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My next project? 1921 Packard Coupe.


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Guest Indianfour

Sir: My 1927 Jordan Great Line Eight Victoria sedan has the same compartment in the rear seat area! I figured it was for your drinking supplies for the evening!! Indian Four

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Hello again.

Something that you may be able to assist me with is a pair of touring body door latches. Not necessarily Packard but typical early 1920s. I am looking for the type that mounts close to the top of the door with a cranked lever that operates through a slot in the interior door trim. Similar to the one photographed. Preferably either usable or restorable condition. Alternatively one matching that shown but to suit opposite side.

Thank you

Bernie J.

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Well! Yesterday was something of a write-off as we had local (Australian) Oakland gurus John Felder and Hugh Venables bring their house guests to visit. This gave us a great opportunity to renew the acquaintance we made in Louisville (remember Louisville) with Oakland-Pontiac people John & Candy Armstrong visiting from Lancaster, Ohio and Fred & Marilyn Lewis from Marissa IL. What a pleasant way to spend an afternoon. No work on the Packard but lots of talk. Somehow I think that this is what the "Old car" world is really all about. It is a real pleasure for Helen and I to be able to repay some of the hospitality that we enjoy during our holidays.

Cheers!

Bernie J.

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Hi Jeff

Thanks for the suggestion. I think that the whole question of the origin of the body has been resolved with the discovery of the Packard body style number 222 being found on various pieces of timber in the doors and trunk lid. It seems undoubtedly that it was originally a standard Packard Doctor's Coupe.

Having got this far work is still progressing, The four fenders and the hood etc all going to the sand blasters this morning.

Bernie J.

Please don't forget that I am still looking for a spare 23 inch Packard disc wheel with lock rim. some instruments, in particular the (Waltham) Speedo & Clock and the hand controls from the center of the steering wheel to name just a few.

Edited by oldcar (see edit history)
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Bernie..... If possible post some photos of what you need ..... I'll be at hershey and don't have anything on my want list, I'll be happy to look through the Packard Guy's stuff for you. Ed

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Hello Edinmass

That sounds like an offer I cannot refuse, Thank you!

Attached is a photograph of the Speedometer/clock assembly. This taken from the owners hand book but it gives you the idea. If you trip over an (60 psi) Oil pressure gauge and an amp meter either loose as an assembly they could save me a lot of time/trouble. I am also looking for a 23 inch disc wheel complete with lock rim. Finally if you see the "Packard" script as mounted on the Radiator I will eventually need one.

Once again thank you for your very generous offer. I will send you my e-mail address and phone number so if you find some thing and wish to communicate direct with me.

Regards

Bernie J

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Wow! Winter has returned to Melbourne with some really nasty cold wind days so work has slowed just a tad. The Packard is just too big for my single car garage/workshop so I am working in the carport open to the worst of the weather. None the less I should have the rear panel ready to remove soon but first Being a dutiful grand parent we are off to Adelaide, South Australia, for a few days helping to our ninth grandchild celebrate her first birthday.

Bernie J

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  • 2 weeks later...

Our Long weekend away was great fun our youngest grand-daughter is quite a lady. we have not seen her since she was just two weeks old.

But enough doddering! I have just returned from my radiator man. The honeycomb core will have to be replaced as prior to forcing silicone adhesive into two or three areas one of the previous owners had had a real good go at "fixing" some leaks. Despite trying several different solvents it appears impossible to remove ALL the silicone and even if that was successful it would still be extremely doubtful if satisfactory repairs could be carried out.

I am told that there is a reliable supplier of new honeycomb radiator cores in New Zealand. It just costs money!

Bernie J

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Bernie,

Good to see you're making progress with the Packard. And I feel a little closer to you after an event last weekend, something about 6 degrees of separation? The 2010 PACA National Rally was centered on Kangaroo Island, South Australia. For the return trip from Penneshaw on K.I. to Australia there were about 20 Packards on board an afternoon ferry and your son and his family also happened to be aboard. I believe he rang to tell you about the Packard presence whereupon you asked him to see if DavidM was among the Packard people present. And he was! There were actually two ferry sailings that day returning Packards to the mainland so you were lucky DavidM wasn't on board the morning Packard sailing. Pic is DavidM and his recently restored '29 633 Limo about to disembark at Victor Harbour.

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Edited by Ozstatman
spelling correction (see edit history)
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While some people can wander around the countryside others are hard at work. Although As Heather Moss can confirm we did take a few days to catch up with the same son in Adelaide to assist in his 40th Birthday and his daughter's (our 9th Grandchild) First.

Sorry that we missed out on seeing you all but you seemed to always be going to where we had just left or something like that.

Meanwhile with second son Steve's assistance great things are happening to the Packard. as you can see in the attached pic that I have not been sleeping.

Virtually all the original timber in the body frame has been retained and every joint taken apart re-glued and screwed back together. Lowering the waist line is virtually completed and has been an extremely successful operation.

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Edited by oldcar (see edit history)
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Thanks Mal

We look forward to the day, still some time away, that we can join you on some club runs.

I am really pleased with the instant improvement in the body "line" with the new lower waist. The next step is to make some new brackets to stiffen up the door pillars then the frame can be removed and work started on removing all the mechanicals. Only then the frame can be sand blasted and painted before starting to put it all back together again.

Bernie J.

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Bernie

I was keeping my eye out for a speedo/clock for you at Hershey. Didn't find one for sale, but I did learn the exact same clock was used in Lincolns and Buicks of the same time period. Take a look at the Lincoln for sale in the For Sale section by MotoringIcons.

http://forums.aaca.org/f119/1926-lincoln-dietrich-berline-289296.html

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Hi West

Many thanks for taking the time to look for me.

I believe that I may now have the clock, speedo and small gauges all under control. I am just waiting on the confirmation of the availability and condition of a wheel and the hand controls. I am also waiting to hear some more regarding a pair of door latches.

Meanwhile work goes on at an almost daily rate.

Regards

Bernie J.

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Little or no work today. The weather forecast is for high winds, heavy rain and snow on the nearby hills. For those still enjoying an Indian Summer in the USA this is supposed to be Spring in Australia. We have a saying here in Melbourne, "If you don't like the weather, wait until after lunch! It should have changed at least twice by then!"

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Despite the weather here is the latest progress photograph. The modifications to the timber frame are now virtually complete and all joints re-glued & freshly screwed, I was lucky enough to find a box of new slot head screws hidden away on a shelf in my chaotic workshop/garage. If you look closely you will see where the trunk floor has been extended out to form the base for an "occasional" rear seat/parcel shelf.

Bernie J.

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Edited by oldcar (see edit history)
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Thanks West

The question is how many of the 23/4 Packards actually left the factory fitted with disc wheels. Certainly the bulk of the cars seem to have been fitted with wooden spoke wheels.

So far, of all the people who look at this thread and have read my advertisements in a wide variety of magazines around the world, only one has said yes he has a wheel.

It has a minor rust problem. How bad I will not know until it arrives in my letter box.

Bernie J.

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Guest 1928Packard526

Bernie J. —

I make no claim to be an expert on automotive lore but a quick check of Kimes Packard book, (in the specifications section), shows disc wheels as an option beginning in '22. These appear from all photo evidence I can find to be of the 5 lug variety. By '24 offered discs had acquired a sixth lug. These appear in all later photos. For '28 this was boosted to 8 lugs. In 1922-23 disc wheels were offered as standard on "sport" models, whatever that meant.

The book does show pictures of some oddities that cast some doubt on just what sort of wheels could be found on Packards of any year. A single Six Model 233 is shown on page 247 as featuring optional disc wheels that appear to be essentially "lugless" and riveted to to the hubs These wheels appear to be a two part assembly with demountable rims, as best as I can tell.

There is another photo of a highly "restored" 1920 Twin Six Town Car showing 5 lug discs with very strange demountable rims, (pg 210).

Your work is of the best and I am sure your Packard will be no exception.

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The disc wheels on the car in the picture are earlier, with the rims that remove from the discs. The photos of 1923-24 Packards on PackardInfo.com shows the difference quite well.

The first photo here shows the five-lug wheel of 1923 and the second shows the removable rim of 1922.

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Edited by West Peterson (see edit history)
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Thank you West.

That tends to confirm my thinking that the five lug 23 inch disc wheels were ONLY available for the 1923 season

I may be slightly obsessive but I do like to fully research the history of all my restoration project cars. I find it fascinating! I like to know exactly what the car was/is.

MY next question is what color the "six" engine cylinder block and head were painted in 1923.

I want this Packard to be even better than the Dixie Flyer.

My present thinking is that the main color scheme for the car will be Dark Chocolate and Caramel with either a sand colored or salt & pepper top and a beige (leather) and dark brown (carpet) interior.

About 30 years ago, I ran a small business making Salt and Pepper cloth for auto tops and may just have enough material (put away for a rainy day) to do the job.

Bernie J.

Edited by oldcar (see edit history)
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Hi All

Just a quick up-date, Spent yesterday removing brake rods etc in preparation to lifting the body frame off the Chassis. This to give clear access to some of the holding down bolts. Attached is a photograph of the brake rod clevis pins. I think that for an 87 year old car the condition of these normally high wear parts is remarkable. Those from the hand brake rods show no wear at all while those from the foot brake show only slight wear. This I believe confirms my initial belief that the car has done very little work considering its age.

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Good News! I have just sent off the money to one of my good AACA/Packard friends in the US for a full set of instruments including a clock, one of those impossible to find 23 inch five bolt wheels and to another fan of the AACA Forum for a pair of door latches.

Now let us see if someone can turn up a set of hand controls for the centre of the steering wheel. Photograph attached.

My heartfelt thanks to those good citizens who have gone that extra mile!

Bernie J.

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Another step forward. As mentioned "indian 4" has found a matching pair of door latches that will do the job on the Packard doors. I will just have to wait until that Pony Express rider canters up to the letter box. Meanwhile they are one more item I can cross off my shopping list. The petrol tank has come back from the sand blaster with just two small pin holes to be repaired before it can be painted and safely stored away with a tick against it on the list.

Bernie J.

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Guest 1928Packard526

Bernie J. —

I don't know for certain if the engine color for your six is consistent with what I have seen used on other Packard sixes of the era but the color my engine was originally matches what appears in the picture below. I repainted my engine in the late '70s with an engine paint purchased from a long forgotten source. It matched the existing color perfectly, (I'm a terrible record keeper). Since then I have bought paint for touch-up from Bill Hirsch and it is not a good match at all. It was billed as Packard Green Hi-temp, Hi-gloss Engine Enamel 1915-1947, 5670-5190 Batch#26561. It appears to be too light in color for touch up use, but would work OK as an original full repaint, as the shade is close.

Hope this helps,

Pete P.

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If someone is selling a single formula paint for Packard engines that stretch from 1915 to 1947, that just can't be. I read that the shade of green changed around WWII because they had to remove the chrome yellow pigment, so the resulting color for later cars would lean more toward a slightly blue shade as opposed to the warmer yellow shade.

Has anyone else heard or read about the reason for the color changes? I'm sure other companies that were painting their engines the same type of color must have had the same changes, such as Cadillac????

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Guest 1928Packard526

West —

Your last would explain the mis-match in color I am seeing in the engine enamels. My later paint would a bit "brighter" as it probably matches a paint once again containing the chrome yellow pigment. Puzzling to me then is that my original paint color is of the darker shade. I am fairly certain of original color because I found bits of it still clinging to the block when I blasted it clean in getting ready for a repaint in the 70's. It could be of course that I was actually doing the second repaint, but I consider that a remote possibility. Is the darker shade possibly the result of color change over time under the influence of engine heat?

Later,

Pete P.

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Guest donald ellis

Hi: I have a 1923 Packard 126 closed car. There are many fewer closed cars than tourings and thus interior parts are harder to find. Do you have a source for parts? Donald

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Hi Donald

Are you looking for parts or offering something. My car is being rebuilt as a soft top "Convertible Coupe". When I bought it the roof had already been "chopped off" and the interior completely stripped out. If you are looking for a possible source of interior trim parts I may be able to suggest a possible source if you send me an e-mail.

Bernie J.

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I have received a engine enamel color chip from David Mc Credie Secretary of the PAC here in Australia. It appears to be a much darker green than that shown in the photograph of your engine.

On a different subject, while visiting our son Steve at Yarra Junction, an hours drive out of Melbourne. At his suggestion I visited the local hardware shop. I came away with a $5 box of 200 SLOT HEAD 1 inch wood screws. Now when I come to replace the panels on the Packard they can be screwed back on with the "right" screws. I also got 100 Nickel plated "raised head" to screw in the interior trim.

I really hate Phillips head screws in 1920s cars and avoid them when ever I can so this was a real find.

Bernie J.

Edited by oldcar (see edit history)
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Thanks Dave

I have sent you an e-mail in reply explaining my position and why I am unable to take on any more project material.

My car is extremely complete mechanically but is missing mainly cosmetic parts. Little things like a dash lamp and a cigar lighter that people always seem to take as souvenirs and then put away in a box on their bookshelves or amongst a collection of junk somewhere worse.

Bernie J

Edited by oldcar (see edit history)
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Guest donald ellis

Bernie:

The Packard green for engine and running gear fades to that lighter shade. If it is any help, I discovered back in the 60's that Volvo PV 444 engine paint was the self-same formula... Dark olive green. Donald

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Thanks Donald

That makes sense, Dark Olive Green would best describe the color David McCredie sent to me. Right now I am busy giving the timber body frame a coat of Earle's Timber Hardener a local (Australian) product that I suspect is very similar to edinmass's Kwik-poly". either way it seems to be making a difference. At Aust $49 per litre I hope that it does something.

Bernie J.

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