adelaide (on TV). That is cricket that we are talking about.

Bernie J.